I thought he played well, besides the own goal in the 2nd half I don't see what he did wrong. People were discrediting him for doing stuff given space because it's merely "expected" of him, even though every other midfielder besides Jorginho couldn't do the same. Nobody copes with pressure better than Kovacic in this side, he should be starting games. 

Gol15 must be fuming watching Kovacic yesterday

9 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Gol15 must be fuming watching Kovacic yesterday

In the 2nd half he was nodding and shouting SEE, SEE !

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

I thought he played well, besides the own goal in the 2nd half I don't see what he did wrong. People were discrediting him for doing stuff given space because it's merely "expected" of him, even though every other midfielder besides Jorginho couldn't do the same. Nobody copes with pressure better than Kovacic in this side, he should be starting games. 

He was by far our best player yesterday. He was poor in the 2nd half, but so was everybody else. That was more of an issue with the team overall than any individual performance. He should never have been dropped from the first team, he was our most in form player. The worrying thing now is that by dropping him, Lampard may have just ruined his momentum.

18 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

He was by far our best player yesterday. He was poor in the 2nd half, but so was everybody else. That was more of an issue with the team overall than any individual performance. He should never have been dropped from the first team, he was our most in form player. The worrying thing now is that by dropping him, Lampard may have just ruined his momentum.

Not having a pop at you Scott, but I think those sort of claims are laughable.

I rate Kovacic, but I do also think be can be a bit up & down form wise (seems to be the case with our whole squad). Don't think it's so much as dropped but more a case of rotation. Yes, players and a team can  gain momentum if you stick to the same line-up but then you also run the risk of fatigue (especially in the winter) and complacency. In the modern game, players have to expect rotation (look at City with the likes of Silva, Aguerro and KDB all getting left out). Really it should keep them on their toes and 100% focused as if they miss a game then get selected next, they know they have to play well.

 

42 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Gol15 must be fuming watching Kovacic yesterday

I bet he was pounding furiously in the first half then had an euphoric release when Kovacic made the own goal

5 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Not having a pop at you Scott, but I think those sort of claims are laughable.

I rate Kovacic, but I do also think be can be a bit up & down form wise (seems to be the case with our whole squad). Don't think it's so much as dropped but more a case of rotation. Yes, players and a team can  gain momentum if you stick to the same line-up but then you also run the risk of fatigue (especially in the winter) and complacency. In the modern game, players have to expect rotation (look at City with the likes of Silva, Aguerro and KDB all getting left out). Really it should keep them on their toes and 100% focused as if they miss a game then get selected next, they know they have to play well.

 

I don't think it was rotation though. When you rotate a player, it's usually a case of being out of the team for one game and straight back in the team the next game. Kovacic didn't start for 3 league games in a row, that for me says he was dropped. His only league start in January has been against Arsenal, his only other starts have been the two F.A cup games against Championship teams. When you're in such good form, you don't miss that many games in a row, it almost always has a negative affect on a players momentum.

19 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Not having a pop at you Scott, but I think those sort of claims are laughable.

I rate Kovacic, but I do also think be can be a bit up & down form wise (seems to be the case with our whole squad). Don't think it's so much as dropped but more a case of rotation. Yes, players and a team can  gain momentum if you stick to the same line-up but then you also run the risk of fatigue (especially in the winter) and complacency. In the modern game, players have to expect rotation (look at City with the likes of Silva, Aguerro and KDB all getting left out). Really it should keep them on their toes and 100% focused as if they miss a game then get selected next, they know they have to play well.

Scott may have overstated it yet since he was dropped against Bournemouth and Southampton he looked a lot less effective, I think before he was dropped he had even scored in two games. 

57 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Gol15 must be fuming watching Kovacic yesterday

I'm certain he got the hand soap out when he conceded that own goal though.

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by Slojo

1 hour ago, coco said:

In the 2nd half he was nodding and shouting SEE, SEE !

A step further in fact: SELL! SELL!

4 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

The ball to Dave in the first half, that led to our goal, was sublime. Very few players in the world can hit a pass that well. It was hit flat, with pace, over a large amount of ground. Dave didn't have to break stride nor did he have to pluck it out of the air. It was the speed of the delivery that makes it such a special pass.

Modrić academy 

On 25/01/2020 at 19:32, coco said:

The space Hull have given him i would be pissed off if he didnt play well.

1 hour ago, coco said:

In the 2nd half he was nodding and shouting SEE, SEE !

 

On 25/01/2020 at 20:09, Gol15 said:

Kovacic has been sh*t whole second half such a bi-polar performance...

Can't dominate Hull as soon as someone pressures him?  Has a lot to learn from Jorginho that's for sure...

Can't dominate Hull as soon as someone pressures him?  Has a lot to learn from Jorginho that's for sure...

Appears to me he has. Jorginho also can't dominate when he is put under pressure. Not just this season but all of last as well. Every team worth their salt knows you just need to put a man on Jorghino and his contribution to the game collapses.

On 24/01/2020 at 23:55, Dean said:

Yeah, agree. And I actually thought, against the consensus, that he was our best midfielder vs arsenal and shouldn’t have been subbed. He didn’t have a blinder by any means but moved the ball well and showed glimpses of what he’s capable of (those quick feet in one instance). He seemed annoyed about being subbed too.

 

Agree with this. I thought he played well against Arsenal and showed glimpses of his class. I was amazed when Frank subbed him because we were on top from the moment Frank took off Emerson and changed formation. Having said that, Frank was completely vindicated because we scored two late goals. Sadly that meant Kovacic sat out the next few games and we suffered as a consequence in my opinion. Sure, he came on against Brighton and wasn't his best, but for me he's a starter all day long.

49 minutes ago, loz said:

56 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Can't dominate Hull as soon as someone pressures him?  Has a lot to learn from Jorginho that's for sure...

