The only manager I would want if Lampard was to be fired (and I don't think he should be or want him to be) would be Allegri. Proven track record of trophies and doing well in the CL. No point messing about with anyone else imo. 

3 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I couldn’t have said it better myself. (Chelsea fan from a different forum.)

“If we won yesterday we would have moved second and people are calling for his head? http://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji23.png

It was a poor result and performance but we’re far from crisis mode.

The summer spending was always exaggerated because of the transfer ban and selling of Morata and Hazard for huge sums but even still, we’ve had a single game where all our summer signings have been available.

Frank needs to do better but he’s not doing bad either.”

People need to get a grip.If it was anyone else (except for maybe Drogba and Terry for obvious reasons) you would be telling a different story now.All this talk after we've been humiliated by and Arsenal with a Xhaka-Elneny midfield and with Martinelli ,Smith Rowe and Saka in front of them ffs.You just cant use that excuse of an incomplete team anymore.Everyone has problems with injuries.We lost to an Everton team that played without Rodriguez and against a Wolves team that played without Jimenez.In the end we managed to lose to an Arsenal team that played without Aubameyang and with the attack consisting of three youngsters with Lacazette in front of them.

Can't wait for someone to now mention our wins against the mighty Burnley and Sheffield United as an argument that Frank is doing well.It's just not the case because he's gonna lose touch to the top very soon if we continue like this .Hell we were lucky that in these few rounds,teams at the top played and took points of each other,else we would be in even tougher situation.

 

22 minutes ago, enigma said:

The only manager I would want if Lampard was to be fired (and I don't think he should be or want him to be) would be Allegri. Proven track record of trophies and doing well in the CL. No point messing about with anyone else imo. 

So you would want us to play "just shoot me in the head now" football every match then?

8 minutes ago, mm24 said:

People need to get a grip.If it was anyone else (except for maybe Drogba and Terry for obvious reasons) you would be telling a different story now.All this talk after we've been humiliated by and Arsenal with a Xhaka-Elneny midfield and with Martinelli ,Smith Rowe and Saka in front of them ffs.You just cant use that excuse of an incomplete team anymore.Everyone has problems with injuries.We lost to an Everton team that played without Rodriguez and against a Wolves team that played without Jimenez.In the end we managed to lose to an Arsenal team that played without Aubameyang and with the attack consisting of three youngsters with Lacazette in front of them.

Can't wait for someone to now mention our wins against the mighty Burnley and Sheffield United as an argument that Frank is doing well.It's just not the case because he's gonna lose touch to the top very soon if we continue like this .Hell we were lucky that in these few rounds,teams at the top played and took points of each other,else we would be in even tougher situation.

 

Troll alert! Where do you hide when things go well? I’ve just checked your posting history, nothing good to say about our team, you just come here to bang on about how bad Lamps is. You Chels or spud in disguise? Anything good about Chelsea you want to share with us? 

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by RMH

5 minutes ago, RMH said:

Troll alert! Where do you hide when things go well? I’ve just checked your posting history, nothing good to say about our team, you just come here to bang on about how bad Lamps is. You Chels or spud in disguise? Anything good about Chelsea you want to share with us? 

So you're saying that nothing I spoke about in my last post is true?  We didnt get beat by a team with Xhaka-Elneny midfield,Martinelli -Smith Rowe-Saka in front of them?

Wait,don't answer that.Just say i'm a troll.

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by mm24

3 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I couldn’t have said it better myself. (Chelsea fan from a different forum.)

Wait, you visit other Chelsea forums? What, we’re not good enough for you? I feel let down and betrayed...

1 minute ago, mm24 said:

So you're saying that nothing I spoke about in my last post is true?  We didnt get beat by a team with Xhaka-Elneny midfield,Martinelli -Smith Rowe-Saka in front of them?

I’m sure Bayern fans were saying the same thing about our team in 2012, sometimes the underdog wins.

3 minutes ago, mm24 said:

So you're saying that nothing I spoke about in my last post is true?  We didnt get beat by a team with Xhaka-Elneny midfield,Martinelli -Smith Rowe-Saka in front of them?

Wait,don't answer that.Just say i'm a troll.

What i think he is trying to tell you is that some people love to roll around in the sh*t, they come alive at the first whiff of pong.

Give his outstanding performance in Zetas prediction league if we part with Lamps the answer is right in front of us in our own Mod Stark! 

3 minutes ago, coco said:

What i think he is trying to tell you is that some people love to roll around in the sh*t, they come alive at the first whiff of pong.

Well I don't feel the need to post on here when we win as you guys don't come up with defeatist posts then which are annoying af.

