22 minutes ago, Slojo said:

The more I look at it, I think there's definitely an issue with the midfield. 

Kante in the CDM role I actually like, I think that should be his role from now on, looks like those dinosaur pundits had a point. But other than that, there's nothing else really, no attacking threat. Mason Mount isn't doing enough for me, I like him, he's very underrated but I don't think we're getting enough. Kovacic who I'm a fan of has been average this season, very meh, he doesn't do enough going forward. Jorginho, don't need to say anymore. Havertz again, I don't need to say anymore. 

So really, we've only got 2 good performers if that, and even Kante is having a mare now and then, and Mount is like a passenger at times. 

Definitely a midfield issue, I think Kante changes his positioning game to game as well, I tihink Lamps wants him to play box to box ideally when he doesn't really have the leg for it anymore.

Kovacic can offer somehting going forward with his trademark runs but he can't shoot or find the killer pass.
For me a solution could be with Kante and Billy holding midfield, with Mason as a number 10, prioritising on attack and only pressing when needs be. We've changed him into a workhorse and lost him as a goalscoring threat as he's always so far from goal.

The downside is that our midfield will be comprised of very short players, but it's not like we have any big DMs anyway.

Hate wanting to see Lampard gone but damn, some of the football we’re playing is dire. Apart from spamming crosses we look clueless.

14 minutes ago, Nibs said:

It's weird how the goals have dried up as it wasn't that long ago that I'm sure we were the top scorers?

That was probably pre-Ziyech injury and we are definitely missing what he brought to the team. They'll be big pressure on him to hit the ground running on his return and start where he left off. 

Think all the ingredients of a good side are all there but Frank is struggling to get things to gel right now. Thought we looked a lot better today but Pulicic, although he played well, looked rusty in front of goal and we don't have too many others who look like scoring at present. Aain, that is where Werner and Havertz should be contributing and we can only hope they discover some form sooner rather than later.

Yep, but where we differ in opinion here is responsibility. I think Frank has to take most of it (I'm sure he is), it's not good enough. You can't just drop off like that. I don't even think at this point Ziyech coming back will drastically change things, the team as a whole are just playing really badly. The football is so slow and uncreative, and it doesn't help when you've got players like Werner who can't finish for sh*te. 

32 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Yep, but where we differ in opinion here is responsibility. I think Frank has to take most of it (I'm sure he is), it's not good enough. You can't just drop off like that. I don't even think at this point Ziyech coming back will drastically change things, the team as a whole are just playing really badly. The football is so slow and uncreative, and it doesn't help when you've got players like Werner who can't finish for sh*te. 

With a new squad and the sheer number of games the coaching just don't have the time to work on the playing patterns on the training ground, once the busy schedule is over I expect our performances to pick up especially with a few days to prepare for games. 

I think a large portion of the fans badly want to see Lampard become a superstar manager  like he was as a player with the emotional connection. They want the fairytale to be completed club hero comes home and returns PL, CL, FA Cup League Cup...etc and it’s hard for them to accept he may just be a another average manager who got a shot at the big team not on merit but on his name and his history with the club similar to Oli/Pirlo/Zidane/Pep. It’s hard to accept that maybe he’s just average and only time will tell.

I hope they give him three full years so there is no excuses to say he wasn’t given time. Maybe he proves he is a superstar manager we win the treble in the third year gets another three year’s and we dominate for years to come or we could struggle become the new Arsenal or old Liverpool and spent year’s in the lower top 10.

Only time will tell however!!

This game we have been relying on a 20 year old Hudson-Odoi, 21 year old Mount and 22 year old Pulisic to carry us.

Sadly our senior players can't make a difference, Giroud did score but still not enough for a win. At least the signing of Chilwell is making a difference out there but still not enough. Seems like I have overestimated our abilities, we're still in a transition season after all.

If we finish top 4 again it will be good enough for me to back Lampard for whatever he wants to do. I just hope he forgets about Christensen.

For now it looks like we are just not well drilled enough as a unit. It’s not about the midfield, the attack or the defence. We have the players to succeed. So this bad spell IS on Frank but, as before, I’m prepared to give him time to sort it out. He’s done it before, perhaps against the odds? Something I’ve said before so sorry to repeat: a lot of people don’t seem to fully appreciate just how hard it is to succeed as a football manager at the highest level. It’s mind-boggling how competitive it is. 

18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

This game we have been relying on a 20 year old Hudson-Odoi, 21 year old Mount and 22 year old Pulisic to carry us.

Sadly our senior players can't make a difference, Giroud did score but still not enough for a win. At least the signing of Chilwell is making a difference out there but still not enough. Seems like I have overestimated our abilities, we're still in a transition season after all.

