My understanding is the Oligarchs took advantage of a loop hole to buy up shares, perhaps unethical rather than corrupt.

Putin as leader of the state wanted them to put some of their wealth back into Russia and so Abramovich for example, served as governor of that region in the Siberian area. I think he also banned them selling thier shares to foreign interests.

Khodorkosvy had foreign backers and didn't want to play that game so they came down hard on him.

You may recall that period when Putin stepped down and Medvedev took over, never looked as competent as Putin. 

I suspect the Russian military control things rather than this being a proper democracy because the Cold War never went away they were just at a disadvantage after late 80's -  ealry 90s collapse happened.

Now they are ready to challenge again................

 

 

38 minutes ago, Sindre said:

But he's a small part in a much bigger picture here.

Sanctions against oligarchs does have an impact on Putin as he's the biggest one of them all. It does also have an impact on Russia as a whole. Wheter it's enough for Putin to stop the war no one knows but it's part of a campaign from the west to try and do everything we can to stop this war. And that's why Roman have also been affected by this.

I don't see the impact on Putin nor on Russian politics and Russia has been under various sanctions for years already, they don't care. It's pretty obvious that Roman deciding to sell the club has no impact on how soon the war will stop, I mean no matter what he does he has 0 control over what has been happening there in Ukraine.

Roman will sell because he loves the club and doesn't want the club to suffer from being connected to something that nobody that has a relation to the club has anything to do with and for that I can only thank him. I wouldn't like it if the club was sanctions and seized by the government and ultimately maybe even shut down and I have my right to see that as an overreaction because like I said, going after Roman in order to get Putin isn't really a good move, it only makes things worse for Chelsea FC.

Roman is innocent in all this and he can't do anything about Russia being in a war, that's equivalent of punishing Elon Musk yes he's a rich man and you can be sure that he has contacts all over the place but he can't stop the US military and the president for deciding that the air force is going to bomb Yemen again, it's all in vain.

Anyone spreading disinformation about Nazis in Ukraine will be immediately banned.

1 minute ago, coco said:

Antony spreading disinformation about Nazis in Ukraine will be immediately banned.

I assume pamery is banned?

That was a disgusting post filled with utter drivel.

34 minutes ago, coco said:

Anyone spreading disinformation about Nazis in Ukraine will be immediately banned.

Yes the Nazi-incarnate has yet to leave Moscow. 

Most successful club over the last 19 years - still get criticised. Fcuk me: 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10583835/IAN-LADYMAN-Roman-Abramovichs-boom-bust-cycle-cost-Chelsea-trophies.html

3 hours ago, The Brit said:

Most successful club over the last 19 years - still get criticised. Fcuk me: 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10583835/IAN-LADYMAN-Roman-Abramovichs-boom-bust-cycle-cost-Chelsea-trophies.html

He is the pantomime villain to them. They have judged him guilty already and all of us by association.

17 hours ago, azpi28 said:

The oligarchs did. They were afraid that after Yeltsin the new president wouldn’t be as understanding. They basically built Putin up from nothing. If not for the Oligarchs Putin would have never been able to come to power. The richest of them all made the mistake to recommend on national television to go for the European model and get rid of all the corruption. He got sentenced to 14 years in prison and got his company taken away and it was divided between putins loyal friends. 
 

So that’s what happens if you oppose Putin. He is now an exile 

 

This is him today 

 

 

Abramovich isn’t a saint, he is a Machiavellian type, but still he is a chelsea legend, and always will be. To deny him that would be hypocritical. he who lives in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones etc. A lot of riches everywhere in the world have come at a price. The hypocrisy is that our rivals try to bring his politics and his history to tarnish our club while United and Arsenal fans would have sold their own mother to have Abramovich as an owner instead of that American. I really hope he is against the war, it’s one thing to get rich through corruption, taking advantage of a corrupt system, but to support the war would be insane 

I think that's well put. Even very well put.

 Abramovitch made his money during the Yeltsin period but sold out of what is now Rusal early on. I find it hard to believe that any of the billionaires are in favour of the invasion as beyond any other reason it has to be bad for their wealth. Abramovitch clearly likes his football he did support for the Russian team and its juniors. He has clearly built the Chelsea club up as a business and a club. Considering the stadium issue he couldn't have done much more. The academy is one of if not the best. He will leave a top club to the next owner. We have won  all the trophies, competed every season, reinvested regularly. He was clearly generous letting Peter Cech for instance leave. The list of positives in that regard goes on.

