17 hours ago, dkw said:

So, anyone still think var is a good idea? 

Good in theory, but very poorly executed.

I really can't believe just how badly VAR is being administered and how week after week it goes on and we all have to put up with it.

When you get the rough decisions go against you, as supporters you feel victimized but let's face it, ALL teams at some point will be f**ked over by VAR (with the exception it seems of Liverpool)

These ridiculous offsides where goals are getting ruled out for a toe or elbow, that could have so easily been changed by now. Make it clear daylight between defender and attacker, otherwise goal stands. Before VAR we used to be gutted if a marginal offside ruled a goal out but at least you knew when the linesmans flag went up. Now the goal is scored, no flag and everyone celebrates only for minutes later to be ruled out and everyone is feeling left deflated. VAR is meant to be there for OBVIOUS errors, not things as marginal as a big toe in the build up.

There have  been some really poor calls nearly every week. Still think one of the worst was the late West Ham equaliser against Sheff Utd 'cos the ball brushed arm of Rice in build up which was unavoidable. We laughed at the time 'cos it was West Ham but you know deep down that one week it will be your turn and it's just not right. Yesterday Leicester felt cheated and rightly so. Obvious handball by KDB in box bot no penalty and then Man City GET a penalty later in game for handball in box! And poor Bournemouth, perfectly good goal ruled out at 0-0 and then at 1-0 down they equalize only for VAR to overturn and take play back to give Burnley a penalty, so instead of 1-1 it's 2-0. Of course I won't be feeling sorry for them if similar happens next week - we're due a result against our bogey team, but  you know that if you get a lucky call one week it will come back to bite you before long. VAR is the modern curse of football and it cannot be allowed to continue as it is at present.

 

Edited February 23, 20206 yr by Nibs

Fully agree Nibs. If we don't totally scrap it then I would be sympathetic to the idea of adopting the cricket approach.

Also the moment you are drawing lines on the pitch to see if someone is offside then a goal shouldn't be overturned. Unless you're hung like Claude Makalele then no part of your body is big enough for a line to be required to determine of it is a clear and obvious error.

Look at united. Red for Maguire not given. United player push Dave but foul given against dave.

Today clear dive and offside by their own rules. Joke.

The reason why VAR fails is not the technology. It is the same biased and corrupt people that put bent refs in charge in the first place to aid their favorite teams, we all know who those teams are, are running it for their own gain.

The english game reeks of corruption. And while we just sit back and take it, it always will do.

I actually don't think it is corruption in terms of back handers, think two things.

Laziness - VAR officials not really looking at situations correctly, after all they are not in front of a crowd so there is no pressure.

Bias - not willing to judge against certain teams, Utd, Liverpool and Spurs.

Re Clattenburg what he actually said was in a specific match he did not want to be seen as deciding the title by sending off Spurs players with a couple of matches to play for in a neck and neck premier race.

With VAR ironically that might have helped Clattenburg send those Spurs players off as they could show it on the screen. 

 

 

What is really getting on my nerves is how a lot of the ineptness of the on field ref is being brushed under the carpet due to VAR, Michael Oliver was terrible on the weekend and so was the ref against United on Monday however VAR seems to be getting majority of the bashing.

Had Oliver been stricter and not allow the Spurs players to get away with some outlandish physical tackles there wouldn't have been the case of lo Celso stamping on Azpi, he shouldve been booked in the first half for a couple of challenges and the kick out at Mount. At the time the commentators were lauding Oliver for allowing the game to flow yet that is the result you get when you allow a team to get away with aggressive challenges and this is not the first time Spurs have employed such tactics and we have been incredibly fortunate that none of our players have seen any serious injury in a few games against Spurs.

Also the only reason they actually owned up to the error was down to how obvious the mistake was and social media including Tottenham fans were pretty unanimous at what the result should've been therefore it was easier to own up that it was human error as opposed to besmirching the "VAR Process". #Shambles

  

47 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

What is really getting on my nerves is how a lot of the ineptness of the on field ref is being brushed under the carpet due to VAR, Michael Oliver was terrible on the weekend and so was the ref against United on Monday however VAR seems to be getting majority of the bashing.

