28 minutes ago, enigma said:

How much would Vardy go for? 

He’s 31 and is best making runs in behind defences. Most teams sit back against us. 

Hearing people not wanting a stop gap signing, and still suggesting Arnautovic and Mitrovic, is quite baffling to me. The former has struggled with attitude up until the last season and is no profilic goal getter, and the latter has admitted that Rafa Benitez' style didn't get the best out of him, because he had to run and press from the front.

A striker purchase will come with a risk. Belotti has only produced for one season, and although I like him as a player there's nothing certain there. Werner, who has a metric ton of potential, struggles with hyper sensitivity, and wears ear plugs to not get affected by the sound on the stadiums. Icardi is seems very good (haven't seen enough of him personally), but will cost 100+ million and seems (not least his wife, the boss, does) settled in Milan.

Don't get me wrong, Giroud and Morata aren't good enough, and I have little to no faith in Batshuayi for a premier club like us, but just as Morata came with a risk, so will our next striker. Sarri made Mertens into a top drawer striker, and I have never rated Mertens at all. Before splashing out on another striker who may or may not succeed, I would try Hazard or Pedro or maybe even Hudson Odoi as a false 9 (read: not a Conte number 9).

A sploosh, or a stop gap signing, in January is something I have no faith in, that's for certain.

We first need to sell Morata, I think. Sarri did say that we need a year to reach the level of Liverpool so I fully expect nothing to happen this whole season and then he will try to offload as many as he can.

I think a lot here on this site may know I am a big Morata fan, and have thought he will pull this around. BUT man, its getting to that point that I'm not sure he's gonna pull this around. I hate to say it but the man cannot buy a goal. I really liked the way he got himself in position for goals against PAOK and he was there against West Ham - although Hazard should've put a shot on goal instead of trying to set up Morata after he first came in - but his confidence has to be so low and feels like he can't do anything to get a break. I hope he doesn't think like that, but I think he does think that way.

 

With that being said, I'm not sure who we could bring in in January but they need to seriously take a look and see what is available. 

Edited September 24, 20187 yr by chiefBlueCFC

10 hours ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

I think a lot here on this site may know I am a big Morata fan, and have thought he will pull this around. BUT man, its getting to that point that I'm not sure he's gonna pull this around. I hate to say it but the man cannot buy a goal. I really liked the way he got himself in position for goals against PAOK and he was there against West Ham - although Hazard should've put a shot on goal instead of trying to set up Morata after he first came in - but his confidence has to be so low and feels like he can't do anything to get a break. I hope he doesn't think like that, but I think he does think that way.

With that being said, I'm not sure who we could bring in in January but they need to seriously take a look and see what is available. 

Exactly where I'm at too unfortunately. He has got into some great positions recently though, so I'm still hoping he can break the mental block and start scoring again.

11 hours ago, opinionsarelike said:

Hearing people not wanting a stop gap signing, and still suggesting Arnautovic and Mitrovic, is quite baffling to me. The former has struggled with attitude up until the last season and is no profilic goal getter, and the latter has admitted that Rafa Benitez' style didn't get the best out of him, because he had to run and press from the front.

A striker purchase will come with a risk. Belotti has only produced for one season, and although I like him as a player there's nothing certain there. Werner, who has a metric ton of potential, struggles with hyper sensitivity, and wears ear plugs to not get affected by the sound on the stadiums. Icardi is seems very good (haven't seen enough of him personally), but will cost 100+ million and seems (not least his wife, the boss, does) settled in Milan.

Don't get me wrong, Giroud and Morata aren't good enough, and I have little to no faith in Batshuayi for a premier club like us, but just as Morata came with a risk, so will our next striker. Sarri made Mertens into a top drawer striker, and I have never rated Mertens at all. Before splashing out on another striker who may or may not succeed, I would try Hazard or Pedro or maybe even Hudson Odoi as a false 9 (read: not a Conte number 9).

A sploosh, or a stop gap signing, in January is something I have no faith in, that's for certain.

