Tickles me how people see players differently.  I was at the annual awards when Willian won player of the year AND players player of the year.

If some posters in here had their way, he wouldn't even have been invited to the dinner.

2 hours ago, Vagabond said:

"Calling you out". lol. Relax a little, I'm just joking around and can't wait for the season to start again.

I'm not gonna lie though, it's funny that you refuse to answer the question wether you still consider Kova an average player and dribbling merchant and how hard you're trying to make it about Tammy instead.

I was mentioned in a conversation just because I have a different opinion. I don't do that to others at all. Are you asking me what I think about Kovacic or who I see as the most important player for us this season so far? Make up your mind please.

53 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

The year Kante won our POTY he didn't have the most goals or MOTM awards. Should Costa have won it instead of Kante? 

Or do goals and MOTM only matter when a player is rivaling Kovacic?

Kante had some crazy numbers of interceptions in total and tackles which are defensive stats in comparison to goals of Costa so two different parts of the game were compared and it was decided that the defensive effort of Kante outweighted the offensive contribution of Costa.

If you think that Tammy's goals and assists and man of the match awards are not a bigger factor than dribbles per game or take-ons that's just your opinion which differs from mine, if Kova had some end product to his game maybe I would think that he's better than De Bruyne just like you guys do.

For me it was Tammy all along I only consider Mount as his partner in attack as someone that is close as they are our best attacking duo ( Pulisic would be there most likley but due to injury he isn't IMO).

You are trying to compare apples and oranges and even if someone thinks that Costa should have won the award that year I don't see it as a crime, he scored a lot of goals...

33 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I was mentioned in a conversation just because I have a different opinion. I don't do that to others at all. Are you asking me what I think about Kovacic or who I see as the most important player for us this season so far? Make up your mind please.

"Depends on where you would put Kova in your personal ranking. Still just an average dribbling merchant?"

"You didn't answer my question at all and more or less responded to your own post"

"you refuse to answer the question wether you still consider Kova an average player and dribbling merchant"

Shall I send you a carrier pigeon or a notarized letter? A telegram or fax maybe?

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Kante had some crazy numbers of interceptions in total and tackles which are defensive stats in comparison to goals of Costa so two different parts of the game were compared and it was decided that the defensive effort of Kante outweighted the offensive contribution of Costa.

If you think that Tammy's goals and assists and man of the match awards are not a bigger factor than dribbles per game or take-ons that's just your opinion which differs from mine, if Kova had some end product to his game maybe I would think that he's better than De Bruyne just like you guys do.

For me it was Tammy all along I only consider Mount as his partner in attack as someone that is close as they are our best attacking duo ( Pulisic would be there most likley but due to injury he isn't IMO).

You are trying to compare apples and oranges and even if someone thinks that Costa should have won the award that year I don't see it as a crime, he scored a lot of goals...

I think Kova, Gilmour, and Mount in Midfield, Kante seems to have lost his way, he is nowhere near the player at Left side of midfield, And Frank seems to want 'Footballers' so maybe cah in on Jorginho, and kante,and purchase, a new CB, with RLC coming back we are stacked in the midfield areas.

12 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

"Depends on where you would put Kova in your personal ranking. Still just an average dribbling merchant?"

"You didn't answer my question at all and more or less responded to your own post"

"you refuse to answer the question wether you still consider Kova an average player and dribbling merchant"

Shall I send you a carrier pigeon or a notarized letter? A telegram or fax maybe?

I think he's great running with the ball and in tight spaces, the best in the squad when it comes to that. Even before he came I posted that he knows how to play but lacks speed to be a winger and lacks shooting to be an attacking midfielder which is why it has been hard for him to be a regular in Madrid, coaches couldn't find a special role for him. This was my opinion more than a year ago. Under Lampard he looks better than under Sarri and he has finally found his place, Gilmour and him should have a good future together as Kovacic hasn't entered his prime years so we are still to see him at his best (27-29) and with Lampard I believe that he can start scoring more next season, Lampard will encourage him to shoot more, he already did it so next season should be the one where Kova will have amazing stats, for example one of the cleanest strikes this season was his goal vs Valencia and next season he just might score 10 goals.

