16 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

Across his entire career Pulisic averages a goal contribution every 8 games.

Has the lowest G/A per 90 of any attacking player at the club across their careers.

Is the only attacking player at the club to never score double figures in a league season, the only attacking player to never have double figures for assists in a season.

Took his goal well today after a lot of missed chances but the idea of Pulisic getting more time on the pitch leading to consistent goals is flimsy.

Don't think he did enough to get in contention to start on Tuesday but a positive step.

Apples to oranges.  Pulisic debuted in the Bundesliga at 16 playing against grown men.  Mason Mount would not play grown men til he was 18 and he would not play in a top 5 league til he was 20.  Pulisic played demonstrably tougher competition for 4 years unless you want to argue that Academy football, the Dutch league, and championship are tougher than the Bundesliga.

Compare last season or this season.  Add in that Pulisic got shoved several times in positions he is not suited to.  Wingback or CF.  He is a winger or attacking midfielder.  

 

For the record I am not trying to argue that he is demonstrably better than other players on this team, more that he is at roughly the same level as they are but gets about 10 percent of the respect they do.

Mount and Havertz went several games without doing jack meanwhile everyone is talking about how Pulisic who is playing like 10 mintues a game is sh*t.  Pulisic scores on his 2nd start.  How many starts did Mount and Havertz get before they did something.

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by Valpo

40 minutes ago, USATim said:

And I read fine. I quoted you - you said anyone who has ever posted about Pulisic thinks he has been downright sh*t. You can backtrack it all you want - those are your exact words. You might have been blinkered when you typed them, but at least own what you wrote, mate.

You don't read fine. This is what I wrote: "...pretty much everybody who ever posted about Pulisic thinks he's been frustrating, underwhelming or downright sh*t for the past 2 years or so."

Not quite how you quoted it. Now try and understand the nuances.

14 minutes ago, Valpo said:

Apples to oranges.  Pulisic debuted in the Bundesliga at 16 playing against grown men.  Mason Mount would not play grown men til he was 18 and he would not play in a top 5 league til he was 20.  Pulisic played demonstrably tougher competition for 4 years unless you want to argue that Academy football, the Dutch league, and championship are tougher than the Bundesliga.

Compare last season or this season.  Add in that Pulisic got shoved several times in positions he is not suited to.  Wingback or CF.  He is a winger or attacking midfielder.  

 

For the record I am not trying to argue that he is demonstrably better than other players on this team, more that he is at roughly the same level as they are but gets about 10 percent of the respect they do.

Mount and Havertz went several games without doing jack meanwhile everyone is talking about how Pulisic who is playing like 10 mintues a game is sh*t.  Pulisic scores on his 2nd start.  How many starts did Mount and Havertz get before they did something.

Pulisic has got tonne of respect. He had two poor seasons and largely got away with being criticised for the duration of both due to a run of form when atleast half the league weren't fully fit.

I was one of the first to start questioning him (the super cup was the straw that broke the camels back for me) and was treated like a mad man. 

50 minutes ago, Valpo said:

Apples to oranges.  Pulisic debuted in the Bundesliga at 16 playing against grown men.  Mason Mount would not play grown men til he was 18 and he would not play in a top 5 league til he was 20.  Pulisic played demonstrably tougher competition for 4 years unless you want to argue that Academy football, the Dutch league, and championship are tougher than the Bundesliga.

Compare last season or this season.  Add in that Pulisic got shoved several times in positions he is not suited to.  Wingback or CF.  He is a winger or attacking midfielder.  

 

For the record I am not trying to argue that he is demonstrably better than other players on this team, more that he is at roughly the same level as they are but gets about 10 percent of the respect they do.

Mount and Havertz went several games without doing jack meanwhile everyone is talking about how Pulisic who is playing like 10 mintues a game is sh*t.  Pulisic scores on his 2nd start.  How many starts did Mount and Havertz get before they did something.

Great points

We will see how the season plays out. Hopefully, with a person with attacking acumen now in charge in Potter, we will see Pulisic starting more and playing in his correct position. You guys keep hating, even when he scores.

57 minutes ago, Valpo said:

Apples to oranges.  Pulisic debuted in the Bundesliga at 16 playing against grown men.  Mason Mount would not play grown men til he was 18 and he would not play in a top 5 league til he was 20.  Pulisic played demonstrably tougher competition for 4 years unless you want to argue tue championship is tougher than the Bundesliga.

Compare last season or this season.  Add in that Pulisic got shoved several times in positions he is not suited to.  Wingback or CF.  He is a winger or attacking midfielder.  

I'd argue exactly that for attacking players, the Bundesliga is by far the worst defensive league in Europe, it's an absolute goal fest with most teams playing high lines and being routinely whipped by Dortmund, Bayern and 1 or 2 other teams on any given season lately Leipzig.  The top 4 teams in the Bundesliga last season all averaged over 2.3 goals a game.