I don't think Mitrovic would be a stop gap signing. He's 24 and playing in a Fulham team that isn't too dissimilar to us by keeping possession and using the striker to bring the wingers into play. Certainly one of the more sensible suggestions. He's a complete different beast to what he was at Newcastle.

12 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I don't think Mitrovic would be a stop gap signing. He's 24 and playing in a Fulham team that isn't too dissimilar to us by keeping possession and using the striker to bring the wingers into play. Certainly one of the more sensible suggestions. He's a complete different beast to what he was at Newcastle.

Could be a good call, He's been backward and forward between Newcastle and fulham for about 15m , if we come knocking guess what.

15 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Belotti is putting in Morata’s numbers in a worse team. Stands to reason that in a better, more consistent team (ie Chelsea) his overall output could/would improve too.

Despite playing for three of the best teams in Europe Morata hasn’t been able to find any kind of consistency when it comes to goal scoring so we’re suggesting players who potentially could.

You can't really use that as a justification though.  I'd probably play better in the Chelsea team than I do in my over 75's walking 5-a-side team.   Doesn't mean  I would be any good  or better.  I am no great fan of Morata's attitude and ability, but some of the nonsense that is being bandied around is just silly.

16 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Could be a good call, He's been backward and forward between Newcastle and fulham for about 15m , if we come knocking guess what.

Perhaps  he found his level at Fulham and Newcastle

26 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Could be a good call, He's been backward and forward between Newcastle and fulham for about 15m , if we come knocking guess what.

No doubt he'd cost us £40m+

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

No doubt he'd cost us £40m+

Without doubt. 

I think Mitrovic has been brilliant this season, but to buy him in January, we would be looking at a fee near of £50M.

And as we know better than anyone, just because a striker has performed well elsewhere, it doesn't mean to say they will produce for us, especially when you throw in the pressure of a heavy price tag and a step up in level & expectation. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by mclovin83

It's crazy that Higuain was available for between 40 and 50 million this summer and we still didn't take the chance to sign him even though Sarri wanted him.

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

You can't really use that as a justification though.  I'd probably play better in the Chelsea team than I do in my over 75's walking 5-a-side team.   Doesn't mean  I would be any good  or better.  I am no great fan of Morata's attitude and ability, but some of the nonsense that is being bandied around is just silly.

So what in particular about my argument that Belotti could be viewed as a January purchase to give us an improved presence up front is it that you take issue with?

We're all discussing who we might be able to bring in to improve on Morata. 

I've suggested a player who in 107 league appearances for a mid table Torino side has scored 50 goals and has 15 assists. 

Can you explain how this is nonsense and to suggest he might be able to replicate or improve upon that form in a better Chelsea team is not justifiable? 

A new striker could bring not only a few more extra goals, but also lift the rest of the attack, we cant let our striker problem demoralise the attack.

Hazard Willian and Pedro should have a predator in front of them, feeding off them around the 6yd box. Mitrovic looks very capable of that task, he's a poacher, something i thought Alvaro would be, but it isn't happening, Giroud is no poacher either.

Keeping Hazard happy, and making sure we get top four will be crucial in our effort to hold onto Eden in 8 months time.

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

So what in particular about my argument that Belotti could be viewed as a January purchase to give us an improved presence up front is it that you take issue with?

We're all discussing who we might be able to bring in to improve on Morata. 

I've suggested a player who in 107 league appearances for a mid table Torino side has scored 50 goals and has 15 assists. 

Can you explain how this is nonsense and to suggest he might be able to replicate or improve upon that form in a better Chelsea team is not justifiable? 

2

For me it's the "improved" bit. I already pointed out why I think your suggestion that Belotti might improve on Morata is questionable. We don't know if Belotti would reproduce his 2016-17 form for us but looking at his career history he seems to be more of 10-15 goals/season striker, so I'd suggest that's unlikely. Your stat of 50 goals in 107 appearances is distorted by his one good goal-scoring season, as you know. If we're going to toss out Morata we really need to be replacing him somebody that we can be confident will actually score goals against teams who will mostly be set up to defend against us.

