4 minutes ago, 2211 said:

I think Frank needs to go full out for Declan Rice in January.

It will be the club who decides.

Lampard have to get Werner & Havertz firing first. The club will likely be vary of backing him further if initial investments doesn't work out. Seen it time and time again over the years.

4 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

We were poor rather than terrible, we had enough chances at the end to get level just could not get them on target. 

If we had scored the penalty perhaps Arsenal would have panicked and allowed an unlikely leveller. But overall we were poor for most of the game and got what we deserved. Apart from CHO running at them we really had very little in the way of creativity. When we scored it was more of a surprise than inevitable.

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

It will be the club who decides.

Lampard have to get Werner & Havertz firing first. The club will likely be vary of backing him further if initial investments doesn't work out. Seen it time and time again over the years.

I'm not sure that Declan Rice is the missing piece to the puzzle to be honest. 

22 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Getting close to the famous Jose one of "I feel betrayed".

Lamps knows the dressing room of Chdlsea cause he was a player in it for many years. He is also not a stupid man. He chose those words and he knows what they can do. 

To me saying something like that where, to paraphrase here, he basically says the players did not care enough to put decent work in and did not give a sh*t. However true that is to point that out in public has lost Chelsea managers the dressing room.

Now I have heard that I believe Frank now feels he is on borrowed time.

Real shame to see Frank in this situation. He has been the soul of this club as a player, and he cares deeply now, but this is just not working out. I absolutely loathed the fat spanish waiter and Sarri and was happy to see the door smacking the backside of both imposters, but I want Frank to go now on good terms to learn the trade elsewhere and prosper in his coaching career.

1 minute ago, Stas1 said:

Real shame to see Frank in this situation. He has been the soul of this club as a player, and he cares deeply now, but this is just not working out. I absolutely loathed the fat spanish waiter and Sarri and was happy to see the door smacking the backside of both imposters, but I want Frank to go now on good terms to learn the trade elsewhere and prosper in his coaching career.

In the past a manager making such comments would be regarded as throwing the teacups at the players. Fergie did that plenty of times. In the modern game it is sad if we immediately think the manager has lost the dressing room when he openly criticises them. 

48 hours later he'll be taking these knackered players to Villa, what happens if we lose that one?

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

In the past a manager making such comments would be regarded as throwing the teacups at the players. Fergie did that plenty of times. In the modern game it is sad if we immediately think the manager has lost the dressing room when he openly criticises them. 

I can only judge by seeing our players going half-hardheartedly through motions. Mind you, Frank is lucky that we currently do not have real strong head rebellious individuals in the dressing room like Diego Costa, otherwise the dressing room would be in full-on mutiny by now.

5 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

48 hours later he'll be taking these knackered players to Villa, what happens if we lose that one?

Well for one I think he cannot pick 3 of the back 4.

Asking Silva to play twice in 3 days and James and Chilwell likewise after injury is asking for trouble. 

For another think Villa is irrelevant. Frank sounded a man consigned to his fate in that interview imo.

1 minute ago, Stas1 said:

I can only judge by seeing our players going half-hardheartedly through motions. Mind you, Frank is lucky that we currently do not have real strong head rebellious individuals in the dressing room like Diego Costa, otherwise the dressing room would be in full-on mutiny by now.

Quite possible. Certainly Willian and Luiz are good examples from the past too, and Arsenal probably benefited from having neither involved today.

43 minutes ago, Stas1 said:

That's what I meant. It is not a wake up call, it is an incompetence alarm. Sadly, Frank turns our players into self-doubting low on confidence unmotivated habitual bottlers. For everyone's sake Frank should do a decent thing and just walk away.

Was you saying this when Lampard had us on a 13 game unbeaten run that included having us qualify top of our Champions League group? 

Things were looking fantastic about a month ago, now we're on a run of bad results and performances. 

I have faith Lampard can get the team playing well again like we were earlier this season but I think he needs to make some decisions about formation, tactics and team selection that perhaps he's wanted to avoid. 

Getting Werner and Havertz into the team and playing well and with confidence should be top of the priority list. 

Reserving judgment for now. But what I will say is all this talk about how eg “Frank needs to go all out for Declan Rice next window”... or “we just need to buy  another winger”.... is an implicit admission that Lampard is not good enough . I mean i could argue that if only the board splashed out on Mbappe and Messi, it would have a positive impact on our results. You see the problem? If you don’t think that Lampard can do better than today’s and last few performances with our current squad, ie without Declan Rice, then you must also think he’s not good enough to be Chelsea manager. It’s very simple. I’m still hoping he CAN do better with the current squad and that this is a traditional mid-season blip. Ie as I said at the start - reserving judgment for now.

Edited December 26, 20205 yr by Dean

19 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

48 hours later he'll be taking these knackered players to Villa, what happens if we lose that one?

