15 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I'm devastated myself; we all are. But I think we must face reality here and accept that Frank might not be the man for this job. I'm weighing all the pros and cons in my head constantly, but subconsciously I've had a terrible feeling in my gut all month watching this team. Since Leeds it's been piss poor, and we can't persist with one good result, then another draw or loss. 

I think we should give Gilmour some games in the midfield. It might backfire given how young he is, but I think we could do with someone who will try to take risks and get the ball forward, because right now that midfield is running out of ideas, the core problems lie there for me. Although, it doesn't help when your key players can't finish their dinner. 

His work last season, excellent squad building and fixing the defense for this season buys him time for me but he has to start showing some encouragement again, all i want is belief that we're on a good trajectory (which i felt all of last season). I can even take dodgy results if there's good football and signs of building something in the process but the last 6 games (Krasnador on top of league games) have been diabolical and 6 games can quickly turn to 12, then 18.

Edited December 30, 20205 yr by Argo

I thought the idea of Frank and Jody was that we would utilise the riches of our academy.

Now we've brought in over half a team of players mostly from abroad and clearly our performances are no where near last seasons.

I honestly think we should have concentrated on the defence , which has improved with new players, but we are trying to shoehorn new players into unfamiliar positions and in a team and league in which they are also unfamiliar with..

Werner thrives on space and pace but too often he gets the ball when he is static.

surely Frank can see the problems and has the ability to fix it ?

 

 

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

His work last season, excellent squad building and fixing the defense for this season buys him time for me but he has to start showing some encouragement again, all i want is belief that we're on a good trajectory (which i felt all of last season). I can even take dodgy results if there's good football and signs of building something in the process but the last 6 games (Krasnador on top of league games) have been diabolical and 6 games can quickly turn to 12, then 18.

By the end of this season I wanted to look at this team and go "yep, this team can challenge and win the league, we just need one player here or there and we are golden." 

Right now, I don't think I'm going to be saying that. Defence there's an improvement but even that's temporary. Thiago Silva? How long has he got left exactly? Kurt Zouma? Very hit and miss, very prone to mistakes and lapses of concentration, without a good partner he's lost. 

With Liverpool we saw that they were good going forward, they just needed a better defence. Once that got sorted, Klopp was challenging for the league. We got a better defence, but our attack looks toothless again. It looks like we'll have to revert to another way of playing for the time being which is something I was scared of. Last season we saw what happened when we kept changing our style of play. 

With a very good chance of City game being cancelled and Morecambe - They’re having an outbreak too.

So now we’ve actually got time to implement tactics and change things up abit. Lampard barely had time to implement different tactics due to a clusterf*ck fixture list.

I am fully expecting to see a completely different team next game assuming we don’t play for two weeks.

If there’s no sign of improvement or the way we attack, I’ll be concerned.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Yeah and why did they get Klopp? Because they were sharp in sacking their previous three manager's when things broke down, one just over a year after after a strong title challenge and another despite status as a club legend.

I don't think Lampard is currently at that point but if the sad moment comes it will be in no one's best interests to cling on, least of all his.

They also had much less expectations and much more patience than us, which is a very important factor.

There is no doubt that we made some strange decisions when it came down to our past managers.

Conte won the PL in his first season, complained like a madman in the second but still won the FA Cup and was leaving anyway because of not being capable of being in the same room with our board.
Carlo won the PL as well, second season came 2nd after Man Utd and lost to them in the CL and he was sacked, after him we couldn't even finish second for the next 3 seasons, the very next one we were 6th, but then we won the league again after 4 seasons, only to finish 10th the very next season afterwards.

You give that Conte and Carlo to Liverpool and they wouldn't have sacked them with those results, guaranteed they would have kept their jobs.

Liverpool was also lucky when it came down to selling Coutinho because Klopp's tactic's don't really involve that type of a player he was fine selling Coutinho as his system didn't suffer much at all, if anything it allowed him to build his own team further.
We were unlucky when Conte said that he has faith in Morata to lead our attack, but that's the difference there, we needed a new player to replace D.Costa while Liverpool was fine with losing their best player, everything just aligned for them.

Edited December 30, 20205 yr by Gol15

Lampard can turn this strange season around, it would be typical for us to do it. If there is some extra room for training we will come back much much stronger.

We suffer from the lack of experience, our key players, Mount, Pulisic, CHO are still young so the consistency is harder to achieve but we have the quality to make a good run in 2021.