This is an issue with no really easy solutions.

Of all the conventional strikers I can think of, the only obviously suitable one that I can think of is Icardi and he will cost a pretty penny (plus he's a bit of a tosser). All of the other prolific strikers in the big five leagues are either unavailable, ageing or have issues with movement/touch or adaptability that would make them risky (at best) signings. 

Specifically, I've looked at Belotti and he seems almost like a slower version of Jamie Vardy, in that both work hard and display obvious predatory instincts within the box. That would have allowed him to score many goals for mid-table sides like Torino, but at a club of Chelsea's level you need more from your strikers. His movement is Lukaku/Morata level, his first touch is just OK (IMO worse than Morata's) and his finishing is good but not outstanding. His headers are good, but I'm not convinced that we should pay a high price for him (as would be likely). If Chelsea was a mid-to-upper table side, I would be quite eager to purchase him because he has been most prolific in a 4-3-3 and he could easily be effective in a 4-4-2 ala Vardy. However, we are not. 

Werner is IMO best suited to counter-attacking sides due to his extreme pace. His movement is again not terrific, he's not very strong and he's not a very clinical finisher. 

Arnautovic I don't think is good enough to be anything other than a back-up. 

I would not have Mitrovic as first-choice for a club like Chelsea - his first touch is good, but his movement again isn't anything remarkable. However, he would be a quality second option as a target man and I would be happy if he replaced Giroud. 

I think Sarri would do well to consider using a false 9 instead of a conventional central forward. I think the likes of Fekir, Luis Alberto and maybe even Rodrigo/Kramaric would be worth a look.  You want your false 9 to drop deep, collect the ball, play others in and finish - I believe that all four of these guys can do that (though I'm more enthusiastic about the former two than the latter two). 

Still, maybe Morata will regain his confidence and render this discussion moot. It doesn't look like that will happen though...

 

 

 

All good points being raised.

I haven't watched a lot of Belotti, but would be very wary given his patchy goal scoring record (outside of the Prem).

Out of interest, who would take Mitrovic in a straight swap for Morata in January? 

Be honest now...

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

So what in particular about my argument that Belotti could be viewed as a January purchase to give us an improved presence up front is it that you take issue with?

We're all discussing who we might be able to bring in to improve on Morata. 

I've suggested a player who in 107 league appearances for a mid table Torino side has scored 50 goals and has 15 assists. 

Can you explain how this is nonsense and to suggest he might be able to replicate or improve upon that form in a better Chelsea team is not justifiable? 

Like someone else said, the Belotti stats are "questionable" given one half-way decent season in Italy and  "Your stat of 50 goals in 107 appearances is distorted by his one good goal-scoring season, as you know. "

So, maybe not nonsense so much as an exaggerated over-simplification.  There is nothing to say that a decent run of form two years ago would be recreated in the Premier League for us in January.

As I said, I'm not greatly enamoured of Morata, but swapping him for possibly another Torres scenario, or some other replacement who knocks them in a bit at the Newcastle or Fulham level doesn't seem to me to be the most sensible plan of action and looks a bit knee-jerky.  If we are always going to  be wanting to  spend, spend, spend on the next new shiney-shiney thing, we are always likely to be disappointed.

@DaRick seems to  have done a sensible analysis of the various suggestions

1 hour ago, coco said:

A new striker could bring not only a few more extra goals, but also lift the rest of the attack, we cant let our striker problem demoralise the attack.

Hazard Willian and Pedro should have a predator in front of them, feeding off them around the 6yd box. Mitrovic looks very capable of that task, he's a poacher, something i thought Alvaro would be, but it isn't happening, Giroud is no poacher either.

Keeping Hazard happy, and making sure we get top four will be crucial in our effort to hold onto Eden in 8 months time.

Oh Diego Costa how I miss thee

Exactly where I'm at too unfortunately. He has got into some great positions recently though, so I'm still hoping he can break the mental block and start scoring again.