Had Oliver been stricter and not allow the Spurs players to get away with some outlandish physical tackles there wouldn't have been the case of lo Celso stamping on Azpi, he shouldve been booked in the first half for a couple of challenges and the kick out at Mount. At the time the commentators were lauding Oliver for allowing the game to flow yet that is the result you get when you allow a team to get away with aggressive challenges and this is not the first time Spurs have employed such tactics and we have been incredibly fortunate that none of our players have seen any serious injury in a few games against Spurs.

Also the only reason they actually owned up to the error was down to how obvious the mistake was and social media including Tottenham fans were pretty unanimous at what the result should've been therefore it was easier to own up that it was human error as opposed to besmirching the "VAR Process". #Shambles

  

I would recommend you watch the rants of both Andy Gray & Garth Crooks - both have stated that the implementation of VAR is not being used correctly in England for whatever reason

Has VAR improved officiating?  No........ Just like monkey's don't tend to cook 5 star meals......you could give them all the nicest gadgets in the world, but a Michelin Star will still never arrive.

With VAR it's the same thing..... doesn't matter how many tools you give, if you have an incompetent ref and give them technology to assist.........you'll simply get an incompetent application of the technology.

Nothing wrong with VAR aside from the incompetence of those using it and making the calls.

Of course VAR won't be perfect......but it should be getting obvious calls right, and certainly shouldn't be making the opposite call on situations that are almost identical.......... the inconsistency & incompetence, as always, comes form the human element.  You just can't explain the decision making of the human, but the technology did it's job which is why we know how ludicrous some of these decisions are.

 

VAR can easily do what it was meant to.  Correct clear and obvious mistakes....... you just need a competent person sitting in front of the screen.  

The technology is not the problem with VAR, but the personnel the PGMOL produces is the problem pre & post VAR.  Maybe they need competition for spots just like many players seem, because so far they just seem complacent in making horrific errors on a regular basis.....even with the aid of countless slow motion replays form multiple angles.  

I also think there should be some form of punishment for a match official who declines to use the pitch side monitor and where VAR gets it wrong.....force the match official to take accountability for officiating the game, and not foist that responsibility to some bloke sitting miles away in a room full of monitors........ wish I could just relegate any potential decision making mistakes to another employee for the files I am responsible for, but I actually have to be accountable for my responsibilities.

29 minutes ago, Barry Bridges said:

Just like monkey's don't tend to cook 5 star meals

There’s always one exception to the rule though, this monkey can cook 

I know that I keep on bringing up the Rugby comparison, but they don't appear to have the same problems as we do.  As I understand it, the on-field referee has to ask for a review, and the video referee doesn't get involved unless he does.  I think that there is no automatic review.

There most definitely isn't a review back to 20 or 30 passes before a score to try to find an attacker with a toe 4 mm offside.

Also, it appear that the football VAR team's remit is to find a reason to disallow a goal.  Rugby's appear to be more about confirming the on-field referee's suspicions.

Generally, VAR (and refereeing in the UK) is either inept or corrupt.  I think it's probably a bit of both, with the majority of referees not really being very good, but also some of them will allow a personal preference to influence their decisions in subtle ways, to the detriment of the game as a whole.

This isn't saying that they are anti-Chels, but that they are just sh*te and partisan, mostly. Though, I can't see a Manchester-based team of referee and VAR monitor being allowed to oversee United against Liverpool without the scousers and the press screaming about it, and even more so if that team then made such obviously wrong calls as they did for the Mancs against us.

Should of been called SWYWWYW see what you want when you want

1 hour ago, coco said:

Should of been called SWYWWYW see what you want when you want

That's what it's called in Welsh.