Happy for Frank when he gets it right and hopefully he'll manage to turn this around,but the mistakes and decisions he makes week in and week out at the moment will only lead him to a sack.Even his post match interview last night was incredibly stupid for such an intelligent guy.I got Mourinho december 2015 vibes from him in that interview.

16 minutes ago, mm24 said:

So you're saying that nothing I spoke about in my last post is true?  We didnt get beat by a team with Xhaka-Elneny midfield,Martinelli -Smith Rowe-Saka in front of them?

Wait,don't answer that.Just say i'm a troll.

Even though I am agreeing with what you're saying. I also agree with them on this point, it's annoying to see the same people only come on here when we lose. What sort of message does that send exactly? Two types of people who do it. 1. Negative and Reactionary fans, 2. Trolls. Neither are good to have, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with 1. 

But for me this match is the tipping point, I can't look at that result and performance and be optimistic of the future under Frank, I'm not sure how anyone else can to be honest, I envy them. 

Just now, Slojo said:

Even though I am agreeing with what you're saying. I also agree with them on this point, it's annoying to see the same people only come on here when we lose. What sort of message does that send exactly? Two types of people who do it. 1. Negative and Reactionary fans, 2. Trolls. Neither are good to have, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with 1. 

But for me this match is the tipping point, I can't look at that result and performance and be optimistic of the future under Frank, I'm not sure how anyone else can to be honest, I envy them. 

Frank can still turn this around,but he played a dangeours game in last nights post match interview.Hopefully he'll get the reaction he wanted and not the reaction every other manager got when they criticized the players.

If we do well in our next 2 games we could get some confidence back in the team,but as you're saying it's hard to be optimistic at this point.

19 minutes ago, mm24 said:

People need to get a grip.If it was anyone else (except for maybe Drogba and Terry for obvious reasons) you would be telling a different story now.All this talk after we've been humiliated by and Arsenal with a Xhaka-Elneny midfield and with Martinelli ,Smith Rowe and Saka in front of them ffs.You just cant use that excuse of an incomplete team anymore.Everyone has problems with injuries.We lost to an Everton team that played without Rodriguez and against a Wolves team that played without Jimenez.In the end we managed to lose to an Arsenal team that played without Aubameyang and with the attack consisting of three youngsters with Lacazette in front of them.

Can't wait for someone to now mention our wins against the mighty Burnley and Sheffield United as an argument that Frank is doing well.It's just not the case because he's gonna lose touch to the top very soon if we continue like this .Hell we were lucky that in these few rounds,teams at the top played and took points of each other,else we would be in even tougher situation.

 

So we lost to Everton, Wolves and Arsenal despite them not having their best player.

Maybe we are overrated, maybe Mount isn't doing that much with the ball when he has it in the final third, maybe Kante isn't doing that much in his new role after all and maybe Tammy isn't really a top striker yet. 

Maybe Lampard couldn't see our limitations because of our run of 14-15 games without defeat, adding that some wins came from goals from the corner kick so all those results ended up with him having some fake sense of security that certain players can do the job any day of the week when in fact they actually can't.

But last season we managed to beat some of the top teams, now while having better players we somehow have a worse record, but how worse actually?

Well, last season after 15 games we had 9 wins and 4 loses, now we have 7 wins and 4 loses. So the difference from last season is 2 wins less, that's actually just 4 points less.

That can be solved in the next few games if we win them. The season isn't over yet so Lampard has enough time to bring back some of our players in good form.

5 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

So when Frank does well it's because other teams were bad but when he loses it's because he's not up to the job? 

You say that the focus has moved away from youth development but James, Mount, Abraham all started yesterday and Hudson-Odoi was bought on at half time. Lampard hasn't exactly abandoned that philosophy has he? 

Of the new signings the biggest money was invested in Havertz, Werner and Chilwell. Aged 21, 24 and 23 at the time of being signed. Hardly a move towards tried and tested experience is it? The two Germans are playing outside of their native country for the first time in their careers in a congested fixture list during a global pandemic (Havertz only recently having recovered from Covid). 

To me it reads that your own expectations for the club have now dramatically shifted and nothing short of a title challenge will do. 

Our form is bad, no denying that but in a campaign when Liverpool are the only traditional top 6 side playing consistently well I think expectations need to be tempered. Any manger trying to integrate six new players into his starting XI would struggle to get results consistently during the first half of the season. A manager who has had no pre season and the most hectic fixture list in living memory? I'd say Frank has done really well all things considered up till now. 