He won't he's f**king sh*t! After watching the paok game I've finally had enough of the woofter he reminds me of a prozzie spends most of his time on his back moaning!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND another clown pipes up with a reasonable and rational analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of one of our team.

Morata, Giroud, Bats and Abraham are not enough for us now. Pity

2 hours ago, DaRick said:

This is an issue with no really easy solutions.

Of all the conventional strikers I can think of, the only obviously suitable one that I can think of is Icardi and he will cost a pretty penny (plus he's a bit of a tosser). All of the other prolific strikers in the big five leagues are either unavailable, ageing or have issues with movement/touch or adaptability that would make them risky (at best) signings. 

Specifically, I've looked at Belotti and he seems almost like a slower version of Jamie Vardy, in that both work hard and display obvious predatory instincts within the box. That would have allowed him to score many goals for mid-table sides like Torino, but at a club of Chelsea's level you need more from your strikers. His movement is Lukaku/Morata level, his first touch is just OK (IMO worse than Morata's) and his finishing is good but not outstanding. His headers are good, but I'm not convinced that we should pay a high price for him (as would be likely). If Chelsea was a mid-to-upper table side, I would be quite eager to purchase him because he has been most prolific in a 4-3-3 and he could easily be effective in a 4-4-2 ala Vardy. However, we are not. 

Werner is IMO best suited to counter-attacking sides due to his extreme pace. His movement is again not terrific, he's not very strong and he's not a very clinical finisher. 

Arnautovic I don't think is good enough to be anything other than a back-up. 

I would not have Mitrovic as first-choice for a club like Chelsea - his first touch is good, but his movement again isn't anything remarkable. However, he would be a quality second option as a target man and I would be happy if he replaced Giroud. 

I think Sarri would do well to consider using a false 9 instead of a conventional central forward. I think the likes of Fekir, Luis Alberto and maybe even Rodrigo/Kramaric would be worth a look.  You want your false 9 to drop deep, collect the ball, play others in and finish - I believe that all four of these guys can do that (though I'm more enthusiastic about the former two than the latter two). 

Still, maybe Morata will regain his confidence and render this discussion moot. It doesn't look like that will happen though...

To be successful with a false 9 we need wingers either side who will stay high and be willing to make runs behind the defenders. Can't see it working with Hazard wanting to come deep and collect the ball  from LW all the time. In theory Hazard should be the perfect false 9 with his attributes, however he didn't look great for Conte there. Signing one of Kefir, Luiz Alberto (lol), Kramaric is daft imo.

Didn't we win 3-0 in all but one of the matches last year that we used a false 9 in?

30 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

To be successful with a false 9 we need wingers either side who will stay high and be willing to make runs behind the defenders. Can't see it working with Hazard wanting to come deep and collect the ball  from LW all the time. In theory Hazard should be the perfect false 9 with his attributes, however he didn't look great for Conte there. Signing one of Kefir, Luiz Alberto (lol), Kramaric is daft imo.

I agree RE the wingers needing to run at the defence so that the false 9 can play them in. I also agree that Hazard in theory would play that role well. The problem is that in practice he is at his most dangerous running directly at defenders and I think we both know that he can't do that as easily in a false 9. 

IMO Hazard in recent seasons has come deep to collect the ball for one of two reasons: 1) under the more defensive Conte his creativity was needed to help break the opposition down or 2) we've been too slow in getting the ball to him and so he drops deep to collect it in frustration (like against West Ham). I have noticed that this season he has been more direct than before and indeed Sarri has indicated that he would like Hazard to run at defences more and spend less time dropping deep - so I suspect that Hazard in fact will. 

RE Luis Alberto, he has improved out of sight since his Liverpool days. Serie A watchers have been waxing lyrical about his passing, technique and vision, and he has scored a useful number of goals as well. He's not to be dismissed. 

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by DaRick

I'd try and get Cavani or Higuain in to cover for a year or two.