Appears to me he has. Jorginho also can't dominate when he is put under pressure. Not just this season but all of last as well. Every team worth their salt knows you just need to put a man on Jorghino and his contribution to the game collapses.

And why do you think Jorginho played so well next to Kovacic? You can't mark both out of the game. 

Just now, Slojo said:

And why do you think Jorginho played so well next to Kovacic? You can't mark both out of the game. 

Exactly, Kovacic moves into areas to help Jorginho out they have a good understanding.

Just now, Strider6003 said:

Exactly, Kovacic moves into areas to help Jorginho out they have a good understanding.

Remember our goal against City? Jorginho and Kovacic's combination that lead to that goal was excellent, that's what they were doing all season. 

Jorginho made Kovacic look good. That much is obvious when Jorginho does most of the job. Cmon Hull is not even close to a good team, they put whoever on Kovacic and he was out of the game for 45 minutes. I don't even blame him for the goal Hull deserved a goal anyway but the performance was bi-polar and Coco knew it would happen.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho made Kovacic look good. That much is obvious when Jorginho does most of the job. Cmon Hull is not even close to a good team, they put whoever on Kovacic and he was out of the game for 45 minutes. I don't even blame him for the goal Hull deserved a goal anyway but the performance was bi-polar and Coco knew it would happen.

I had to create acc here.. You are talking about Jorghino like he is the best CM in the world... But he is not even in top 10.. Yes he is good (great) player but far from complete midfielder. What Jorg can do that Kova cant?

Edited January 26, 20206 yr by Dbstf0222

1 minute ago, Dbstf0222 said:

I had to create acc here.. You are talkig about Jorghino like he is the best CM in the world... But he is not even in top 10.. Yes he is good (great) player but far from complete midfielder. What Jorg can do that Kova cant?

I think Jorginho has better vision, long range passing, reads the game better and is exceptional at organising the side. Kovacic isn't much worse worse in those aspects, but he is better at dribbling, ball retention, has a better engine and can cover more ground which allows him to be better at going forward. Something Kovacic has massively improved on this season is going forward, something he was pretty poor at last season. 

They're both really good players with their strengths and weaknesses. Same with Kante, Kante's performances against Liverpool in both games were superb, at breaking up play he's like no other and he can be dangerous going forward. The problem is, is that when we have the majority of the ball in the oppositions half he doesn't play well, his attacking aspects are nullified so all he can do is linger up the pitch. His distribution is a lot worse than Kova's and Jorginho's. 

The hardest part about Lampard's system for me is fitting Kante into it, with Jorginho and Kovacic we've seen good performances, they have a good partnership. Yes of course, they have defensive limitations, but against low block sides we can risk it if we manage to score more goals, which we were doing with them two in the middle orchestrating everything. With Kante in the mix it hasn't worked against those sides, and I honestly don't think it ever will, Kante will have to adapt and change his style because I'm really not sure what Kante is doing lately, what role he's playing, it doesn't seem like box to box to me, a few good recovery runs then 90% of it he's playing in the oppositions box. 

There's your logical answer, don't expect one from Gol15, he'll probably just tell you Kovacic is a fraud and Jorginho and Kante make him look good and blah blah blah. 

12 minutes ago, Dbstf0222 said:

I had to create acc here.. You are talking about Jorghino like he is the best CM in the world... But he is not even in top 10.. Yes he is good (great) player but far from complete midfielder. What Jorg can do that Kova cant?

At least I'm doing something right here, welcome mate!

Jorginho can't dribble like Kovacic but he influences the game at a much higher level. When Kovacic learns how to shoot more often we can talk about his game improving.

23 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I think Jorginho has better vision, long range passing, reads the game better and is exceptional at organising the side. Kovacic isn't much worse worse in those aspects, but he is better at dribbling, ball retention, has a better engine and can cover more ground which allows him to be better at going forward. Something Kovacic has massively improved on this season is going forward, something he was pretty poor at last season. 

They're both really good players with their strengths and weaknesses. Same with Kante, Kante's performances against Liverpool in both games were superb, at breaking up play he's like no other and he can be dangerous going forward. The problem is, is that when we have the majority of the ball in the oppositions half he doesn't play well, his attacking aspects are nullified so all he can do is linger up the pitch. His distribution is a lot worse than Kova's and Jorginho's. 

The hardest part about Lampard's system for me is fitting Kante into it, with Jorginho and Kovacic we've seen good performances, they have a good partnership. Yes of course, they have defensive limitations, but against low block sides we can risk it if we manage to score more goals, which we were doing with them two in the middle orchestrating everything. With Kante in the mix it hasn't worked against those sides, and I honestly don't think it ever will, Kante will have to adapt and change his style because I'm really not sure what Kante is doing lately, what role he's playing, it doesn't seem like box to box to me, a few good recovery runs then 90% of it he's playing in the oppositions box. 

There's your logical answer, don't expect one from Gol15, he'll probably just tell you Kovacic is a fraud and Jorginho and Kante make him look good and blah blah blah. 

I still preffer Kova-Jorgi mid then anything with Kante. Yes we were bad in defensive part of the game but in those times we played some, if not the most, attractive attacking football IMO. If Lampard wanna play direct attacking football (like he told at the beggining of the season) there is no room for Kante in first team. But he could be tactical subb for one of midfielders when you need to defend the lead.. And rotation ofc. My two cents. 

Cannot for the life of me fathom why he's been dropped.

7 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Cannot for the life of me fathom why he's been dropped.

Sarcasm or genuinely curious ? 

58 minutes ago, brownindian said:

Sarcasm or genuinely curious ? 

Why would it be sarcasm? He's been our best player this season. Apart from long range passing not sure why Lampard put Jorginho ahead of Kovacic.