I do agree with a lot of points there. But let's not sugarcoat it with "other teams are doing bad" we are rapidly falling behind now, and another two defeats could have us in the bottom half which is very likely. 

If he loses his next two games, how do you defend that? That's not an imporvement on last season, we've gone backwards, that's unacceptable. Frank did really well in his first season, and before this sh*te month he was doing well again. But we have to be improving, a title challenge? No, I don't think so. But our expectations have definitely improved given the money we have spent. If this is happening again where the team goes to sleep after about 13/14 games, how do we trust the manager to sort this out next season when we absolutely must mount a title challenge? If he can keep losing the players like this at such pivotal moments. 

I'm sorry, I know we love Frank, and it's a dream come true having him be successful here. But we can't accept results and performances like that, a loss against Villa would be an absolute disaster, because if we lose against them, we have bob hope against City, that will be what? 1 win in 6? and 5 losses? On the bounce? Not good enough. 

23 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Wait, you visit other Chelsea forums? What, we’re not good enough for you? I feel let down and betrayed...

Haha! This is my Chelsea forum, and the other forum which I have been using longer than here is general football fans - It’s interesting to see what other fans are saying, even though Liverpool fans are insufferable!

I think the squad needs a little rest, fatigue played a big role last night. Arsenal had 6 players yesterday who were fresh and haven't played much football in the last few weeks whereas we had a playing 11 which have played football every 3-4 days and the ones who haven't such as Chilwell and Reece seemed like were rushed back for this game. 

14 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Anybody who comes through the academy should feel that way. They should feel the club in their bones.

Plus think of it this way, what chance do you think Mount, James, Tammy, CHO, Gilmour etc will have with a foreign manager who may well never have heard of them. Their Chelsea careers would likely be over so they need to be pulling up trees.

For example were Allergi in charge of us I could see him playing:

 

Kepa

 

Christensen

Silva

Rudiger

 

Azpi

Jorginho

Kovacic

Alonso

 

Havertz

 

Giroud

Werner

Hi. Juve fan here, just roaming.

Allegri does not play 3 at the back.

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

But we can't accept results and performances like that, a loss against Villa would be an absolute disaster, because if we lose against them, we have bob hope against City, that will be what? 1 win in 6? and 5 losses? On the bounce? Not good enough. 

That's short-termism thinking and not the way to run any successful business.

The high manager turnover at this club was great for short term success, but not one manager has managed to get the amount of time needed to build. the last 3-4 years we have not improved, maybe that's because w have had 3 very different managers in that time ? Every time we hit a crisis we sack them, for short term gains.

Give Frank his full contract time, unless we are in danger of being relegated.

 

1 minute ago, coco said:

That's short-termism thinking and not the way to run any successful business.

The high manager turnover at this club was great for short term success, but not one manager has managed to get the amount of time needed to build. the last 3-4 years we have not improved, maybe that's because w have had 3 very different managers in that time ? Every time we hit a crisis we sack them, for short term gains.

Give Frank his full contract time, unless we are in danger of being relegated.

 

Is this really the standard now though? Should we not be pushing for and demanding better? 

I do agree that anyone who expects a title challenge is being unrealistic, but we have to see an improvement. This absolute state that we are in right now, doesn't really give me much of an improvement, it looks the same. The keeper situation is sorted, brilliant, but the players are switching off again at pivotal moments. 

I'm not asking for Frank to be sacked, not right now with the games we've got. But I do think the club should be shortlisting managers and making calls to prepare, which they no doubt will be. I don't want to see this team to slump to the bottom half of the table come January and February, that will be awful. 
 

Just now, Imran_CFC said:

I think the squad needs a little rest, fatigue played a big role last night. Arsenal had 6 players yesterday who were fresh and haven't played much football in the last few weeks whereas we had a playing 11 which have played football every 3-4 days and the ones who haven't such as Chilwell and Reece seemed like were rushed back for this game. 

To be fair Lampard will play Mount most of the time anyway and probably Kante as well.

Arsenal had a Cup game against Man City after we had played our last game before having to play against Arsenal and El Nenny, Martinelli, Lacazette started that game so we can't really blame this on fatigue. It was Lampard's decision to include James and Chilwell from the start and he put Kovacic in the starting lineup after he didn't even play 30 minutes against West Ham and Wolves but he regretted it and changed him after the first half so it wasn't really a fatigue issue. 

Someone said that Arsenal players just wanted it more. We didn't really show up, only Pulisic and CHO played like they had something to prove but it's pretty obvious that tactically Lampard hasn't been getting the best out of Pulisic and Werner, he insisted on Werner playing at the position where Pulisic used to carry us last season and Pulisic needed to adapt on the other wing because of it and that takes some time so no wonder he hasn't made any goal/assist and even if Tammy is scoring goals for us he can spend some time not being seen in games at all.