Look at how we were in control in that first half, we could have scored more goals and fact is Villa only scored in a cheeky way, without it we keep a clean sheet and a win:

Thats 40 seconds of pure buildup to our leading goal, we do have the quality we just lack some consistency.

Edited December 30, 20205 yr by Gol15

It seems to me we are missing Barkley, who instead of going sideways would go forward and draw the foul or have a decent shot.

Not having him on the bench limits our options.

6 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

It seems to me we are missing Barkley, who instead of going sideways would go forward and draw the foul or have a decent shot.

Not having him on the bench limits our options.

That first 20 minutes we got from Jorginho in the West Ham game was something we've been missing a lot this season. But Jorginho isn't the answer, because he can't consistently play well. If we just had one player in the middle who would actually take the risks and pass the ball forward. 

It would help if Havertz found his feet already. 

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

That first 20 minutes we got from Jorginho in the West Ham game was something we've been missing a lot this season. But Jorginho isn't the answer, because he can't consistently play well. If we just had one player in the middle who would actually take the risks and pass the ball forward. 

It would help if Havertz found his feet already. 

I took a look at Havertz best moments on Youtube and he has a different skillset, running from midfield to receive the ball and chip the keeper, no shots outside the box.

4 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I took a look at Havertz best moments on Youtube and he has a different skillset, running from midfield to receive the ball and chip the keeper, no shots outside the box.

It's not so much shots outside the box, it's just making things happen and running with the ball. Something only Pulisic does in the team, when Pulisic gets the ball and drives the ball forward, who else does that really? Nobody. 

Not saying that's the only requirement, but there's just too much sideways passing and static play. That's why I think it's worth giving Gilmour a punt, why not? I know it was only Krasnodar but Gilmour was always looking to play the ball forward in that game. He might actually offer soemthing different and spice our play up a bit. It's not wise to rely on a 19 year old kid, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get the chance in that role. 

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

It's not so much shots outside the box, it's just making things happen and running with the ball. Something only Pulisic does in the team, when Pulisic gets the ball and drives the ball forward, who else does that really? Nobody. 

Not saying that's the only requirement, but there's just too much sideways passing and static play. That's why I think it's worth giving Gilmour a punt, why not? I know it was only Krasnodar but Gilmour was always looking to play the ball forward in that game. He might actually offer soemthing different and spice our play up a bit. It's not wise to rely on a 19 year old kid, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get the chance in that role. 

Gilmour is progressive trying to move the ball forward though not sure if he has the explosive strength to do a one-two in midfield and then shoot with power.

This is what we need as an alternative to keep going down the wings chucking over crosses for one forward.

Another option is to get a midfielder like Deli Alli (not my favourite player) who make can make late runs into the box and head the crosses.

https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1344682623189319684?s=19

On 30/12/2020 at 10:26, Slojo said:

That first 20 minutes we got from Jorginho in the West Ham game was something we've been missing a lot this season. But Jorginho isn't the answer, because he can't consistently play well. If we just had one player in the middle who would actually take the risks and pass the ball forward. 

It would help if Havertz found his feet already. 

Havertz was supposed to be that guy. And I still think he will be eventually.  

Expectations to be title challengers this year were unrealistic.....we were fortunate to make top 4 last league given our squad, and only made it because of insane form from pulisic and Giroud....OK we brought alot of guys in with talent but injuries to ziyech, covid for havertz and bad form from Timo has put us where we are today.

I still feel positive  we are going to make top 4.  I feel our guys will come good. 

What worries me the most is the lack of passion and intensity. It seems like most players don't even really care or are just not hungry enough. Maybe it has to do with the lack of people in attendance but there really is no excuse for this lackadaisical play. 

 

After a difficult December, comes a tough January. 

2 hours ago, Browerkid said:

Havertz was supposed to be that guy. And I still think he will be eventually.  

Expectations to be title challengers this year were unrealistic.....we were fortunate to make top 4 last league given our squad, and only made it because of insane form from pulisic and Giroud....OK we brought alot of guys in with talent but injuries to ziyech, covid for havertz and bad form from Timo has put us where we are today.

I still feel positive  we are going to make top 4.  I feel our guys will come good. 

I do agree but I'm not confident on getting top 4 at all. 

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

 

After a difficult December, comes a tough January. 

Oh please. It may prove to be difficult but it really should not be.

City are supposedly missing players because of Covid, and they are still by far the most difficult opponent on paper to face.

Fulham are sh*t. Yes so were Arsenal, but we really should have learned our lesson if not these players need a good slap.

Wolves and burnley are organized outfits but lack any real quality, match their effort and then you beat them. Pulisic and Ziyech should be tipping their defences wide open.