Just look at the insane number of goals every attacking player manages in the Bundesliga,  Batshuyai had 7 in 10.  Our very own Havertz and recently departed Werner were hitting 20 goal seasons in their early 20s, Sancho and Dembele who were benching Pulisic as teenagers both put up much better numbers but have struggled since moving to tougher leagues albeit Dembele has really come into form lately.

It's just a really easy league for attacking players to thrive, i genuinely can't think of an attacking signing coming from the Bundesliga to the Premier league that didn't put up big numbers except Pulisic.

The reality is people try to Cherry pick whatever stat they can find to make it look like Pulisic is on Mount of Havertz level, perhaps it's goals per minute again West Midland sides,  Perhaps it's goals against goal keepers born in July, perhaps it's assists made on the 4th of July.

But simply by watching them play you can see both Havertz and offer so much more both with the ball and off the ball as did Werner (who averaged more goals a season for us than Pulisic scored in the best scoring season of his career)

It's really not a surprise or some kind of agenda that every manager Pulisic has played under has preferred other players, they see what the fans see and Pulisics general level has been below his team mates his entire career.  

That's why the fans criticise him and that's why he doesn't consistently start games.

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

38 minutes ago, USATim said:

We will see how the season plays out. Hopefully, with a person with attacking acumen now in charge in Potter, we will see Pulisic starting more and playing in his correct position. You guys keep hating, even when he scores.

Well, as Chelsea fans everyone wants him to do well, without exception.

I think he is criticised a bit too much, but no one hates him.

 

40 minutes ago, USATim said:

We will see how the season plays out. Hopefully, with a person with attacking acumen now in charge in Potter, we will see Pulisic starting more and playing in his correct position. You guys keep hating, even when he scores.

And that's exactly what gets peoples back up, translating deserved criticism for "hating". Especially when he got two years worth of free passes, compare that to the stick Callum got who has been better in every metric bar finishing.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Pulisic has got tonne of respect. He had two poor seasons and largely got away with being criticised for the duration of both due to a run of form when atleast half the league weren't fully fit.

I was one of the first to start questioning him (the super cup was the straw that broke the camels back for me) and was treated like a mad man. 

Oh please there were calls to sell him well before the Super cup.

And I don't see what he did in the super cup that was so bad.  He hit his penalty in the shootout.

Just now, Valpo said:

Oh please there were calls to sell him well before the Super cup.

And I don't see what he did in the super cup that was so bad.  He hit his penalty in the shootout.

We were tearing Villareal apart for the first half hour and him coming on for the injured Ziyech not only totally blunted our momentum but swung it in Villareal's favour.

Last season a few people lost patience but he still had credit in the bank with the general consensus. However the season before he was barely getting any criticism whatsoever.

And now he's getting "I told you so" and "haha where's the haters now" esque posts because he's done the basics of football for a couple of games.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

And that's exactly what gets peoples back up, translating deserved criticism for "hating". Especially when he got two years worth of free passes, compare that to the stick Callum got who has been better in every metric bar finishing.

I think Callum got a raw deal too honestly.  He got stuck on the bench forever.  Not loaned out someplace where he could get playing time.  Stifled his ability to take the next step.

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

We were tearing Villareal apart for the first half hour and him coming on for the injured Ziyech not only totally blunted our momentum but swung it in Villareal's favour.

Last season a few people lost patience but he still had credit in the bank with the general consensus. However the season before he was barely getting any criticism whatsoever.

And now he's getting "I told you so" and "haha where's the haters now" esque posts because he's done the basics of football for a couple of games.

So the loss of momentum is all Pulisic's fault?  Not a change in tactics in the 2nd half or anything else... just Pulisic.

How do you explain the domination in extra time then?  7 shots for Chelsea to 1 for Villareal.  63 percent possession for Chelsea.  Some nice blinders you have there.  Then he hit his P kick unlike Kai Havertz.

He hasn't played save for 10 minute cameos.

Again look a his by the minute production from last season and compare it to other players on this team.  They are all at about the same level.  He always has done the basics of football when he has actually been allowed to play.

Edited October 9, 20223 yr by Valpo

1 hour ago, Argo said:

And that's exactly what gets peoples back up, translating deserved criticism for "hating". Especially when he got two years worth of free passes, compare that to the stick Callum got who has been better in every metric bar finishing.

Sure seems like contempt at the very least.  Multiple people in the match thread suggested that we were playing with 10 players because apparently to them Pulisic is about as good as having no player at all.

I have followed many American sports and seen a lot of players who I didn't think were very good.  I have never suggested that playing them was about the same as playing nobody.

I would still love to see a trade with Arsenal, I said a long time ago that Pulisic would thrive there and he would stay in London and in the PL, and Martinelli would be better for us since he's less injury prone. Not going to happen though.

Should have buried the header.. but took his goal well.. don't think he will start against Milan with sterling coming back.. 