If we finish top 4 again it will be good enough for me to back Lampard for whatever he wants to do. I just hope he forgets about Christensen.

Good point about the young ages of the players we are relying on. Someone made a point about Mount playing further back which is true although he still manages to have at least one attempt I think today he had a shot charged down on the edge of the box. Perhaps fatigue has caught up with Mount today. 

It seems to me although we do cross a lot we are also having other attempts yet not hitting the target, Mount, Kovacic, Werner and today Kante had two shots. Not sure what that signifies, bad luck or something else. 

If bad luck that should change, might be too late for Frank though.

 

Lampard will not get another £200 or even £100 million to spend based on his current acquisitions, I can’t see the board giving him more money just can’t because he simply proved so far he doesn’t know how to use talent unless their roles a clearly defined ie Chilwell and Mendy. He doesn’t know how to use both Timo or Havertz and as such they look horrible when they were lighting up Bundesliga last season. 
Now imagine he spent £120 million on Sancho what makes you think he can get Sancho firing? 
Club won’t take that risk I believe they backed him fully already so now he has to deliver.

Edited December 28, 20205 yr by Brutos

Won't lie, this past month is beyond worrying, mainly because these current problem's seem more structural than personnel and once it gets to that point you have to look at the manager. Last season it was obvious that our defense would improve once Kepa and the LB's from hell were out and a commanding CB was brought in and it did. Looking at our attacking play lately has been brutal and unlike last year with the defense, we have the personnel to be playing so so much better.

Edited December 28, 20205 yr by Argo

7 minutes ago, Brutos said:

Lampard will not get another £200 or even £100 million to spend based on his current acquisitions, I can’t see the board giving him more money just can’t because he simply proved so far he doesn’t know how to use talent unless their roles a clearly defined ie Chilwell and Mendy. He doesn’t know how to use both Timo or Havertz and as such they look horrible when they were lighting up Bundesliga last season. 
Now imagine he spent £120 million on Sancho what makes you think he can get Sancho firing? 
Club won’t take that risk I believe they backed him fully already so now he has to deliver.

The club should give him 100m. Bamba + Rice. Or Rice + CB once T.Silva leaves.

"Won't lie, this past month is beyond worrying, mainly because these current problem's seem more structural than personnel and once it gets to that point you have to look at the manager. Last season it was obvious to anyone with eyes that our defense would improve once Kepa and the LB's from hell were out and a commanding CB was brought in and it did, looking at our attacking play lately has been brutal and unlike last year with the defense, we have the personnel to be playing so so much better."

And Sarri had that same LB and GK, and David Luiz and still conceded less.

22 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

This game we have been relying on a 20 year old Hudson-Odoi, 21 year old Mount and 22 year old Pulisic to carry us.

Sadly our senior players can't make a difference, Giroud did score but still not enough for a win. At least the signing of Chilwell is making a difference out there but still not enough. Seems like I have overestimated our abilities, we're still in a transition season after all.

If we finish top 4 again it will be good enough for me to back Lampard for whatever he wants to do. I just hope he forgets about Christensen.

AC wasn't the f**king reason, and maybe Lampard realises Zouma offers f**k all as a player, defender yes, but a ball player never, in fact only Chilwell or sometimes AC and silva try a more radical pass, the modern game is transitioning the ball quicker to midfield, not watching some 3D version of Pong Tennis across the back 4 ad finitum...

4 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

"Won't lie, this past month is beyond worrying, mainly because these current problem's seem more structural than personnel and once it gets to that point you have to look at the manager. Last season it was obvious to anyone with eyes that our defense would improve once Kepa and the LB's from hell were out and a commanding CB was brought in and it did, looking at our attacking play lately has been brutal and unlike last year with the defense, we have the personnel to be playing so so much better."

And Sarri had that same LB and GK, and David Luiz and still conceded less.

Sarri (who I liked) protected the defense by playing LVG style keep ball while Lampard decided to be more direct at the expense of defensive solidarity. Sarri also had the luxury of the best player in the league to make the difference in tight games (and give more scope for a cautious approach).

Both different approaches but both worked in those season's as they achieved the best league result realistically possible with the squads they had (top four).

Including the Leeds game there are 3 things in particular Lamps will no doubt be concerned with.

1, what happened to our impressive defence.?Mendy was a wall and we kept so many clean sheets. Not we cannot stop letting goals in.

2. We are not producing the final ball well enough. Before we were the league top scorers and looked so good going forward, now the link up is often poor and we are not creating enough.

3. Last 5 games we have gone ahead in 3 of them and only gotten 4 points, whereas once we went behind we clawed no points back. Makes our mentality look weak.