My opinion is different from the majority of you that consider Kova being the best midfielder in the league and one of the best that ever played or whatever...But I give credits where it's due.

23 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

My opinion is different from the majority of you that consider Kova one of the best that ever played or whatever...

I'm 100% sure no one thinks that!

One thing Kovacic lack is effectiveness. He glides past 3 players without any difficulty but after that he loses directness and/or a mate who is in the same wavelength. It can be very frustrating to feel something special happens and all of a sudden it stops. His gaffer was the absolute opposite. Frank never looked like that silky thing but second later we celebrated a goal. Maybe a bit stupid to compare the two but in general we need more productivity of the super-talent he is.

15 hours ago, Argo said:

I'm 100% sure no one thinks that!

Always nice when someone uses a straw man when they are making a fool of themselves. Literally no one has ever said they think hes the best player ever.

He's a quality player, but I don't think we should be judging him on goals and assists. He dribbles past people excellently and holds onto the ball very well. If he could just be a bit more direct in the middle of the pitch and pick out some better passes to the more attacking players, then he'd be one of the best in the world

18 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think he's great running with the ball and in tight spaces, the best in the squad when it comes to that. Even before he came I posted that he knows how to play but lacks speed to be a winger and lacks shooting to be an attacking midfielder which is why it has been hard for him to be a regular in Madrid, coaches couldn't find a special role for him. This was my opinion more than a year ago. Under Lampard he looks better than under Sarri and he has finally found his place, Gilmour and him should have a good future together as Kovacic hasn't entered his prime years so we are still to see him at his best (27-29) and with Lampard I believe that he can start scoring more next season, Lampard will encourage him to shoot more, he already did it so next season should be the one where Kova will have amazing stats, for example one of the cleanest strikes this season was his goal vs Valencia and next season he just might score 10 goals.

My opinion is different from the majority of you that consider Kova being the best midfielder in the league and one of the best that ever played or whatever...But I give credits where it's due.

Fair enough. I will admit that except for the strawman at the end this is an excellent response. Thank you.

21 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Tickles me how people see players differently.  I was at the annual awards when Willian won player of the year AND players player of the year.

If some posters in here had their way, he wouldn't even have been invited to the dinner.

He was good at one point, now he's sh*t.

Not exactly rocket science

12 minutes ago, driller97 said:

He was good at one point, now he's sh*t.

Not exactly rocket science

Yeah, sh*t, right.

Muppet

11 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Yeah, sh*t, right.

Muppet

He is in my (and many others) opinion. His time here has run its course, best thing for him to do is leave.

Pedro is another who's time is up here, and I have nothing but respect for him. Never whined, never complained, just trained hard and came good when we needed him. Willian on the other hand is like a spoilt brat and nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

 

Also, are there any mods here who can have a word with Yorkie here about name calling for no reason? No need for the M word just because someone states an opinion? @Mod Stark

Edited June 19, 20206 yr by driller97

34 minutes ago, driller97 said:

He is in my (and many others) opinion. His time here has run its course, best thing for him to do is leave.

Pedro is another who's time is up here, and I have nothing but respect for him. Never whined, never complained, just trained hard and came good when we needed him. Willian on the other hand is like a spoilt brat and nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

 

Also, are there any mods here who can have a word with Yorkie here about name calling for no reason? No need for the M word just because someone states an opinion? @Mod Stark

Thats a massive statement about how players are perceived though, Willian isn't and has never been sh*t, he may be infuriating at times and he is as good as he thinks he is dozens of national and international managers would agree. Now just because he "seems" to have a bit of a grump on when playing compared to Pedro who always seems happy is purely a judgement call. 

