I would not be surprised if it is a setback like Fofana had and sees him miss a month.

At the risk of sounding like Ty from Arsenal TV, why wasn’t the weather considered?, ‘statistically’ conditions like that are the worst way to come back from injury. Soaking pitch, pissing it down.. and he starts the game and most likely was due to continue until the end let’s face it. If luck is going against you, why even risk it.. but that’s just how bad Azpi is now as an option for us; we’d rather throw Reece right back out there than start him. 

Was he rushed back ahead of time.

 

 

10 minutes ago, HonoreMeiBalsac said:

Was he rushed back ahead of time.

 

 

That does sound like our staff/medical team not looking after him don't it...

4 hours ago, OriginalS said:

Yeah I don't want to be negative after a win but that was a junior mistake from Potter.
It's so odd because he said this just yesterday which was sensible but then he's just thrown straight into it today.

‘The plan now is to try and help him play his minutes and the next challenge is building them up in the Premier League, which is not an ideal place to do that but he’s got the capacity to do it.

‘We just need to be clear and careful with the minutes that he plays but I’m confident that the more football he plays, the more we’ll see what a fantastic player he is.’

Hi

Chief Grahampotterologist here.

When Graham says "managing minutes" he more often than not refers to the number of minutes done over a prolonged time - meaning James wouldn't be starting two games in a week for a while and so forth. Today I'm guessing he would have been subbed off around the hour mark.

Sad for the lad, he is a fantastic player.

Hopefully nothing horribly bad but it did not look good. At first I thought it was just a small feeling in his knee since he kept playing for a minute or two despite not moving properly when he didnt get that corner early in the second half. But then when he saw that the sub was going to happen and his adrenaline level dropped, it was noticeable that he realised exactly how bad it was...

My guess is another surgery and similar amount of time out injured as last time it happened.

53 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

That does sound like our staff/medical team not looking after him don't it...

Yup. Or a sh*te surgery.

It would be somewhat out of character for GP to play a half-injured player. When Tariq Lamptey in Brighton had his surgery with prolonged absence, it took six weeks from Lamptey being declared fit to him getting a start.

It'd be nice if his performance coach would stop biting his tongue and tell what he thinks because I think GP & the coaching staff is no more happy than he is, and would like to get some answers.

8 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

Yup. Or a sh*te surgery.

It would be somewhat out of character for GP to play a half-injured player. When Tariq Lamptey in Brighton had his surgery with prolonged absence, it took six weeks from Lamptey being declared fit to him getting a start.

It'd be nice if his performance coach would stop biting his tongue and tell what he thinks because I think GP & the coaching staff is no more happy than he is, and would like to get some answers.

He did not have surgery for this injury, it was managed in house by docs and physio. Maybe now he will need surgery, like kante did when we tried to manage his recovery.

1 hour ago, HonoreMeiBalsac said:

Was he rushed back ahead of time.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

He did not have surgery for this injury, it was managed in house by docs and physio. Maybe now he will need surgery, like kante did when we tried to manage his recovery.

Ok. Easy to imagine that maybe he should have had one. But what do I know, I'm no doctor (though there should be one around to make wise decisions around these things).

We aren't the same team without him.  Big loss if he is out for a significant period of time.

14 minutes ago, Valpo said:

We aren't the same team without him.  Big loss if he is out for a significant period of time.

It would not hurt us as much if the drop off in quality was not so huge to Dave Ivanovic

I thought we stopped playing as soon as he went off, and couldn't even hold the ball. Whether it's couple of games or months, his absence will be huge. I'm not in favour of signings in this window, but I'd probably get a right back if there are decent options out there

9 hours ago, SwedishEntity said:

Hi

Chief Grahampotterologist here.

When Graham says "managing minutes" he more often than not refers to the number of minutes done over a prolonged time - meaning James wouldn't be starting two games in a week for a while and so forth. Today I'm guessing he would have been subbed off around the hour mark.

Sad for the lad, he is a fantastic player.

Hopefully nothing horribly bad but it did not look good. At first I thought it was just a small feeling in his knee since he kept playing for a minute or two despite not moving properly when he didnt get that corner early in the second half. But then when he saw that the sub was going to happen and his adrenaline level dropped, it was noticeable that he realised exactly how bad it was...

My guess is another surgery and similar amount of time out injured as last time it happened.

Yes I get that. But Potter should have shown extreme caution with R.James after a serious knee ligament injury.  It's more or less unheard of to throw a player right into the XI after such an injury, even more so when it's someone like James who we know is fragile.

He should have been on the pitch for the last 10 minutes or so yesterday. Then 20 against Forest and then perhaps start against City if everything went well. Now we are screwed instead and that didn't need to happen. It sounds like the James camp is pissed off as well which is understandable. Major mistake from the manager.

James wasn't thrown in cold, he played 60 minutes v Brentford in the friendly, he will have been tested all data checked to build a plan for rehab, part of which was to play minutes in yesterdays game.

Its horrible bad luck, its not someone's fault, no matter how much some people are desperate to paint Potter as some kind of clueless clown. 

 

The unfortunate thing is that we don't have a good backup. We have an aging RB. So many areas of our team have needed upgrading, yet the previous ownership sat on their hands and did nothing about it. No offence against Azpi, but he simply doesn't have he legs any longer. As soon as James went off Bournemouth targeted that left side. It's an easy tactic with Azpi at RB. Hope we upgrade in Jan. 

15 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Yes I get that. But Potter should have shown extreme caution with R.James after a serious knee ligament injury.  It's more or less unheard of to throw a player right into the XI after such an injury, even more so when it's someone like James who we know is fragile.

He should have been on the pitch for the last 10 minutes or so yesterday. Then 20 against Forest and then perhaps start against City if everything went well. Now we are screwed instead and that didn't need to happen. It sounds like the James camp is pissed off as well which is understandable. Major mistake from the manager.

"Unheard of" is not really the case - depends on how long the player has been training since coming back.

If Reece James and/or the medical/physio department told GP that "James can't play x number of minutes" and GP said "I dont care, he'll play until he drops", then I agree with you: then it is definitely GPs fault.

If on the other hand they said "he can play" and he couldn't, its on James/physios/his questionable personal coach.

If James/physios/his personal coach said "maybe he can, maybe can't, you'll take a look at his knee - perhaps tap it a little bit and see if it makes a funny noise - and make the decision", the club is the least professionally run club in England because it says itself that it shouldn't be a managers job to make medical assessments of a player

And then there's obviously the chance that it was a case of bad luck... in which case no one is really to blame.

Edited December 28, 20223 yr by SwedishEntity

7 minutes ago, dkw said:

James wasn't thrown in cold, he played 60 minutes v Brentford in the friendly, he will have been tested all data checked to build a plan for rehab, part of which was to play minutes in yesterdays game.

Its horrible bad luck, its not someone's fault, no matter how much some people are desperate to paint Potter as some kind of clueless clown. 

 

Big difference between Premier League and a friendly. Does anyone think it was a good idea to start him yesterday? Or even if you decided to start him, why not take him off at half time when we are 2-0 up?

This was completely avoidable. Unlucky yes, but it was a massive risk to take so why take it?

5 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

If James/physios/his personal coach said "maybe he can, maybe can't, you'll take a look at his knee - perhaps tap it a little bit and see if it makes a funny noise - and make the decision", the club is the least professionally run club in England because it says itself that it shouldn't be a managers job to make medical assessments of a player

The statement from his coach speaks volumes. Clearly he's royally pissed off about something and at least to me it's clear what that is.

Ah great, captain f**king hindsights back.

Yes, everyone thought it was good to see James play, not a single person said it wasn't, not even you. 

There will have been a plan for his minutes, it's about building fitness and match sharpness. 

Every injury is avoidable, let's just not pick him ever, never gets injured then, genius.

1 minute ago, OriginalS said:

The statement from his coach speaks volumes. Clearly he's royally pissed off about something and at least to me it's clear what that is.

Agree, it does. It reeks of blame deflection and hindsight.

Why didn't he post it when he saw James in the starting lineup? Would he have said the same thing if things went as planned and James was subbed off after 60 minutes?

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

Ah great, captain f**king hindsights back.

Yes, everyone thought it was good to see James play, not a single person said it wasn't, not even you. 

There will have been a plan for his minutes, it's about building fitness and match sharpness. 

Every injury is avoidable, let's just not pick him ever, never gets injured then, genius.

I wasn't happy to see him in the XI at all.

I'm sure there was a plan but in my opinion it was a poor one and now our season is messed up because of it. More caution should have been shown and he 100% should have been eased into it. Potter even said he would in his press-conference before the game but I don't know what happened.

‘The plan now is to try and help him play his minutes and the next challenge is building them up in the Premier League, which is not an ideal place to do that but he’s got the capacity to do it.

‘We just need to be clear and careful with the minutes that he plays but I’m confident that the more football he plays, the more we’ll see what a fantastic player he is.’

10 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

Agree, it does. It reeks of blame deflection and hindsight.

Why didn't he post it when he saw James in the starting lineup? Would he have said the same thing if things went as planned and James was subbed off after 60 minutes?

We could play what ifs from today until tomorrow if you want.

He we actually built his minutes up instead of going from 0-60+ (there is no evidence he was planning to hook him at 60 either for that sake) like he said he would we'd still be in the race for Top 4. If he's out for months now we are not in it anymore, pretty major deal and it was avoidable.

6 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

I wasn't happy to see him in the XI at all.

I'm sure there was a plan but in my opinion it was a poor one and now our season is messed up because of it. More caution should have been shown and he 100% should have been eased into it. Potter even said he would in his press-conference before the game but I don't know what happened.

‘The plan now is to try and help him play his minutes and the next challenge is building them up in the Premier League, which is not an ideal place to do that but he’s got the capacity to do it.

‘We just need to be clear and careful with the minutes that he plays but I’m confident that the more football he plays, the more we’ll see what a fantastic player he is.’

And in a similar fashion to James "personal coach" you just sort of forgot to mention it until things went sh*t and you could play the role of Cpt. Wise-Arse Hindsight.

Just now, SwedishEntity said:

And in a similar fashion to James "personal coach" you just sort of forgot to mention it until things went sh*t and you could play the role of Cpt. Wise-Arse Hindsight.

Alright, no need to continue this.

Do forgive me for giving Potter the benefit of the doubt and hoping he and us would get away with it. Bottom line is that a decision the manager made now has probably cost us any hopes of salvaging the season so i'm a bit pissed off at that.

You don't even support the club so you wouldn't understand would you.

5 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

We could play what ifs from today until tomorrow if you want.

He we actually built his minutes up instead of going from 0-60+ (there is no evidence he was planning to hook him at 60 either for that sake) like he said he would we'd still be in the race for Top 4. If he's out for months now we are not in it anymore, pretty major deal and it was avoidable.

Other than GP saying so, nope, no evidence.

You don't know if it was "avoidable" - there is no evidence that getting injured again would have been impossible if he had played say 30 minutes instead of the 50 or so it took before he got injured. 

Like I said, if Chelsea are going to make Graham Potter decide if a knee-injury is healed, partially healed or not healed at all, there will be a lot more trouble around because he has no medical education as far as I know. Better to do like every other club in England and make those trained to do that job make those calls... unless this is already the case despite your assumptions of the opposite.