Leicester remain a dark horse but again match their effort and we are vastly better in terms of quality.

We are good enough to take at least 13 points from those league games. 15 if we step it up against City. 

The players just need a good hard kick up the a$$ and to get over the usual end of year hangover they get almost every single season.

A couple of weeks a ago De Buyne was off the pace, not able to find his shooting or passing range.

Last time out I see he is now back to his best. 

56 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

A couple of weeks a ago De Buyne was off the pace, not able to find his shooting or passing range.

Last time out I see he is now back to his best. 

Oh well thanks very much, because I was very confident before this City game, that might have just confirmed it, we're definitely winning 5-0 now. 

Thanks Strider, want to tell me Vincent Kompany and Yaya Toure have rejoined the team and are back back in their primes? 

On 30/12/2020 at 12:47, Slojo said:

I say it's silly because I keep hearing the same analogy over and over again. And I do understand it, I just think it's silly when you put both managers together on paper. Liverpool were improving under Klopp, after he had to pick up the scraps from Rodgers in 2015, they finished 8th sure. After that he got them in top 4 twice, then he immediately challenged for the title. But given Klopps previous success at Dortmund, it seemed obvious for them that Liverpool would eventually improve under him with the right resources and they did. 

Where's the evidence for this under Frank? I'm not saying it's all bad. He did a great job last season, a fantastic job even. But we need to be doing better right now, our form in the last 6 weeks has been unacceptable. If this continues to carry on for the next two months, I don't think he's the right man for the job and the club should pull the plug and get a better alternative. 

In other words it took him three seasons to work things out and stamp his own ideas on the squad. Lampard is a season and a half through this transition - new signings, particularly outside the Premier League, take time to settle down and bed-in. Ziyech was the quickest to adapt to the pace of the League and looked like being the focus of the attack until he got injured. Werner is obviously suffering from a lack of confidence when it comes to scoring and in the last few games has become so self-absorbed that he is neglecting the team's needs. I also think part of Lampard's problem stemmed from not releasing either Jorginho or Kante before the start of this season - they are not compatible when playing together but Lampard seems stuck on playing one or the other to the detriment of a settled style of play. I didn't have any expectation of Chelsea before the season started, even with the big transfer fees but the fact that we are only seven points behind Liverpool at this stage of the season when we were more than double that last year still leaves me with hope that we can at least challenge the top four - the games against City and Spurs will tell a lot.

The Lampard appointment was made knowing that he didn't have much experience and that he wouldn't be able to make signings until this season so I don't see the Board pulling the plug before the end of the season unless we drop into the relegation battle(!). We may not see the best of this team or Lampard until next season. Chelsea won't win the Champions League so the idea that he would be sacked for not winning a knock-out game against one of the best teams in Spain is not realistic and the best hope of winning something is, yet again, the FA Cup...

1 minute ago, SaS said:

In other words it took him three seasons to work things out and stamp his own ideas on the squad. Lampard is a season and a half through this transition - new signings, particularly outside the Premier League, take time to settle down and bed-in. Ziyech was the quickest to adapt to the pace of the League and looked like being the focus of the attack until he got injured. Werner is obviously suffering from a lack of confidence when it comes to scoring and in the last few games has become so self-absorbed that he is neglecting the team's needs. I also think part of Lampard's problem stemmed from not releasing either Jorginho or Kante before the start of this season - they are not compatible when playing together but Lampard seems stuck on playing one or the other to the detriment of a settled style of play. I didn't have any expectation of Chelsea before the season started, even with the big transfer fees but the fact that we are only seven points behind Liverpool at this stage of the season when we were more than double that last year still leaves me with hope that we can at least challenge the top four - the games against City and Spurs will tell a lot.

The Lampard appointment was made knowing that he didn't have much experience and that he wouldn't be able to make signings until this season so I don't see the Board pulling the plug before the end of the season unless we drop into the relegation battle(!). We may not see the best of this team or Lampard until next season. Chelsea won't win the Champions League so the idea that he would be sacked for not winning a knock-out game against one of the best teams in Spain is not realistic and the best hope of winning something is, yet again, the FA Cup...

Yes, but they were actually looking good beforehand under Klopp, their defence just kept letting them down. 

Right now do we really look good? Unless we get pulled out of this dump we are currently in that is, but I doubt it. What evidence is there that Lampard can do what Klopp did? You can't fault people for questioning his CV, the sad reality is, for a manager who's started his career here (pretty much) he's going to have to succeed otherwise there won't be much time, but a lot of time for doubt. Say if he came here after winning the Ligue 1 with Marseille, we would all be saying "Look, we've seen what he's done on paper elsewhere at top level, he can do it here, he just needs the time". 