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

I know that I keep on bringing up the Rugby comparison, but they don't appear to have the same problems as we do.  As I understand it, the on-field referee has to ask for a review, and the video referee doesn't get involved unless he does.  I think that there is no automatic review.

Not true. The TMO can and does draw the ref's attention to things he may have missed, from a knock-on to a stamp or an off the ball tackle. Obviously, this does not rule out bias or corruption  - it's the TMO call whether he goes looking for incidents, or turns a blind eye.

There most definitely isn't a review back to 20 or 30 passes before a score to try to find an attacker with a toe 4 mm offside.

Again, this can happen, but it's usually serious foul play that was not spotted that will see a ref go back through several phases to rule out a try.  On Saturday France had a try ruled out against Wales for a very marginal forward pass quite a while before they crossed for the try.

Also, it appear that the football VAR team's remit is to find a reason to disallow a goal.  Rugby's appear to be more about confirming the on-field referee's suspicions.

It's entirely up to the ref how he wants the video review to be used. He can ask 'Try or no try?', which means he really does not know, or he can ask 'Any reason not to award the try?' which means the try  will stand unless something clear and obvious can rule it out.

Generally, VAR (and refereeing in the UK) is either inept or corrupt.  I think it's probably a bit of both, with the majority of referees not really being very good, but also some of them will allow a personal preference to influence their decisions in subtle ways, to the detriment of the game as a whole.

This isn't saying that they are anti-Chels, but that they are just sh*te and partisan, mostly. Though, I can't see a Manchester-based team of referee and VAR monitor being allowed to oversee United against Liverpool without the scousers and the press screaming about it, and even more so if that team then made such obviously wrong calls as they did for the Mancs against us.

Totally agree with the last two paragraphs. I think refereeing in this country will improve when they get rid of Anthony Taylor and his Manc Var sidekick, and the Var cheat in charge of the Spuds game on the weekend.

The Guardian's cartoonist looks at the latest VAR fiascos:

 

4 hours ago, Backbiter said:

Totally agree with the last two paragraphs. I think refereeing in this country will improve when they get rid of Anthony Taylor and his Manc Var sidekick, and the Var cheat in charge of the Spuds game on the weekend.

Not like me to be wrong on SO many levels

2 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Not like me to be wrong on SO many levels

Backbiter did agree with 2 paragraphs, so it wasn't a total bust 

It would help, if those officiating and those who have the responsibility of watching VAR actually do their jobs properly.

That sounds so obvious I accept.

But they haven't, have they ?

3 hours ago, erskblue said:

It would help, if those officiating and those who have the responsibility of watching VAR actually do their jobs properly.

That sounds so obvious I accept.

But they haven't, have they ?

Modern society fella, phone it in at work then blame someone else when you get found out!

10 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Modern society fella, phone it in at work then blame someone else when you get found out!

Sounds like an ideal set of qualifications to be our current Prime Minister.

24 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Sounds like an ideal set of qualifications to be our current Prime Minister.

Sounds like an accurate description of our current Prime Minister to me!

 

18 hours ago, robdog said:

 

Because our Referees are sh*t

ESPN have a log of all VAR decisions this season. After recent games, ManU are currently topping their table with a +8 score of VAR overturned decisions.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

They also log what they label 'subjective calls', as distinct from supposed decisions of fact, which must mean offside. Surprise surprise Man U have had 6 of those go in their favour, while NONE have gone against. 

Our current score on overturned decisions is minus 4 (so 12 below Man U's). Our tally  of subjective decisions is 2 in favour and 4 against (making our net score of minus 2 seven below Man U's).

But but but..... ESPN's stats do not include decisions where VAR has NOT taken action, as in the two scandalous red cards not given to Maguire and Lo Celso, or the absurd decision not to give a penalty for handball against TAA, which meant Liverpool's opening goal against Man City was not cancelled out as it should have been.

So the reality is that VAR is stitching up some teams more than current stats suggest, while benefiting other teams even more.

But I think we all knew that anyway.