It was one of those games where a lot of things just went wrong, Arsenal scored from the penalty spot, from a free kick and their 3rd goal was basically a total fluke. I'm not saying it as an excuse, Arsenal showed that they wanted to win while we went missing. 

 

42 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I do agree with a lot of points there. But let's not sugarcoat it with "other teams are doing bad" we are rapidly falling behind now, and another two defeats could have us in the bottom half which is very likely. 

If he loses his next two games, how do you defend that? That's not an imporvement on last season, we've gone backwards, that's unacceptable. Frank did really well in his first season, and before this sh*te month he was doing well again. But we have to be improving, a title challenge? No, I don't think so. But our expectations have definitely improved given the money we have spent. If this is happening again where the team goes to sleep after about 13/14 games, how do we trust the manager to sort this out next season when we absolutely must mount a title challenge? If he can keep losing the players like this at such pivotal moments. 

I'm sorry, I know we love Frank, and it's a dream come true having him be successful here. But we can't accept results and performances like that, a loss against Villa would be an absolute disaster, because if we lose against them, we have bob hope against City, that will be what? 1 win in 6? and 5 losses? On the bounce? Not good enough. 

It isn't good enough and Frank will know that more than anyone.

This season was always going to be tougher for Lamps because we all know he got a bit of a "free-hit" last season, what with losing Hazard, the transfer ban and blooding youngsters. So the recruitment of players was crucial and I wonder if he could go back now he would make the same decisions. I maintain there is a lot of luck in management. Sure, you get top coaches but they still have to rely on their players and who could honestly predict that Werner and Havertz would be as poor as they have been so far? I know folk will continue to argue that they are being played out of position, but good players should be able to perform ANYWHERE. At least show glimpses and change games, but these two have been a massive let down. Compare them to Fernandez at United.  OGS would be out of a job now if not for Fernandes but he has been consistently good and they now look likely to build the team around him. That's the sort of player we are missing and why we are floundering with players like Jorginho, Kovacic, Havertz. All okay players but not the type of players that will regularly win you games and make a REAL difference. We haven't had a player like that since Hazard departed. Pulicic and Ziyech can perhaps be that type of player if they can stay off the treatment table.

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by Nibs

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

So you would want us to play "just shoot me in the head now" football every match then?

Who else is out there with a proven track record of winning trophies with a big club? 

41 minutes ago, ILCAML said:

Hi. Juve fan here, just roaming.

Allegri does not play 3 at the back.

What does he play then?

31 minutes ago, Slojo said:

but we have to see an improvement.

we have seen an improvement in defence, a massive improvement, are we forgetting that ?, and the attack was firing great guns early doors, so we know we can be lethal. lets just give him time to figure it out. 

21 minutes ago, Nibs said:

It isn't good enough and Frank will know that more than anyone.

This season was always going to be tougher for Lamps because we all know he got a bit of a "free-hit" last season, what with losing Hazard, the transfer ban and blooding youngsters. So the recruitment of players was crucial and I wonder if he could go back now he would make the same decisions. I maintain there is a lot of luck in management. Sure, you get top coaches but they still have to rely on their players and who could honestly predict that Werner and Havertz would be as poor as they have been so far? I know folk will continue to argue that they are being played out of position, but good players should be able to perform ANYWHERE. At least show glimpses and change games, but these two have been a massive let down. Compare them to Fernandez at United.  OGS would be out of a job now if not for Fernandes but he has been consistently good and they now look likely to build the team around him. That's the sort of player we are missing and why we are floundering with players like Jorginho, Kovacic, Havertz. All okay players but not the type of players that will regularly win you games and make a REAL difference. We haven't had a player like that since Hazard departed. Pulicic and Ziyech can perhaps be that type of player if they can stay off the treatment table.

Reasonable take there. But again, it can't all just be blamed on the players, Arsenal beat us 3-1 with a C team, our best 11 bar Ziyech, there's no excuse. 

He has to get the best out of the players, if he can't do that then he isn't top manager material. You'll notice that I'm not actually criticising his recent comments, I think he's doing the right thing, the players need to take responsibility, but so is Frank. If the players keep playing this way, it's the manager who will have to go. 

11 minutes ago, enigma said:

Who else is out there with a proven track record of winning trophies with a big club? 

Stick with Lamps until his contract is up them reassess would be my vote. But if we had to go with one immediately I would sooner look at the now departed PSG manager.