Can we say that now? Granted last season was a great acheivement for Frank, but that's not silverware. And from November time we were very hit and miss, win one, lose one, that season was a mess. Right now we're lucky if we can win one, one game won in 6 with City and Leicester up next, that's deeply concerning. I see very promising things sometimes, and I think "Am I being too harsh here? Too fickle?" But then I see some of our recent performances and it reminds me of last season, the same mistakes, the loss of ideas and motiviation. What's to say this doesn't happen again if we keep Frank for another season? 

9 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Yes, but they were actually looking good beforehand under Klopp, their defence just kept letting them down. 

Right now do we really look good? Unless we get pulled out of this dump we are currently in that is, but I doubt it. What evidence is there that Lampard can do what Klopp did? You can't fault people for questioning his CV, the sad reality is, for a manager who's started his career here (pretty much) he's going to have to succeed otherwise there won't be much time, but a lot of time for doubt. Say if he came here after winning the Ligue 1 with Marseille, we would all be saying "Look, we've seen what he's done on paper elsewhere at top level, he can do it here, he just needs the time". 

Can we say that now? Granted last season was a great acheivement for Frank, but that's not silverware. And from November time we were very hit and miss, win one, lose one, that season was a mess. Right now we're lucky if we can win one, one game won in 6 with City and Leicester up next, that's deeply concerning. I see very promising things sometimes, and I think "Am I being too harsh here? Too fickle?" But then I see some of our recent performances and it reminds me of last season, the same mistakes, the loss of ideas and motiviation. What's to say this doesn't happen again if we keep Frank for another season? 

Just like Chelsea last year and that is an area that Lampard addressed, despite some reservations that Silva was past it or not up to the pace of the Premier League. We also boast the two best full-backs outside of Liverpool. 

As I said in my post, the Board knew that Lampard didn't have a CV or a chance to buy players until this season and gave him a three year contract - I still don't think the Board will act before the end of the season, if for no other reason, there are no realistic candidates to take over. Last season was an achievement, the Academy players were introduced as Chelsea fans have been clamouring for and have mostly been a success. Yes, November was worrying but, again, the new signings are taking time to adapt. If Chelsea are 10th in the League at the end of January then I may get worried but right now I'm not. 

Happy new year to you all.

The past 2 weeks or so have being the most difficult in my life financially and emotionally up to the point were i couldnt eat or sleep. On top of that Chelsea losing constantly seemed like a cursed two weeks.

I guess what am trying to say is that everyone has its ups and downs that often seem devastating. Lampard will be the first one upset and angry with recent results. Hopefully, Chelsea and Lampard will have more ups than downs this year 2021. I think the greatest chelsea player of all time deserves at least the same patience Solskjaer is afforded. 

5 minutes ago, Gentian said:

Happy new year to you all.

The past 2 weeks or so have being the most difficult in my life financially and emotionally up to the point were i couldnt eat or sleep. On top of that Chelsea losing constantly seemed like a cursed two weeks.

I guess what am trying to say is that everyone has its ups and downs that often seem devastating. Lampard will be the first one upset and angry with recent results. Hopefully, Chelsea and Lampard will have more ups than downs this year 2021. I think thSe greatest chelsea player of all time deserves at least the same patience Solskjaer is afforded. 

Sorry to hear that Gentian, I hope things get better for you and that there are more positive days ahead, I've been in your situation and it can seem hopeless but things do change and I really hope you have support close to you. Whatever Chelsea do on the pitch the Chelsea family is here for you and I hope there will be some comfort to be found among fellow members. 

21 minutes ago, Gentian said:

Happy new year to you all.

The past 2 weeks or so have being the most difficult in my life financially and emotionally up to the point were i couldnt eat or sleep. On top of that Chelsea losing constantly seemed like a cursed two weeks.

I guess what am trying to say is that everyone has its ups and downs that often seem devastating. Lampard will be the first one upset and angry with recent results. Hopefully, Chelsea and Lampard will have more ups than downs this year 2021. I think the greatest chelsea player of all time deserves at least the same patience Solskjaer is afforded. 

We all have bad times at some point in our lives mate. I hit a new low a couple of years ago which pushed me to dark thoughts.

I’m much better now though, you will come out of it being in a much better place eventually. Just got to ride the storm.

Happy new year.