Is contact a foul then? If so we should be giving 3 penalties a game. 

It is now. I don't agree with it but that's where the game is now. VAR is the worst thing that's happened to football since 1882 when Spurs were formed

Just now, loz said:

3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Is contact a foul then? If so we should be giving 3 penalties a game. 

It is now. I don't agree with it but that's where the game is now. VAR is the worst thing that's happened to football since 1882 when Spurs were formed

It's not though, if so then CHO was a penalty. I believe you said the CHO incident wasn't a penalty, if so then how is this one? There was still contact, he was pushed in the back and Tarkowski still touched him he was just pulling out. So was Jorginho, he was pulling out of the tackle and the player didn't go down until the ball was out of the area, meaning the contact had nothing to do with him going down, he also wasn't getting that ball. 

I don't think CHO's was a penalty, I think he dived and Tarkowski pulled out of the challenge, that's fair. But neither was this one, not in a million years, I don't know how people can even think it is, I would be laughing about it even being a foul anywhere on the pitch to be honest. 

It's not though, if so then CHO was a penalty. I believe you said the CHO incident wasn't a penalty, if so then how is this one? There was still contact, he was pushed in the back and Tarkowski still touched him he was just pulling out. So was Jorginho, he was pulling out of the tackle and the player didn't go down until the ball was out of the area, meaning the contact had nothing to do with him going down, he also wasn't getting that ball. 

I don't think CHO's was a penalty, I think he dived and Tarkowski pulled out of the challenge, that's fair. But neither was this one, not in a million years, I don't know how people can even think it is, I would be laughing about it even being a foul anywhere on the pitch to be honest. 

I never said CHO wasn't a penalty. I don't think it was, I also don't think the one yesterday was... If I made the rules. But with the rules and VAR now both were penalties. Its sh*te. VAR is sh*te but fans brought it on themselves by bring pussies when decisions go against them.

Foster was good in goal for Watford and kept them in it, before that utter farce of a penalty they got.

Some of the pens over the last couple of weeks some given some overturned or looked at and not given by VAR is too inconsistent which is why people are Angry and frustrated. 
 

My gripe is Dave’s Penalty not given at Norwich where it didn’t meet the criteria! A big kick in the shin whilst on the run with the ball.

1 hour ago, loz said:

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

It's not though, if so then CHO was a penalty. I believe you said the CHO incident wasn't a penalty, if so then how is this one? There was still contact, he was pushed in the back and Tarkowski still touched him he was just pulling out. So was Jorginho, he was pulling out of the tackle and the player didn't go down until the ball was out of the area, meaning the contact had nothing to do with him going down, he also wasn't getting that ball. 

I don't think CHO's was a penalty, I think he dived and Tarkowski pulled out of the challenge, that's fair. But neither was this one, not in a million years, I don't know how people can even think it is, I would be laughing about it even being a foul anywhere on the pitch to be honest. 

I never said CHO wasn't a penalty. I don't think it was, I also don't think the one yesterday was... If I made the rules. But with the rules and VAR now both were penalties. Its sh*te. VAR is sh*te but fans brought it on themselves by bring pussies when decisions go against them.

The rules though haven't changed, just the interpretation. You'll be telling us next Eddie Mac's tackle on Bremner was a penalty. 

VAR is sh*t but it wasn't the fans that brought it on, this is just a progression from when football was invented in 1992. The truth is though  that officials are bypassing the criteria of use as set out by the Premier League.  At what point did clear and obvious take 2 mins plus to decide? The officials manning the screens are either incompetent or incapable of following clear guidelines. They should have to justify their decisions after the match or some will question their impartiality or motives. 

The rules though haven't changed, just the interpretation. You'll be telling us next Eddie Mac's tackle on Bremner was a penalty. 
VAR is sh*t but it wasn't the fans that brought it on, this is just a progression from when football was invented in 1992. The truth is though  that officials are bypassing the criteria of use as set out by the Premier League.  At what point did clear and obvious take 2 mins plus to decide? The officials manning the screens are either incompetent or incapable of following clear guidelines. They should have to justify their decisions after the match or some will question their impartiality or motives. 

Fans are massively responsible for bringing it on. They cry like pussies when it goes against them but massively silent when they benefit. I find it borderline pathetic when anyone over the age of 12 genuinely thinks their team is picked on.

VAR would never be required if grown adults didn't behave like brats. And that is relevant to fans, players and managers, for every team. Yes I get annoyed when decisions go against us when replays prove its a mistake but its pathetic to deny that, over time, it doesn't balance out. VAR is here because people can't accept that.

I don't think decisions do even themselves out! The non goal to Liverpool in the CL and the scandal at the Bridge against Barca. Massive decisions which cost us bigtime and have never had the same go for us.

Just watched the game. Standing applause for Ben foster. You have to give it to him, he was top class and almost snatched them a point only he would have deserved. Save from Pulisic header was something else.

Without him this is a 4 or more goal win for us. Our football was crisp, hard working, score 2 lovely goals, and should have had at least 3 more. Scoreline flatter them big time.

Jorginho, Abraham, Kova and Zouma excellent.

On the pen well, it is Mike Dean, he hates us. I would not be so bothered by it if the Watford player had not clearly dived after keeping his footing and we were not a week removed from CHO being labelled a cheat.

Push in the back = contact

Trip to leg = contact

Neither a pen for me but how is one a dive and another a pen and BOTH clear and obvious errors?

Look at the videos posted by Scott Harris. Is not VAR being a joke, it is the people using it not being consistent with it. They are doing what they feel like and not applying it fairly.

I don't think decisions do even themselves out! The non goal to Liverpool in the CL and the scandal at the Bridge against Barca. Massive decisions which cost us bigtime and have never had the same go for us.

It's a common argument to quickly cling to a couple of high profile mistakes in big games to justify a flawed argument. As if top rated refs can somehow guarantee less mistakes in a final than a lesser game.

Overbo had a mare. No doubt about it. Even he eventually admitted it.

Azpilicueta was clearly offside when he equalised against Cardiff a couple of years ago.

Kepa had no right staying on the park against Spurs for his foul on Kane in the league cup semi. Howler of a decision.

What about Mata's goal against Spurs in the Cup that never crossed the line?

I could go on and on. There are stacks of them but largely people only remember the ones that went against their team and tend to focus on the high profile ones. That's human nature. Just because they didn't happen in a CL final doesn't make them less of a bad decision.

Its always happened. Christ we were once awarded a goal by Hudson where he actually missed!

I'm actually impressed how you remembered all that Loz.

16 hours ago, BadBlue said:

Agree he had a poor game and he looks vulnerable and slow. Deep down inside i am still hoping he can regain his form and be again the mighty defender he once was... But as it stands it looks like he is taking the Ivanovic/Cahill path and we might need to have a solid replacement for next seaaon. 

Sadly, I agree as well. One of my favorites. He does seem to have to really push it to keep up at times. It seems like just yesterday he bumped out Ashley Cole in first season of Jose part II.

18 hours ago, loz said:

18 hours ago, Nibs said:

Of course you are correct Loz but when you look at the CHO incident last game and then the one yesterday and see BOTH calls go against us it is easy for paranoia to set in!!
The way VAR is being implemented HAS to be reviewed and soon as I can see it causing a riot at this rate - it's a complete farce and is ruining the game as we know it.

I'd get rid of it entirely and just go back to accepting mistakes happen and manning up. It's f**king terrible

But those rugby bastards manage to use it without the errors and the delays, so it can be done properly.

But those rugby bastards manage to use it without the errors and the delays, so it can be done properly.

Still sh*te though. When you score you want to be able to celebrare immediately and without fear you will look a tit in 3 minutes time after a ref has stood around with his hand to his ear to find out 'if there is any reason why he can't award a goal'

9 hours ago, loz said:

It's a common argument to quickly cling to a couple of high profile mistakes in big games to justify a flawed argument. As if top rated refs can somehow guarantee less mistakes in a final than a lesser game.

Overbo had a mare. No doubt about it. Even he eventually admitted it.

Azpilicueta was clearly offside when he equalised against Cardiff a couple of years ago.

Kepa had no right staying on the park against Spurs for his foul on Kane in the league cup semi. Howler of a decision.

What about Mata's goal against Spurs in the Cup that never crossed the line?

I could go on and on. There are stacks of them but largely people only remember the ones that went against their team and tend to focus on the high profile ones. That's human nature. Just because they didn't happen in a CL final doesn't make them less of a bad decision.

Its always happened. Christ we were once awarded a goal by Hudson where he actually missed!

Yes, of course we and every team have decisions that go for us. My real point was, we haven't been  paid back once, let alone twice  in games of that magnitude. 

3 minutes ago, loz said:

8 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

But those rugby bastards manage to use it without the errors and the delays, so it can be done properly.

Still sh*te though. When you score you want to be able to celebrare immediately and without fear you will look a tit in 3 minutes time after a ref has stood around with his hand to his ear to find out 'if there is any reason why he can't award a goal'

True - where we  f**k up is in the "clear and obvious" bit.   In the rugby, mostly they seem to get it right and only use it when it's too close to call straight away.  We seem to be reviewing every goal to see if we can go back far enough to find a reason to disallow it, rather than only if there is an obvious infringement.  Linespersons  are frightened to raise their flag now in case they get laughed at or overturned.

In my view, both the Watford twat and Callum made the most of minimal contact, probably neither one was a dive and both could have been given as penalties or just waved away.  In the old days, the ref would have made the decision immediately, one way or the other, and we would have had merry japes in here discussing one way or the other for days.  Would have given us a chance to shout abuse from the stands (or not) as well.  But even then, these decisions were made based on an individual ref's opinion, and most of them can at best be described as incompetent, so there never has been any consistency, which I think is what VAR was brought in to achieve.

But then I also think that the miking up of referees in rugby is a great thing that we should bring in.  Let the whole stadium hear some of the lame  excuses coming from both refs and players.

 

True - where we  f**k up is in the "clear and obvious" bit.   In the rugby, mostly they seem to get it right and only use it when it's too close to call straight away.  We seem to be reviewing every goal to see if we can go back far enough to find a reason to disallow it, rather than only if there is an obvious infringement.  Linespersons  are frightened to raise their flag now in case they get laughed at or overturned.
In my view, both the Watford twat and Callum made the most of minimal contact, probably neither one was a dive and both could have been given as penalties or just waved away.  In the old days, the ref would have made the decision immediately, one way or the other, and we would have had merry japes in here discussing one way or the other for days.  Would have given us a chance to shout abuse from the stands (or not) as well.  But even then, these decisions were made based on an individual ref's opinion, and most of them can at best be described as incompetent, so there never has been any consistency, which I think is what VAR was brought in to achieve.
But then I also think that the miking up of referees in rugby is a great thing that we should bring in.  Let the whole stadium hear some of the lame  excuses coming from both refs and players.
 

Like when Tony Adams called a ref a f**king cheat and he responded 'I might be f**king useless but I'm not a f**king cheat'

Now that's good family entertainment

5 minutes ago, loz said:

Like when Tony Adams called a ref a f**king cheat and he responded 'I might be f**king useless but I'm not a f**king cheat'

Now that's good family entertainment

Exactly that.  And we could have an audio montage released for Christmas of Rooney;s interactions with officialdom over the years and a grime remix of JT and his words of leadership and wisdom.

They need to get rid of VAR until they can get some refs who know how to actually implement it, the lack of consistency is appalling. Over the last few days there has been a lot of discussion whether that incident was a pen or not, the decision on field was No Pen & the replays were inconclusive therefore you stick with the on field decision. Same thing with CHO last week on field decision was Pen, the replays again were inconclusive as there was a nudge in the back so therefore you stay with the on field decision. I am not saying this with my blue tinted glasses as if the shoe was on the other foot and the pen was given by the on field ref this weekend based upon the replays I would not have any gripe with the ref if it wasnt overturned. 

As a further example the handball by Alli yesterday was an absolute no brainer, how that pen was not given I will never know. The refs cant have it both ways in reference to on field calls and I dont think there is a bias against Chelsea however I do believe there are some teams who are more likely to get decisions in there favor as opposed to others. Its this double standard that people seem to have an issue with.

Edited November 4, 20196 yr by Imran_CFC

4 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

They need to get rid of VAR until they can get some refs who know how to actually implement it, the lack of consistency is appalling. Over the last few days there has been a lot of discussion whether that incident was a pen or not, regardless the decision on field was No Pen & the replays were inconclusive therefore you stick with the on field decision. Same thing with CHO last week on field decision was Pen, the replays again were inconclusive as there was a nudge in the back so therefore you stay with the on field decision. I am not saying this with my blue tinted glasses as if the shoe was on the other foot and the pen was given by the on field ref this weekend based upon the replays I would not have any gripe with the ref if it wasnt overturned. 

As a further example the handball by Alli yesterday was an absolute no brainer, how that pen was not given I will never know. The refs cant have it both ways in reference to on field calls and I dont think there is a bias against Chelsea however I do believe there are some teams who are more likely to get decisions in there favor as opposed to others. Its this double standard that people seem to have an issue with.

I caught MOTD+ last night and Keown was saying the refs that made the cock-ups on the pitch Saturday were then on VAR duty Sunday and having bad days also on VAR. Making a bad situation worse.

23 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I caught MOTD+ last night and Keown was saying the refs that made the cock-ups on the pitch Saturday were then on VAR duty Sunday and having bad days also on VAR. Making a bad situation worse.

There is no accountability, its similar to a player making a terrible tackle yet being allowed to continue.

The protection of the officials needs to be stopped, they shouldnt be drawn and hung publicly but the FA needs to be more active in demoting and promoting refs based upon performance, I understand it happens on the odd occasion but nowhere near enough. I am sick and tired of the same old & fat refs turning up season after season, get more youngsters into officiating so that you have 30 odd year old's actually keeping up with the pace of the game. 

2 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

There is no accountability, its similar to a player making a terrible tackle yet being allowed to continue.

The protection of the officials needs to be stopped, they shouldnt be drawn and hung publicly but the FA needs to be more active in demoting and promoting refs based upon performance, I understand it happens on the odd occasion but nowhere near enough. I am sick and tired of the same old & fat refs turning up season after season, get more youngsters into officiating so that you have 30 odd year old's actually keeping up with the pace of the game. 

VAR certainly seems unaccountable and I remember a certain European ref (Anders Frisk) allegedly retiring following receiving death threat from CFC fans after one of his controversial matches.

Do we have enough refs or do people generally not want the grief that goes with it?

 

1 minute ago, Strider6003 said:

 

Do we have enough refs or do people generally not want the grief that goes with it?

 

Isnt that the job of the FA to make the role appealling by offering coaching and development alongside a competitive salary so people would want to go into that profession

27 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Isnt that the job of the FA to make the role appealling by offering coaching and development alongside a competitive salary so people would want to go into that profession

Yes the FA............ I was impressed to hear Lampard say that at a managers meeting they were all discussing this.

If they come out in unison something will probably happen.  

Isnt that the job of the FA to make the role appealling by offering coaching and development alongside a competitive salary so people would want to go into that profession

I doubt it has much to do with the salary level at the top end. More to do with the years you need to spend in the arse end of football getting paid buttons for being called a speccy c**t by a geezer called Brian with a 42 inch gut and a part time job in Farmfoods