Im sorry, Apart from Mount and Silva due to his age, i really dont see how any of the players can use fatigue as an excuse.

When they train they are finished by 12, the rest of the day is their own, my heart bleeds for them.

They've been pathetic for the past six games, i would'nt pay them a penny for any of their performances,

It will always be the same for us supporters. The players and manager are our hero's when things go well and we win but they become absolute villains when they lose and play sh*t like today. Lamps is an all-time legend but that means little when you have just bean soundly beaten by a London rival who were themselves on a poor run of form and should have been there for the taking.

Not good enough, mentally weak, wrong tactics, wrong players, right players in wrong positions...........I don't care what it is but it's Frank's job to get it right. The clock it ticking if he he doesn't get it right then ultimately he will pay the price. He won't be getting much sleep tonight, wondering how it all went so wrong today and that players he thought he could count on now, realising that he can't. When you're a multi-millionaire like Frank, you really must wonder if you need all this?

 

Words from the Gaffer wise or covering up the cracks , I'm not sure.

Personally think a bad day at the office and Arsenal had the run of luck yet we it makes Villa most important and due to just 2 days rest the pressure is on. 

I should add we seem to struggle against teams that press us well, Everton, Saints, Liverpool.

Arsenal 3-1 Chelsea - Frank Lampard - Post-Match Press Conference - YouTube

23 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Was you saying this when Lampard had us on a 13 game unbeaten run that included having us qualify top of our Champions League group? 

Things were looking fantastic about a month ago, now we're on a run of bad results and performances. 

I have faith Lampard can get the team playing well again like we were earlier this season but I think he needs to make some decisions about formation, tactics and team selection that perhaps he's wanted to avoid. 

Getting Werner and Havertz into the team and playing well and with confidence should be top of the priority list. 

Last season's 4th was the case of best among the worst. This season even traditionally low and mid-table teams have improved their game, so we are in a tough competition. In CL we had a relatively easy ride with Krasnodar and Rennes, and Sevilla rolling over in their last game against us. Atletico Madrid will eat us and sh*t us out with ease.

When Frank was appointed as our manager, I was happy with the understanding that we will be content and very patient with hovering around middle of the table, but at this cost promoting and developing our youth into the first team, and giving Frank a couple of years of learning the trade. If our expectations are still below Europa League, then fine.  However, instead of our own youth promotion on-mass, we went out and bought external talents and now expect to compete for EPL crown and CL place.  As evidently our objectives and expectations have shifted upwards, I do not believe that Frank is ready to fulfill those expectations. Apart from tactical mistakes (some people question if we even have any tactics) and general game management shortcomings, I think Frank struggles to motivate the players and fails to get the best out of them on a consistent basis.  Miscommunications on the pitch, very rudimentary link-up play, misplaced simplest passes, evident lack of anticipation, poor physical form, players easily switch off - these are all telltale signs that group and individual training methods are not up to scratch.

Some people here believe that a magic player will come and miraculously resolve all problems. Yesterday it was Havertz, today it is Ziyech, tomorrow will be Gilmour, however it is not the players, but the whole system that falters - and it is down to the manager to sort it. 

I hope that Frank will turn everything around and fast, but sadly I know he wont.

2 hours ago, mm24 said:

His biggest problem is that we dont have any attacking play except for give the ball to fullbacks, let them cross it in the middle and see what happens. Also, our midfield isnt capable of controlling games. You just dont have that physical presence. Mount, Kante, Kovacic/Jorginho are all lightweight. 

And I have to agree on that Tammy thing. Today was obviously time for Timo to play the striker with Christian on the left and Callum on the right. 

 

 

100% agree with the midfield.  I have being saying this for a long time. Kante is a fantastic athlete, but not one of them has any genuine physical presence. It is why Lampard is so desperate for Declan Rice. I don't know if Rice is the answer but it's blindingly obvious we need more strength, pace and physicality in our midfield.

28 minutes ago, just said:

100% agree with the midfield.  I have being saying this for a long time. Kante is a fantastic athlete, but not one of them has any genuine physical presence. It is why Lampard is so desperate for Declan Rice. I don't know if Rice is the answer but it's blindingly obvious we need more strength, pace and physicality in our midfield.

Rice would bring a degree of physicality to the midfield but he doesn't strike me as pacey. I agree that our midfield is way too slow. If you compare us with many other teams we seem incapable of a fast counter, unless we get the ball to Pulisic or CHO with space to run into. Jorginho and Kovacic are both suited to a slower game that is more based on possession. Probably why City wanted Jorginho. Havertz looks that way too.