Both have been very good servants to the club and both have had good and bad times and both have come to the end of their usefulness to us 

 

Should have added that I wish them both well (unless one goes to Spurs) 

Edited June 19, 20206 yr by Bonzodog29

1 hour ago, driller97 said:

Also, are there any mods here who can have a word with Yorkie here about name calling for no reason? No need for the M word just because someone states an opinion? @Mod Stark

If you post stupid stuff like a muppet, then those of us who have a reasoning mind will identify that and call you out.  However, as you appear to be faux-offended by the use of the M-word, I apologise unreservedly for using it, and retract that calumny on the world of Henson's Workshops greatest creations.

But then how to categorise a band-wagon-jumping display of quite a poor knowledge of which footballers are sh*t and which aren't.  

How about the C-word?

 

Clown.

 

Is that better?

OK, question from a non-native English speaker: was muppet a derogatory word before The Muppet Show, or has it become one since? Where is Moi when you need her....

2 minutes ago, Valerie said:

OK, question from a non-native English speaker: was muppet a derogatory word before The Muppet Show, or has it become one since? Where is Moi when you need her....

Purely from the Muppet Show, and I think originally one of the puppets that displayed quite staggering stupidity.

The 'M' word... @yorkleyblue how could you?

I hope driller97 will be ok.

 

Me too.  I was rather harsh.

53 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

Thats a massive statement about how players are perceived though, Willian isn't and has never been sh*t, he may be infuriating at times and he is as good as he thinks he is dozens of national and international managers would agree. Now just because he "seems" to have a bit of a grump on when playing compared to Pedro who always seems happy is purely a judgement call. 

Both have been very good servants to the club and both have had good and bad times and both have come to the end of their usefulness to us 

 

Should have added that I wish them both well (unless one goes to Spurs) 

The thing i find the most infruriating with Willian in my eyes isn't him, it is the lack of middle ground in general opinion, he's either rated amazing or a donkey by the majority when the reality is very much in between. I partly think he's overrated because some rated him above Pedro (the Spaniard was always my preference when the form between both were similar, an opinion both Conte and Sarri shared) but i also partly think underrated because some genuinely talk about him like he's a flop (he wouldn't have survived 7 years with the option to turn it into 9 if he was). 

I've never been accused of hating and fanboying a player so simultaneously in my life.

12 minutes ago, Argo said:

The thing i find the most infruriating with Willian in my eyes isn't him, it is the lack of middle ground in general opinion, he's either rated amazing or a donkey by the majority when the reality is very much in between. I partly think he's overrated because some rated him above Pedro (the Spaniard was always my preference when the form between both were similar, an opinion both Conte and Sarri shared) but i also partly think underrated because some genuinely talk about him like he's a flop (he wouldn't have survived 7 years with the option to turn it into 9 if he was). 

I've never been accused of hating and fanboying a player so simultaneously in my life.

Ive always thought this of WiIlian, He`s nowhere near as bad as some of our fans claim, but he`s not as good as we wish he was. He` s such a polarising player but he`s one I think were better with in the team than without. Strangely he`s the one player other than Hazard that my mates who support other teams always claim as our best player and one they wish their teams had signed.

Willian is a legend, he showed up in many big games. The only thing I didn't like about him was when he was acting immaturely when Conte didn't put him in the starting lineup.

Just now, Gol15 said:

Willian is a legend, he showed up in many big games. The only thing I didn't like about him was when he was acting immaturely when Conte didn't put him in the starting lineup.

Not even I think Willian is a legend.  Have a word with yourself.

I know this is getting off topic, but as my final statement on Willian - I never said he was always a sh*t player, its just in recent seasons in the vast majority of games he has been poor. When he was first with us, he was very good and at one point even one of our best players. He was very good at set pieces as well, but lately its just not there.

I do agree with people that he's oddly overrated by some and also underrated by others, but he rarely puts in a good performance now. Whats even weirder is that he'll have 5 really bad games in a row, then al of a sudden come out with a 8/10 performance. I just think his time has come, especially with Werner coming in, potentially Havertz and Pulisic/CHO who are younger and hungrier than he as well.