12 hours ago, Gol15 said:

like I said, going after Roman in order to get Putin isn't really a good move, it only makes things worse for Chelsea FC.

As I said, they are going after the oligarchs. Not Roman specifically but he's part of the oligarchy and he's therefore affected.

Sanctions against the oligarchy and the Russian economy have already had a massive impact. Have a look at what's happened to the Rouble for example. Several oligarchs have already spoken out against Putin because they will lose most of their money if Putin intend to continue this.

Unfortunately the west can't obliterate Russian in conventional warfare due to the nuclear threat but we can sure as hell squeeze them hard with the sanctions.

Roman is part of that group of Putins enablers. If he felt 100% sure this will not affect Chelsea he wouldn't have put us up for sale. Now it doesn't mean Roman has anything to do with the war. I am sure he is as shocked to see what is going on as the next man. 

If these oligarchs really start to lose massive amounts of money someone will do something. 

Such a sad turn or events and really hoping this will end soon. Who owns Chelsea next in this very moment seems irrelevant.

Most of us glean our knowledge of how things happened or who did from sources or individuals that often shape the truth to fit their own agenda

Having said all that what we do know is the Russian assets were sold off for far less than they were worth. Individuals took advantage and ended up adding to their individual wealth .

Now I know it’s not on the same scale nor was the “ fire sale” conducted in the same way but how easy is it for those to point the finger at RA in terms of how he used the process , a process that was akin to the Wild West, and yes I don’t think for one second that RA is a saint or anything close to it. But let’s talk about those that bought BT shares bought  British Gas shares ,bought  British Steel shares , bought Royal Mail shares, bought Water shares, bought Jaguar shares . Public assets which were said to be worth approx 5 times the value they were sold for,

Within days these hugely  discounted shares were sold on at vast individual profit. I know one person who made thousands buying shares in his name, his  wife’s  names, their children’s names indeed every family member that would likewise benefit when the shares were off.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Sindre said:

As I said, they are going after the oligarchs. Not Roman specifically but he's part of the oligarchy and he's therefore affected.

Sanctions against the oligarchy and the Russian economy have already had a massive impact. Have a look at what's happened to the Rouble for example. Several oligarchs have already spoken out against Putin because they will lose most of their money if Putin intend to continue this.

Unfortunately the west can't obliterate Russian in conventional warfare due to the nuclear threat but we can sure as hell squeeze them hard with the sanctions.

Nail on head

The way Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool or Manchester City owners have done their wealth is another question. I think it is fair to say we could find dirt behind their money as well. However none of them have started to blindlessly kill people. 

Roman being pinned by this for me is more than okay. We need to pressure Putin in every peaceful way possible.

27 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Unfortunately the west can't obliterate Russian in conventional warfare due to the nuclear threat but we can sure as hell squeeze them hard with the sanctions.

If the west decide to do conventional warfare, you can probably see ww3 very soon and I don't think anybody want that.

It is estimated that Putin’s net worth is around 40 billion, while having a 100k a year state salary…. Roman Abramovich donated 203 million towards Putins palace in Sochi although supposedly that money was supposed to go to health care. He also gave Putin a yacht. This all goes through offshore companies and constructions designed to hide the owners. 
 

There is this theory that Putin and the KGB were responsible for the appartment bombings that were used to justify the Chechen war. Everyone who has tried to investigate this has ended up death 

29 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

It is estimated that Putin’s net worth is around 40 billion, while having a 100k a year state salary…. Roman Abramovich donated 203 million towards Putins palace in Sochi although supposedly that money was supposed to go to health care. He also gave Putin a yacht. This all goes through offshore companies and constructions designed to hide the owners. 
 

There is this theory that Putin and the KGB were responsible for the appartment bombings that were used to justify the Chechen war. Everyone who has tried to investigate this has ended up death 

Litvinenko most famously 

 

Article in today’s times 2 on RA, by Catherine Belton who I happened to know in my Moscow days. Worth a read. She wrote a book called “Putin’s People” and was sued by RA, Friedman and Rosneft… she refers to that in the article too. While a lot of it is open to conjecture, I can vouch for her honesty/integrity completely.

3 hours ago, Sindre said:

As I said, they are going after the oligarchs. Not Roman specifically but he's part of the oligarchy and he's therefore affected.

Sanctions against the oligarchy and the Russian economy have already had a massive impact. Have a look at what's happened to the Rouble for example. Several oligarchs have already spoken out against Putin because they will lose most of their money if Putin intend to continue this.