41 minutes ago, just said:

100% agree with the midfield.  I have being saying this for a long time. Kante is a fantastic athlete, but not one of them has any genuine physical presence. It is why Lampard is so desperate for Declan Rice. I don't know if Rice is the answer but it's blindingly obvious we need more strength, pace and physicality in our midfield.

Rice is not the answer

2 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Rice would bring a degree of physicality to the midfield but he doesn't strike me as pacey. I agree that our midfield is way too slow. If you compare us with many other teams we seem incapable of a fast counter, unless we get the ball to Pulisic or CHO with space to run into. Jorginho and Kovacic are both suited to a slower game that is more based on possession. Probably why City wanted Jorginho. Havertz looks that way too.

Arsenal and Everton didn't have a better midfield in these recent games that we lost. But the ball moved faster from player to player compared to how we play.

Arsenal just played without thinking much and suddenly we don't see our fancy midfield doing well or Kante managing to protect our backline when the ball is already going inside our box...

Rice might be the player that Lampard wants but in the end of the day he's not a player that creates goals or chances, something that we have lacked in the last few games. If Mount didn't manage to have all those assists from corner kicks his overall input would be much more worrying and he's also a player that Lampard wants to build the team around... At some point someone needs to step up, it looks like we have more problems after spending more money for this season and that is worrying. If Lampard spends more in order to buy Rice he will need to get us somewhere pretty soon after that.

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Arsenal and Everton didn't have a better midfield in these recent games that we lost. But the ball moved faster from player to player compared to how we play.

Arsenal just played without thinking much and suddenly we don't see our fancy midfield doing well or Kante managing to protect our backline when the ball is already going inside our box...

Rice might be the player that Lampard wants but in the end of the day he's not a player that creates goals or chances, something that we have lacked in the last few games. If Mount didn't manage to have all those assists from corner kicks his overall input would be much more worrying and he's also a player that Lampard wants to build the team around... At some point someone needs to step up, it looks like we have more problems after spending more money for this season and that is worrying. If Lampard spends more in order to buy Rice he will need to get us somewhere pretty soon after that.

I agree. Despite conceding 3 today I was more concerned about our inability to  create decent chances against a woeful Arsenal team.

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

I agree. Despite conceding 3 today I was more concerned about our inability to  create decent chances against a woeful Arsenal team.

Back to the drawing board, not having a single shot on target for around 60-70 minutes against this Arsenal team is just not acceptable. Even if they had Aubameyang we should have done better, if certain things don't work Lampard shouldn't force it. Bench Werner or play him as the CF, never play Mount-Kante-Kovacic trio in the midfield again, don't put Pulisic on the right wing... Can't be worse than this so it's only up from this point on!

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Back to the drawing board, not having a single shot on target for around 60-70 minutes against this Arsenal team is just not acceptable. Even if they had Aubameyang we should have done better, if certain things don't work Lampard shouldn't force it. Bench Werner or play him as the CF, never play Mount-Kante-Kovacic trio in the midfield again, don't put Pulisic on the right wing... Can't be worse than this so it's only up from this point on!

am pretty sure our first shot on target was Tammys goal

West ham glossed over how poor offensively we have been against sides not defending well. 

Arsenal with Gabriel out takes the cake though. Is like last season again. Start off looking so good scoring goals for fun, now left to fend on scraps.

I think it would be absolutely ridiculous if we sack him next few weeks! It was only a few weeks ago we were on a 17 game unbeaten streak.

Things aren’t looking great right now but stay calm, we’ll get better and Frank is here to stay.

I am all for people questioning Lampards decision making such as Werner being played on the wing despite him being woefully out of form, sticking with 4-3-3 even though we've been struggling lately with that formation however asking him to resign or get sacked is just ludicrous. 

Lampard has a lot of credit in the bank for me not just as a player but also as a manager due to how he sheparded us through the transfer ban by integrating the youth and getting us top 4. In addition we are the one club who should know that all Managers regardless of how experienced or elite they may be that they have areas of limitations which are especially exposed during a rough patch, are we going to chop and change every time the going gets tough. 

The one thing Lampard has shown is that he is flexible tactically as he has changed his preferred formation on a few occasions depending on how players have been performing, the team he played today was arguably the strongest he could've played with the exception of Centre forward, RW & RCM. RW will be assigned to Ziyech once he is back and CF in my opinion is a toss up between Tammy and Giroud, Werner needs to work himself into some form to be in with a shout but the interesting position is the RCM because it will determine whether we stick with 4-3-3 or shift to 4-2-3-1 and move Kai behind the striker. 

Tactics aside I think Lampards biggest challenge is to help the players mentally and if they are going through a tough phase to help them through it. I think the best thing for Lampard could be to maybe bring in a more experienced number 2, it feels like both Lampard and Morris are learning on the job and it would help Lampard to maybe bring in someone a little more experienced to assist through these tough patches.