2 hours ago, Slojo said:

I get annoyed with the revisionism when it comes to Torres, he was highly frustrating. I remember when Mourinho finally came in and we said "It's time for Torres to turn it around now, he can do it" he couldn't. Had an amazing, and I mean amazing game against Manchester City though, but other than that, nope. And then when it came to January when we were thinking about selling him and getting a new striker in, he starts playing well and scores 3 goals that month, all in separate games. Once January ends, back to normal again. We could've won the league that year if we had a competent striker up front. Because at one point during February we were at the top of the league, it was very close between the top 4 teams at the time. 

All we lacked that season was a good forward to get us over the finish line, but we had Torres, Eto'o and Demba Ba... 

Todays Chelsea would have signed Aguero. 

I still love Torres though, he wanted it, he tried, he worked at it. He just had lost his quality due to injuries.

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Todays Chelsea would have signed Aguero. 

I still love Torres though, he wanted it, he tried, he worked at it. He just had lost his quality due to injuries.

See I even disagree with that, I remember the times when Torres completely sulked and gave up. 

The thing is, I do actually feel sorry for him, Torres got such harsh treatment compared to other signings. Remember that Di Maria signing which was the record signing at the time? He never got the treatment Torres got. Around then in 2011 it was so much different, and Torres was at the butt end of every joke and scrutiny, the talk was always on him and his goal drought didn't help things or give him time to settle here. He certainly had his moments though, especially in Europe, so we can always remember that at least and that's why he's still very much liked by a lot of Chelsea supporters and I hope he knows this. 

Today you've got players like Pepe who have done nothing and cost 80 million, but you never hear about it, it's so much different now than it was 10 years ago. It's just a shame for Torres it couldn't come around now for him, but as you said, he lost his quality due to injuries, the Torres signing we should've stayed away from. I think it purely happened due to that game at Stamford Bridge when he put in a worldie, if it wasn't for that game we might never have pursued it... But who knows... 

As for Aguero, we were highly linked with him for years, no idea what happened there. 

4 hours ago, Slojo said:

I get annoyed with the revisionism when it comes to Torres, he was highly frustrating. I remember when Mourinho finally came in and we said "It's time for Torres to turn it around now, he can do it" he couldn't. Had an amazing, and I mean amazing game against Manchester City though, but other than that, nope. And then when it came to January when we were thinking about selling him and getting a new striker in, he starts playing well and scores 3 goals that month, all in separate games. Once January ends, back to normal again. We could've won the league that year if we had a competent striker up front. Because at one point during February we were at the top of the league, it was very close between the top 4 teams at the time. 

All we lacked that season was a good forward to get us over the finish line, but we had Torres, Eto'o and Demba Ba... 

I actually think Eto'o gets a harsh press even to this day. He took a good 2/3 months to get upto speed properly but as soon as he did I thought he was brilliant and I genuinely believe we'd have won the title if he didn't get injured against Arsenal.

I was incandescent when he didn't get an extension, he would have been perfect as a back up and maybe sometimes partner to Diego Costa.

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

See I even disagree with that, I remember the times when Torres completely sulked and gave up. 

The thing is, I do actually feel sorry for him, Torres got such harsh treatment compared to other signings. Remember that Di Maria signing which was the record signing at the time? He never got the treatment Torres got. Around then in 2011 it was so much different, and Torres was at the butt end of every joke and scrutiny, the talk was always on him and his goal drought didn't help things or give him time to settle here. He certainly had his moments though, especially in Europe, so we can always remember that at least and that's why he's still very much liked by a lot of Chelsea supporters and I hope he knows this. 

Today you've got players like Pepe who have done nothing and cost 80 million, but you never hear about it, it's so much different now than it was 10 years ago. It's just a shame for Torres it couldn't come around now for him, but as you said, he lost his quality due to injuries, the Torres signing we should've stayed away from. I think it purely happened due to that game at Stamford Bridge when he put in a worldie, if it wasn't for that game we might never have pursued it... But who knows... 

As for Aguero, we were highly linked with him for years, no idea what happened there. 

I'll can't find the interview again (I'll try and if I do I'll link it) but I remember sometime around the time Robbie was sacked for Rafa he used the famous service excuse himself, I mean it was one thing coming from his biggest apologist, but to come from the man himself is mind-blowing.

Then there was the widely reported story of him sulking on the plane when we made him a European Champion.

 

13 minutes ago, Argo said:

I actually think Eto'o gets a harsh press even to this day. He took a good 2/3 months to get upto speed properly but as soon as he did I thought he was brilliant and I genuinely believe we'd have won the title if he didn't get injured against Arsenal.

I was incandescent when he didn't get an extension, he would have been perfect as a back up and maybe sometimes partner to Diego Costa.

He was actually our only forward who could unlock Hazard and play with him. As prolific as Costa was here, he couldn't do that. 

The only issue with Eto'o is that he wasn't consistently scoring goals when we needed them. Still a great player though, just past his best when we got him. 