Pulisic will see a lot of gametime and will be critical to our success this season.. when we add Auba to the mix of yesterday's line up we should have enough for top 4.

Aldo ridiculous the comparisons between mount and pulisic.. different players. In SFl's season pulisic was great and then mount has been our player of the season for two years in which pulisic has either been injured or average .. mount has had a few bad games and I see some trying to jump on his back.. his two assists yesterday showed both aspects of his game which are class..  his tenacity and persistence gor the first and technical ability gor the second.. and had havertz not been selfish and cushioned one to Mason he would have had a goal too..

Fact is you take out CP from the team we will still have options..without mount the intebdity drops and we struggle most times.

The extremes on this thread are quite frankle boring now. Pulisic is a Chelsea Player and seems like a good young kid. I do think when he plays and in his natural position, more often than not he scores or assists. We cant expect someone to come on for 10 minutes here and there and create wonders but luckily he was somewhat effective against palace and scored against Wolves. 

We will have a lot of games this year and I'm sure he can do well. Lets get behind him fully and hope for the best with him. On his day he can be electric. If it still doesnt work under Potter of all managers, then we gotta say he just wasent cut out.

10 hours ago, USATim said:

Yet, you remain quiet on the Brits who disparage Pulisic. Gutless, you are. And I never claimed to be a Chelsea fan. 

Tim my man, be consistent!

Quote

Big time Chelsea fan. Not a big time TT fan. Dude plays favorites and has no idea how to motivate attacking players. We are four games in -

Quote

Already a Leeds fan. And a Chelsea fan. Just not as apt as you to throw two dudes who played for 20 minutes in an absolutely uncreative

Quote

I should have said most. I became a Chelsea fan because of guys like John Terry and Didier Drogba. But 99% of Americans have never heard of Todd Boehy.

As for Pulisic, I have plenty of faith in that boy, albeit maybe too much as my Betfred account may suggest!

5 hours ago, Argo said:

We were tearing Villareal apart for the first half hour and him coming on for the injured Ziyech not only totally blunted our momentum but swung it in Villareal's favour.

Last season a few people lost patience but he still had credit in the bank with the general consensus. However the season before he was barely getting any criticism whatsoever.

And now he's getting "I told you so" and "haha where's the haters now" esque posts because he's done the basics of football for a couple of 

Again, we will see how the season plays out. Think the lad will be just fine if he is given an adequate amount of time in his left wing spot. 

The power of one goal on the forum…

14 minutes ago, RMH said:

The power of one goal on the forum…

Pulisic is the only player on the planet than can score his first goal of the season on the 10th attempt and then have certain people confidently come out and say he's proven all the doubters and all the criticism wrong and should now start forevermore.

30 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Pulisic is the only player on the planet than can score his first goal of the season on the 10th attempt and then have certain people confidently come out and say he's proven all the doubters and all the criticism wrong and should now start forevermore.

Nahhhh...I will say the same thing about Mount when he actually puts one in the onion bag this season to get off his donut. We are on game 9 now, so hope it will be soon. 

1 hour ago, HazardousChoice said:

Pulisic is the only player on the planet than can score his first goal of the season on the 10th attempt and then have certain people confidently come out and say he's proven all the doubters and all the criticism wrong and should now start forevermore.

Pulisic averaging 1 goal every 6 shots on goal this season. Mount - 15 shots on goal this season, zero (0) goals. I will be more than happy to come out and say Mount has proven all the doubters wrong if he is able to bury the futebol in the Ole onion bag on his 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th or 20th shot attempts against Aston Villa next Sunday. Tune in!

This is the kind of thread warfare I've missed since Kenn v Brian M circa 2004

On 10/10/2022 at 07:58, SydneyChelsea said:

This is the kind of thread warfare I've missed since Kenn v Brian M circa 2004

You've just taken me back to the finest days of Internet posts.. 

Well second to posts about @Liam being less popular than his brother.

 

22 hours ago, USATim said:

Nahhhh...I will say the same thing about Mount when he actually puts one in the onion bag this season to get off his donut. We are on game 9 now, so hope it will be soon. 

In fairness

Pulisic is fortunate enough to play with 2 time Chelsea player of the season Mason Mount who creates chance after chance for him including the one he put on a plate for him against Wolves.

Mount has the misfortune of playing with this guy  https://understat.com/player/2662

0.04xA per 90 this season, 0.09 per 90 last season.

The statistics back up what is clear to anyone watching us, Pulisic is one of the least creative wingers in the league and the least creative winger to play for us in decades certainly since Roman bought the club. It's my main criticism of Pulisic on the pitch, he actively makes the team worse and the attack less functional because he's incapable of actually creating chances for his team mates due to having no passing ability and not having the dribbling ability to beat a man or create space.

It's very difficult to have any kind of fluidity in the offence when 1 player has such a limited skillet.

 

Edited October 10, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice