1 hour ago, dkw said:

We're 7 points behind the league leaders, what's your point. 

The way we are playing, that 7 point gap will most likely grow and will double in the next 10 games. My point is, we are really underachieving and thats mostly down to Lampard. The games we have dropped points against teams is borderline unacceptable when you consider the circumstances e.g. more rest and their star players missing. 

18 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

The way we are playing, that 7 point gap will most likely grow and will double in the next 10 games. My point is, we are really underachieving and thats mostly down to Lampard. The games we have dropped points against teams is borderline unacceptable when you consider the circumstances e.g. more rest and their star players missing. 

What is more likely, that we improve or that we keep playing bad?

We don't really know what will happen till it happens, we might win the next 5 games in a row, most against good teams.

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What is more likely, that we improve or that we keep playing bad?

We don't really know what will happen till it happens, we might win the next 5 games in a row, most against good teams.

It's more likely that we keep playing bad and I'm basing this on what I've seen since the bad run started against Everton. We only have one major injury in Ziyech, so we can't even usean injury crisis as an excuse. We just lack ideas and variation. This squad is better than our performances are showing. Yes we will win games but it's hard to envisage that we will build a 3-4 game winning streak as Utd have just done.

3 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

It's more likely that we keep playing bad and I'm basing this on what I've seen since the bad run started against Everton. We only have one major injury in Ziyech, so we can't even usean injury crisis as an excuse. We just lack ideas and variation. This squad is better than our performances are showing. Yes we will win games but it's hard to envisage that we will build a 3-4 game winning streak as Utd have just done.

Wait a second. If it's impossible to go on a 3-4 game winning streak why did we have a 17 (?) game unbeaten run earlier this season? 

2 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

Wait a second. If it's impossible to go on a 3-4 game winning streak why did we have a 17 (?) game unbeaten run earlier this season? 

I never said it was impossible. I said its unlikely based on the way we are playing which is consistently bad and devoid of ideas.

3 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

In the last few seasons at Chelsea and Juve a number of players have come out and said some astonishing things about Sarri, Pjanic saying he didn't trust his players, Fabregas and Kova questioned his training methods and allegedly Willian and Hazard were bored playing under Sarri. 

I don't want to underplay and discredit Sarri for what he did for us but for some reason it just didn't seem like the right fit especially once Hazard left. Under Sarri we did play very predictable football which was possession oriented and against high pressing teams who managed to negate the Jorginho avenue we became somewhat toothless. 

Having said all that Sarri always made it quite clear he will be back in Italy the moment he got the opportunity and once the Juve job became available he was never going to stay. 

When I hear that players feel bored in training I am actually happy. That gave me some hope that Sarri knew what he was doing 

Training is the job. It's not meant to be fun and laughter and purely bonding and mini games. It's meant to be learning over and over again where to be, how to pass, move, shoot etc. It's meant to be dull. 

If our players come out and say how much they are enjoying training and how fun it is now, I wouldn't be surprised, because they clearly aren't learning much. They clearly aren't being drilled in how to break teams down and maybe a few months of repetitive and boring drills is what is needed. 

10 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Sarri is a better manager than lampard, so not sure what you mean by that. Every club Sarri manages gets worse after he leaves. Of course lampard isn't as good as sarri, he's got significantly less experience at this level.

Lampard is the most junior and inexperienced manager we've ever had. He's going to need time to learn his style and either we are patient and allow him that time or we get a more experienced manager in. The hope is he improves and becomes that manager. 

Too many people think football managers are born great. That you either have it or you don't. To be a great top level manager you need to learn the game and that takes time. 

Underrated views 👏. I know I bang on about it but I feel if I don’t push back against the groupthink, nobody will.... except you of course.

The narrative that has been dreamt up about Sarri on here is mostly wrong. For one thing, the “sarriball” that is so derided wasn’t really his football at all. We only saw glimpses of the football he intended towards the end of the season and it looked pretty good, but the fans have opted to forget that. The rest of the time, including the mid-season shxtshow (not unlike our mid season shxtshow last year under Lampard, or our current slump, btw) it was a work in progress as he was adapting .
 

Yet he still managed third in the league and the Europa league trophy . That’s no mean feat for a first season in a foreign league/country whose language you can hardly speak. And indeed his whole journey to the top of football management is a pretty remarkable story, a fairytale almost. He came from completely outside the football establishment and worked his way right up to the top. Do people not realise how insanely difficult that is? It’s a really long way. Perversely his story is football’s equivalent to the working class kid who, with no leg-ups or connections, works his way to the top of a global investment bank or tech giant. He had to overcome countless hurdles and challenges to get there, having to add value every step of the way to get to the next level. He is the antithesis of Lampard in this respect, who as a high-ranking member of the footballing aristocracy was only ever a few steps away from a coveted senior role. You don’t have to like Sarri, but i think you do have to respect what he’s achieved.

And no I’m not calling for Sarri to come back or anything (I accept that  it didn’t gel). Nor am I calling for Lampard’s head (far from it). But as you say, as of today Sarri is a better manager than Lampard. The hope (which I’m still holding onto) is that at some point in the not too distant future this will no longer be the case. But let’s not kid ourselves. Lampard has a lot to learn and will have his work cut out justifying the appointment.

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

When I hear that players feel bored in training I am actually happy. That gave me some hope that Sarri knew what he was doing 

Training is the job. It's not meant to be fun and laughter and purely bonding and mini games. It's meant to be learning over and over again where to be, how to pass, move, shoot etc. It's meant to be dull. 

If our players come out and say how much they are enjoying training and how fun it is now, I wouldn't be surprised, because they clearly aren't learning much. They clearly aren't being drilled in how to break teams down and maybe a few months of repetitive and boring drills is what is needed. 

I agree but I think there needs to be an element of balance which keeps the players honest but at the same time on your side and I don't think Sarri hit that balance at Chelsea or at Juve. 

Fabregas talked about how Sarri changed the training timings which wouldn't allow him and other players with families sufficient time with their kids due to the conflicts with school timings. Pjanic talked about lack of trust on players which made them question their own abilities etc. I actually wanted Sarri to Continue with us but I always got the feeling during his tenure that he wasn't completely committed and was almost using Chelsea as a stop gap on his way to the Juve job. 

8 hours ago, bisright1 said:

He hasn't overachieved for me at all and didn't last year, I think our team was top 4 worthy and that's where we ended up. I think Sarri would have got us top 3 last year and we'd have won the FA cup. Lampard is a noticable downgrade on sarri for me

I think he definitely overachieved last year. Nobody was putting us in the top 4 last season after the transfer ban and losing Hazard, only the optimistic posters on the forum were saying that. Outside of this forum, nobody, all rivals had us pegged for a 3rd Mourinho season with Frank gone early. 

He did do a good job last season, I won't change my mind on that. But now things have changed, we've got new players in and should be doing better than we are. 

11 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

By the same token if we had backed Conte after the first great season like we have Lampard what could we have achieved and where could we be now.

Perhaps we wouldn't have had the hissy fits and sh!t management in that second year and perhaps we could have started a new level of dominance of football instead of those dirty scousers

I'm sorry but i'm really getting sick of the excuses made for Conte, unless we spend in January we spent more that season than we will this.

If they really were low rate 2nd/3rd choices he didn't want then he could have said save the money (for when someone he did want was available) and dipped into the best academy in the world. All the youth players that Lampard used were available for Conte if he didn't like the options in the market.

No manager in our history has had to deal with as much turmoil in their first 2 seasons.

Inheriting the worst defence in our modern history, losing the third best player in the World at the time, then the little matter of the transfer ban, which amplified the affects of the bad defence and losing Eden. That was just the first season, the next season we have the pandemic, players getting covid, no fans, all our wingers were injured at a key time of the season and our good run came to an end.

For those unique reasons he should get his third season, just because it hasn't happened before under RA, it doesn't mean it won't happen. 

If Frank were to only get two seasons, he can count himself very unlucky, he got the two most negatively unique seasons in our history.

42 minutes ago, coco said:

No manager in our history has had to deal with as much turmoil in their first 2 seasons.

Inheriting the worst defence in our modern history, losing the third best player in the World at the time, then the little matter of the transfer ban, which amplified the affects of the bad defence and losing Eden. That was just the first season, the next season we have the pandemic, players getting covid, no fans, all our wingers were injured at a key time of the season and our good run came to an end.

For those unique reasons he should get his third season, just because it hasn't happened before under RA, it doesn't mean it won't happen. 

If Frank were to only get two seasons, he can count himself very unlucky, he got the two most negatively unique seasons in our history.

I agree with your arguments yet if we miss out on top 4 don't think our business owner and his chums will hesitate in bringing in a new boss.

Just now, Strider6003 said:

I agree with your arguments yet if we miss out on top 4 don't think our business owner and his chums will hesitate in bringing in a new boss.