13 hours ago, Argo said:

Couldn't disagree more, the only thing i credit him for is the Europa run, other than that he held us back as a football club for the entire time he was here.

In the league he was awful, that was true. From his time here, I'll always have a soft spot when helped us hammer the final nail in the coffin against Barca and winning the corner against Bayern. Plus the Europa run. 

Agree to disagree then? 

3 minutes ago, Deino said:

In the league he was awful, that was true. From his time here, I'll always have a soft spot when helped us hammer the final nail in the coffin against Barca and winning the corner against Bayern. Plus the Europa run. 

Agree to disagree then? 

In my eyes Bosingwa (who I also couldn't wait to see the back off) was the hero of that moment, he made a crucial interception that prevented a 2 on 1 Vs Cech.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

In my eyes Bosingwa (who I also couldn't wait to see the back off) was the hero of that moment, he made a crucial interception that prevented a 2 on 1 Vs Cech.

Fair enough 

46 minutes ago, Deino said:

e he was awful, that was true. From his time here, I'll always have a soft spot when helped us hammer the final nail in the coffin against Barca and winning the corner against Bayern. Plus the Europa run. 

 

for me the biggest hero were cech for saving against Robben and Big Drog!

On 08/12/2020 at 07:40, Slojo said:

I'm still fully preparing for that bad patch where things will inevitably turn sour and we start dropping points. Don't get me wrong, I expect we'll finish top 4 this season, I would say comfortably but you look at the ridiculous luck United are getting and are still somehow only 3 points behind with a game in hand. Last season things were going great until that West Ham game and December we really struggled, obviously at the moment we can treat this month as November given the COVID situation. 

The major difference this time is, is that we are solid at the back. Last season you could tell things were eventually going to start dropping, the defence was piss poor, constantly letting goals in nonstop. I remember we were waiting for Rudiger's return so that he can rally the troops, he turned out to be the worst of the lot and an absolute liability. Then on top of that you had Kepa, no doubt one of the worst signings in football history when it comes to flops. 

Now it's a lot different! December is going to be hard, no Ziyech is a right pain in the balls, I expect us to drop some points here and there. You've got West Ham coming up and no doubt those c**ts will probably prove to be Franks official bogey team as they somehow beat us twice last season. And I have no doubt that we'll play Arsenal just as they're starting to find their feet, that happened last season. Just be prepared for that period, it's going to be tight, lots of tight fixtures and hard games. 

The main factor for us having a strong season will be fitness. I don't think we'll challenge for the title, so I'm not going to even start thinking about it until another 10 games or so. But if we can keep all of our key players fit, we're in for a good season. Because we have the quality, going forward we are brilliant, that's something Frank has never had trouble with since coming here. But what happens if Chilwell is out for a month? Oh great, we've got Emerson at left back, a complete liability and offers nothing going forward. It's situations like that which will determine our success big time. It might sound pretty obvious, but it's not, this time it really is just about keeping players fit and we will do well. 

Come the end of the season I think we'll be in the market for another DM (Declan Rice probably) to compete with Kante and offer rotation, a new LB to rotate with Chilwell and probably a new defender. I don't think we will need to sign anyone in January fingers crossed. 

Just as I said earlier in the week. The deciding factor for success this season is keeping our players fit. 

Any team who has 3 of their best wingers (or only wingers) is going to drop points. Imagine if Liverpool lost Salah, Mane and Jota. Or Spurs lost Son, Moura, Bergwijn. Or United lost Rashford, Martial. Or City lost Mahrez, Torres, Sterling. They would all be the exact same position, dropping points. 

We can't do anything to the opposition with Kai and Werner out wide, little to no creativity there. If Pulisic and Ziyech are going to struggle with fitness all season, we are going to struggle badly, it's as simple as that. And then you've got CHO injured also which is a right kick in the balls after you've been dropped by a right and a left hook, insult to injury. The injury situation is a mess, and to tell you the truth, this has been happening before COVID, I'm pretty sick of it. 

Lampard showing no real plan here against Everton, he didn't change the formation at all he was just hoping that he will get lucky and that's it. 

I don't think he actually appreciates Kovacic there, he was having more than just a decent game and he was going more forward as time was passing but then Lampard puts in the young Gilmour, how was Gilmour going to improve us there exactly? Just a default, no risk gameplan and whatever happens happens... When we are behind he must take a risk and really change things.

We need to buy another winger, our tactics today were basically play it outwide to James, cross and hope. Its mental we paid all that money for Havertz and Werner to play them out of position.

Needs to sort out what we're doing with our two German signings amongst other things, neither have any confidence at the moment and look unsuited to the way we seem to usually play.

Lampard is getting it right in the games we are expected to dominate, but against the teams around us, it's just not happening. We have faced Liverpool, Man Utd, Tottenham, Everton and Southampton and failed to get a win against any of them. 3 draws and 2 defeats, and 3 of them were at home. If we can't take maximum points from any of these games, then we can forget about going for the title, we'll be fighting for top 4.

Just now, jack_super_class said:

We need to buy another winger, our tactics today were basically play it outwide to James, cross and hope. Its mental we paid all that money for Havertz and Werner to play them out of position.

In fairness though, what can Lampard do? It's the only place he can play them, Pulisic is made of glass, Ziyech after a troubling spell with injures goes down again, Callum Hudson again is out injured. That's looking to be 3 injury prone wingers/attackers right there. It's not good enough, it's going to cost us in the long run big time. 

How can we look to be challenging for titles with these 3 players? Yeah they've got the abillity for sure, even CHO. But they aren't reliable, you never know when one of them is going to pull out with an injury. 

Just now, jack_super_class said:

We need to buy another winger, our tactics today were basically play it outwide to James, cross and hope. Its mental we paid all that money for Havertz and Werner to play them out of position.

Totally agree. Havertz and Werner should only be starting in the positions that we signed them to play in. If our current wingers are truly sicknotes then we may need to offload them. I still reckon we should have signed Benrahma as a 4th option. That being said I would rather start with Anjorin than play Havertz or Werner on the wing.

Just now, Scott Harris said:

Lampard is getting it right in the games we are expected to dominate, but against the teams around us, it's just not happening. We have faced Liverpool, Man Utd, Tottenham, Everton and Southampton and failed to get a win against any of them. 3 draws and 2 defeats, and 3 of them were at home. If we can't take maximum points from any of these games, then we can forget about going for the title, we'll be fighting for top 4.

I don't realistically see us challenging for the title this year. We will hopefully be closer to the top but I think this team is still too inexperienced.

I think he has to play Havertz to justify the signing, like how Conte doggedly played Bakayoko until it became unbearable.

3 minutes ago, jack h said:

Needs to sort out what we're doing with our two German signings amongst other things, neither have any confidence at the moment and look unsuited to the way we seem to usually play.

One thing is for certain, both Havertz and Werner weren't bought in to be played on the wing, and that is where Werner has been playing in nearly every game he has played for us. Get him up front and settled. I know Hudson-Odoi is injured now, but he is the one that should have been filling in for Pulisic when Pulisic is out injured, not Werner.

As for Havertz, it looks like he has been rushed into the team too soon. I think Lampard should have done with him what he did with Pulisic when he first signed for us. Give him time to settle before throwing him in to the first team in every game. Havertz has a lot of work to do to adapt his game to the Premier League.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

One thing is for certain, both Havertz and Werner weren't bought in to be played on the wing, and that is where Werner has been playing in nearly every game he has played for us. Get him up front and settled. I know Hudson-Odoi is injured now, but he is the one that should have been filling in for Pulisic when Pulisic is out injured, not Werner.

As for Havertz, it looks like he has been rushed into the team too soon. I think Lampard should have done with him what he did with Pulisic when he first signed for us. Give him time to settle before throwing him in to the first team in every game. Havertz has a lot of work to do to adapt his game to the Premier League.

Exactly my thoughts, posted similar in Kai's thread.  Both Werner and Havertz, imo, are suffering from being played out of position.  They're both compounding the issue a little too with some rather sloppy play!

 

3 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

I think he has to play Havertz to justify the signing, like how Conte doggedly played Bakayoko until it became unbearable.

It's still him not using his players correctly. He has the freedom to change the formation but he is just filling in the default formation regardless of who he has in the squad. Carlo changed his formation often, why is Lampard not taking any different approach is beyond me, he's not supposed to be like Sarri...

2 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Get him up front and settled.

Better fix his first touch and finishing in that case.

You can't be the focal point in 4-3-3 with a touch as bad as his is currently. Need someone who's able to bring others into play as well and currently i am unconvinced he'd be able to.

2 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Exactly my thoughts, posted similar in Kai's thread.  Both Werner and Havertz, imo, are suffering from being played out of position.  They're both compounding the issue a little too with some rather sloppy play!

 

They are both being asked to do things that don't suit their game. Both Werner and Havertz are more famous for their goal scoring abilities, not their build up play. I have barely seen Havertz get into the box for us since he joined.

6 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Better fix his first touch and finishing in that case.

You can't be the focal point in 4-3-3 with a touch as bad as his is currently. Need someone who's able to bring others into play as well and currently i am unconvinced he'd be able to.

Werner's touch is mostly fine when he is running at the defence, it's when he is facing away from goal that he struggles with. He's not your typical winger, he isn't somebody that is good in tight spaces and can create clever pieces of play with his touches and passing, he's a striker with a lot of pace being asked to play wide. The finishing, yeah, it needs to be sharper, but he missed a lot of chances at Leipzig too, but it's something I believe he will put right if he plays as a striker regularly.

I'm a bit dissapointed in Frank tonight. I thought that for sure he was going to go with 3 at the back considering all of our wingers are injured. That way Chilwell and James could play as wb's and neither of Werner or Havertz would have to play on the wing. 

3-5-2 was the way to go here and tbh I was shocked when i didnt see it in the second half at least when it was clear that James is our only attacking threat lol

Bringing Gilmoure on was icing on the cake. What was he trying to do with that change?