Unfortunately the west can't obliterate Russian in conventional warfare due to the nuclear threat but we can sure as hell squeeze them hard with the sanctions.

The sanctions are affecting the oligarchs and the regular people as well. Several firms like Microsoft, Apple, PWC, etc. Are stopping operations and letting go of people. Their hope is that there will be widespread pressure to overthrow Putin. For now, everyone in Russia is being fed a ver biased view that they are liberating Ukraine. People will realize that isn't true. 

2 hours ago, evissy said:

The way Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool or Manchester City owners have done their wealth is another question. I think it is fair to say we could find dirt behind their money as well. However none of them have started to blindlessly kill people. 

Roman being pinned by this for me is more than okay. We need to pressure Putin in every peaceful way possible.

Eh? I'm not sure I understand this post. Are you saying Roman Abramovich is killing people now? 

56 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

It is estimated that Putin’s net worth is around 40 billion, while having a 100k a year state salary…. Roman Abramovich donated 203 million towards Putins palace in Sochi although supposedly that money was supposed to go to health care. He also gave Putin a yacht. This all goes through offshore companies and constructions designed to hide the owners. 
 

There is this theory that Putin and the KGB were responsible for the appartment bombings that were used to justify the Chechen war. Everyone who has tried to investigate this has ended up death 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-9547717/Corrections-clarifications.html

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

As I said, they are going after the oligarchs. Not Roman specifically but he's part of the oligarchy and he's therefore affected.

Sanctions against the oligarchy and the Russian economy have already had a massive impact. Have a look at what's happened to the Rouble for example. Several oligarchs have already spoken out against Putin because they will lose most of their money if Putin intend to continue this.

Unfortunately the west can't obliterate Russian in conventional warfare due to the nuclear threat but we can sure as hell squeeze them hard with the sanctions.

You keep saying "not Roman specifically" but as a result of that non-specific thing he's going to sell the club, I guess you never liked Roman then?

No matter how many times you repeat that plan I can't see it working because it already failed. Russia has had various sanctions for years already which didn't stop and that didn't make them change their way of thinking, if anything it only made them more decisive as we are seeing it now so if anything that strategy has been counter-productive!

What you're saying that is unfortunate is possibly a big reason why Putin has been in power for so long, you're confirming how he sees the Western world. Consider that Russia has never had a democracy, ever. Their history shows it and they only know that the Western countries tried already to obliterate them so they see Ukraine in NATO as an existential threat and that goes before any kind of sanction, when you're perceiving that you're cornered nothing else matters but to get out of there.

But if you really want to get out of this danger of a single story, this stupid game that the US and Russia have been playing goes two ways; When a sovereign nation of Cuba decided that it would be a great idea to have Soviet military bases and missiles what did the US do? They bombed them and then struck a deal with the Soviets to turn around their ships and in exchange they would take away their own missiles from Turkey, afterwards the US put sanctions on Cuba that have been going on for 60 years... So the punishment for all Cuban generations for what happen in the 1960's is still going on as if they are worse than Genghis Khan, so much for the quality of life concept when generation after generation is born into poverty there, that would conclude that the paranoia goes both ways.

Thread moved to a private forum not open to the public for viewing.

17 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What you're saying that is unfortunate is possibly a big reason why Putin has been in power for so long, you're confirming how he sees the Western world. Consider that Russia has never had a democracy, ever. Their history shows it and they only know that the Western countries tried already to obliterate them so they see Ukraine in NATO as an existential threat and that goes before any kind of sanction, when you're perceiving that you're cornered nothing else matters but to get out of there.

You completely missed the point. Obviously I meant in relation to this invasion. To try and save Ukraine and her innocent people from this monstrous war and invasion.

I'll await some examples of when Western countries tried to "obliterate" Russia. If they wanted peace, there would be peace.

You bring up NATO but you do realize NATO is a defensive alliance?

 

 

1 hour ago, big blue said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/article-9547717/Corrections-clarifications.html

The thing is the dailymail cannot prove their allegations therefore in order to not get sued by abramovich’s representatives they will have to make a statement like that. What abramovich allegedly did was give a yacht via one of his companies to a company and that company is secretly owned by Putin. So no abramovich did not give a yacht to Putin but a company linked to him gave a yacht to a company linked to Putin with all kinds of constructions in place to hide ownership 

Edited March 7, 20224 yr by azpi28

Swissramble paints a bleak picture of our financial state post Roman. 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1500728401694502912