I'm not so sure, i think/hope the club has turned the corner on short-temism.

7 minutes ago, coco said:

I'm not so sure, i think/hope the club has turned the corner on short-temism.

To actually believe in "long-termism" it's very important to have a manager that you know has the ability to go to the very top. For example it was easy for people at Liverpool to trust Klopp considering what he did while he was in Germany. At the moment you just dont know what are you gonna get from Frank even though I love the guy. 

Chelsea made top four last season, because other teams were EFFing up, it wasn’t based on the fact Chelsea was playing well or anything. Is this Chelsea team worse than the team above them? This team isn’t even playing as a team. I want to see more shots on target or something. I want to see more work ethic . I want to see this squad playing like a team with a plan. Our squad isn’t bad just lost, and I hope Lampard will be able to guide them, because we can’t just depend on the fact that he was a legend for the club as qualification, because right now we need a manager. When you spend so much money people expect result that’s just how it is. He needs to prove he can handle the job that’s all I am going to say.

1 minute ago, Simon35 said:

Chelsea made top four last season, because other teams were EFFing up, it wasn’t based on the fact Chelsea was playing well or anything.  

The most moronic of takes on league positions, well done.

I have seen the same argument made for every other big teams “ they are in their league positions because everyone turns over or make it easy for them”

So why can’t that argument be made for Chelsea also. 

22 minutes ago, Simon35 said:

Chelsea made top four last season, because other teams were EFFing up, it wasn’t based on the fact Chelsea was playing well or anything. 

Absolute rubbish, Lampard came into the job lost our game changer with no chance to replace him and got a finish everyone thought was beyond us.

I'm far from happy with how things have been going of late but we could lose every game now until May and last season would still be an good achievement.

34 minutes ago, mm24 said:

To actually believe in "long-termism" it's very important to have a manager that you know has the ability to go to the very top. For example it was easy for people at Liverpool to trust Klopp considering what he did while he was in Germany. At the moment you just dont know what are you gonna get from Frank even though I love the guy. 

Barcelona did the same thing with Guardiola and the rest is history.

That squad at the time obviously made Guardiola’s time a lot easier, like the point Coco made - It’s not an easy time to be manager of Chelsea now so he should be given time.

When we lost our best player and had a transfer ban last season we had no expectations and could play carefree, that simply isn't the case anymore. There is a lot of pressure now and I think our young squad and our inexperienced manager (I think it's absurd to compare him to Klopp or Guardiola) are starting to feel that, especially in the extraordinary situation with the pandemic. While we are only 7 points behind Liverpool and 1st, we are also only 7 points ahead of Crystal Palace and 15th in the league. We lost the ability to consistently win close games, which will cost us and we are not looking good against our direct rivals and teams we should win against easily on paper.

These are just observations and everyone will make his own conclusions. But I don't think I'm being too negative when I say the way we are playing I fear for 6th place, something I thought unthinkable at the start of this season since we invested heavily. And that's on Frank to be honest, nobody else.

28 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Barcelona did the same thing with Guardiola and the rest is history.

That squad at the time obviously made Guardiola’s time a lot easier, like the point Coco made - It’s not an easy time to be manager of Chelsea now so he should be given time.

He has the time, he's been given funds im just not sure how will he survive if next season is similar to this one in terms of consistency. 

If us as fans can't back Lampard during a tough phase such as the one we are going through now I doubt we will ever back any Manager and forever will be a 1-2 year project for every Manager appointed. 

15 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I never said it was impossible. I said its unlikely based on the way we are playing which is consistently bad and devoid of ideas.

You just assume that we will keep playing bad. You don't really know if that will be the case, chances are any team will have a bad period, some ups and downs, we have a good squad and it's easier for us to turn things around than to keep playing bad.

2 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

If us as fans can't back Lampard during a tough phase such as the one we are going through now I doubt we will ever back any Manager and forever will be a 1-2 year project for every Manager appointed. 

This is already true. Many fans didn't want to back Conte when we finished 5th and after we won the FA cup.

No wonder Sarri left as soon as someone else called...

1 hour ago, mm24 said:

To actually believe in "long-termism" it's very important to have a manager that you know has the ability to go to the very top. 

 

Or you take a punt on a player who has been at the very top, knows the club inside out, and at the very least would be popular amongst the fans.

The very fact that Lampard was given the job suggests the club might have had enough of the revolving managers door and replaced it with a portcullis.