Frank Lampardew 

It's a real shame that we're a long way off getting a full capacity home game. If we had one in normal world circumstances I think the fans would make it pretty clear how the majority of us feel about sticking with Frank. Being frustrated with our form of the last month is understandable and questioning whether Frank is on track to earning another contract is also understanable. I can't though, get my head round how people can seriously advocate getting rid now or before the end of the season. Think some need to give themselves a reality check about what their expectations should be despite how frustrating things are at present.

The team is playing sh*te at the moment, some of that is down to Frank, some is down to the players and some is simply luck and circumstance. Ultimately the manager has to take responsibility for everything but he's shown plenty enough in his time as manager to have earnt the rest of the season at the very, very least, anything less is a massive over-expectation and a complete lack of patience.

Spending what we spent in the summer and what we are seeing on the park tells its own story. Chelsea or at least Roman doesn't do sentiment so perfoamces will need to improve drastically or we will have another manager. History shows this, no point being ignorant to the trend. 

"Both different approaches but both worked in those season's as they achieved the best league result realistically possible with the squads they had (top four)."

Yes... but Sarri did it with 72 points and a 24 GD, Lampard followed that with 66 and a 15 GD.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

This game we have been relying on a 20 year old Hudson-Odoi, 21 year old Mount and 22 year old Pulisic to carry us.

Sadly our senior players can't make a difference, Giroud did score but still not enough for a win. At least the signing of Chilwell is making a difference out there but still not enough. Seems like I have overestimated our abilities, we're still in a transition season after all.

If we finish top 4 again it will be good enough for me to back Lampard for whatever he wants to do. I just hope he forgets about Christensen.

Good post. We are a very young side, it will need time to come together,question is will Lamps be given the required time? History tells us not. Back in the early 80s Palace were going to be the team of the decade, young team plenty of potential. Are we looking at similar?

30 minutes ago, charierre said:

Back in the early 80s Palace were going to be the team of the decade, young team plenty of potential. Are we looking at similar?

Absolutely not when your best centre forward is 36 years old.

38 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

"Both different approaches but both worked in those season's as they achieved the best league result realistically possible with the squads they had (top four)."

Yes... but Sarri did it with 72 points and a 24 GD, Lampard followed that with 66 and a 15 GD.

The league has continued to get tougher, as seen with Leicester, Southampton and Everton maintaining or improving their form from last season. 

40 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

"Both different approaches but both worked in those season's as they achieved the best league result realistically possible with the squads they had (top four)."

Yes... but Sarri did it with 72 points and a 24 GD, Lampard followed that with 66 and a 15 GD.

Sarri had Eden Hazard.

3 hours ago, Slojo said:

The more I look at it, I think there's definitely an issue with the midfield. 

Kante in the CDM role I actually like, I think that should be his role from now on, looks like those dinosaur pundits had a point. But other than that, there's nothing else really, no attacking threat. Mason Mount isn't doing enough for me, I like him, he's very underrated but I don't think we're getting enough. Kovacic who I'm a fan of has been average this season, very meh, he doesn't do enough going forward. Jorginho, don't need to say anymore. Havertz again, I don't need to say anymore. 

So really, we've only got 2 good performers if that, and even Kante is having a mare now and then, and Mount is like a passenger at times. 

I'm no big fan of Jorginho but let's think about what he was bought for...Sarri ball; to keep the ball moving forward, to be the one dictating the tempo of the game when we have the ball.  He can thread passes and play a ball over the top, we've all seen him do it when the players in front of him are moving the defence around.  That part of his game is sadly gone and it's down to tactics IMO; movement up front down the middle has gone stale as a large majority of the balls now go left or right in the hope James or Chilwell can get a cross in...to who I don't know, because when they do eventually put a cross in a large majority of the time our forwards are too slow to anticipate and our attacking midfielders are nowhere to be seen;  Might want to consider bringing Barkley back in January if that's possible because unless we start getting goals from midfield we will stay in mid-table. 

Frank Lampard is 3 seasons into his managerial career, and two of those seasons are at the top level of football. That is mental when you think about it. He never coached the youth academy like many top coaches have done in the past. He was never an assistant coach. He went straight into coaching at Championship level and took Derby to the play off finals, losing out to Aston Villa. Then he takes the Chelsea job and takes us to top four despite many people thinking he wouldn't do so, especially after the loss of our best player. This season he brought in half a new first team, some of them starting up with the team later on due to injury or match fitness. I do think some people are being overly harsh on him considering some of the players are still adapting to the league and style of play. 

Edited December 29, 20205 yr by enigma