His debut was pretty dismal, but he's no Les Fridge.

1 hour ago, Ready Player One said:

No point defending him. 
He was really, really bad. 
But, he put in a decent defensive shift and it was his first game in the league having only signed like a week ago. 
I have zero worries about him. He is an elite talent. This was just a bad game. It happens. Even to elite talents. 

I'm not too worried about him.  He had only been with the team a few days.  You can't expect him to suddenly turn into a creative talent when he's probably still learning everyone's names.  

The amount of time training with the team probably partially explains why Timo had a much better game than Kai.  

Pulisic took a little while to adjust to the EPL too and he had a full off-season to train with the team.

If the players can get and stay fit, the Chelsea attack could be a pretty awesome one to watch by the second half of the season.  

 

Edited September 15, 20205 yr by Valpo

1 hour ago, SFL82 said:

If it’s free moving football he wants you need a tempo setting cm now We have seen Jorginho do that, completely dictate games but frank doesn’t seem to like him, Havertz should be able to play that role from further forward and hopefully kova can keep feeding him from defence to get it going, but without control in the middle that philosophy doesn’t work  

You could definitely see yesterday that we didn't control the middle of the pitch. It'll be interesting to see what the midfield looks like against Liverpool, I wouldn't be surprised to see 4-2-3-1 to give us more bodies in the middle and to put 2 in front of the back three; maybe give Kante the freedom to roam a little more with either Kova or Jorginho next to him.

One game, a few days training, new league, new teammates - no concerns at all.  There is a confidence/belief that I see in him - when he settles (and that might take a while, and Lampard to not screw around with his position), he'll grab the game and pull the strings comfortably.

Play him in a no.8 role in a 4-3-3 or the no.10 in a 4-2-3-1.  No messing around.  Best players in their best positions.

I think people are jumping into conclusions about his position. He produced amazing numbers from that right side for Leverkusen. What I saw in this game was people avoided giving him the ball as he made some errors in his passes here and there. This is normal in football. Players tend to play the ball to the guy who looks the most comfortable. Havertz was far from being comfortable. Which is very understandable. He needs time no matter the position. I know he will play on that right side many times more and be the best player on the pitch. 

On 15/09/2020 at 08:15, ducavis said:

Did we play a 4-2-2-2?

Ive seen a few sites saying we played 4222, ive actually watched the game back last night, and it was definitely more of a narrow 4231, with Havertz, and Mount given licence to move inside. 

The only time RLC was pushed on was to either press, and we press in 442, and have done since sarri, or when kepa had the ball, RLC pushed up to compete aerially with the centre backs, and give us a target. The majority of the game RLC and then Barkley generally played in and around Brightons Dm, Boussouma. 

There was leaked team news before kickoff, where people said it was a 4222, so im guessing that it where its come from, but all the pundits and commentators, said it was 4231, and Neville even asked Lampard about it post match on Mnf. 

Whatever the formation, it didnt really work too well, RLC pushing forward on goal kicks meant we were a man light trying to play out, so Kepa either went long, or we play 2 or 3 short passes before going long. 

Bringing it back to Havertz, i was critical after the game, the scuffed pass, and skewed shot that went for a throw in, were fresh in my mind, but with a second watch, he was actually pretty decent, as we were as a team aswell to be honest. There were times he looked a little timid, but he worked he hard, and won the ball back when he lost it, and there were a few occasions, he found space but the pass didnt come. 

When these players start to learn each others games, i think we will be a devastating side. 

Edited September 16, 20205 yr by big blue

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Good passes in the final third, good runs and cutting in the box. Mount, James and Alonso didn't put in a good cross but his passes were well timed and his runs as well but nobody played him, I think Werner decided to shoot in 2-3 occasions.

Please provide clips of these. I remember one ball over the top from Mount that Kai gave up on. One pass the wrong side for Werner to run on too. Then nothing else of note.

10 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Please provide clips of these. I remember one ball over the top from Mount that Kai gave up on. One pass the wrong side for Werner to run on too. Then nothing else of note.

I watched the game. That's enough for me, he passed into space a few times for James, a few times for Werner, I remember at least once for Mount that went on and lost the ball instead of putting a cross in... If you missed the game you should search for clips not me.

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I watched the game. That's enough for me, he passed into space a few times for James, a few times for Werner, I remember at least once for Mount that went on and lost the ball instead of putting a cross in... If you missed the game you should search for clips not me.

Clearly don't know what you're looking at if you think a 5 yard pass for James to overlap onto is enough to warrant a good game. 

Well, people got crazy about Mount's season based on one free kick so yeah... why the hell not? 

21 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Clearly don't know what you're looking at if you think a 5 yard pass for James to overlap onto is enough to warrant a good game. 

I never argued that his debut was decent because of 1 pass so try again, this doesn't work for you I can't see an argument here.

15 minutes ago, Droopy said:

Well, people got crazy about Mount's season based on one free kick so yeah... why the hell not? 

I never said he was decent because of 1 pass, he had a decent debut because he passed well in the final third overall and he made good runs cutting inside but was never played. Add to this that he was played out of position as well.

I mean his passes in the final third were well timed, our best player Kovacic can't put out a well timed pass like Kai did in his first game where he was played way too wide...

31 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I never said he was decent because of 1 pass, he had a decent debut because he passed well in the final third overall and he made good runs cutting inside but was never played. Add to this that he was played out of position as well.

I mean his passes in the final third were well timed, our best player Kovacic can't put out a well timed pass like Kai did in his first game where he was played way too wide...

Havertz played almost 1/3 of his games last season at RW, yet you think he was played out of position? Shows how little you know. 

It wasn't an unnatural position for him at all. 

With all our wingers fit I doubt we will see him play out wide regularly however having seen him operate on the RW against Brighton his biggest strength is running in behind centrally when Werner and RLC dropped deeper. He made that run on a few occassions and unfortunately either it wasnt spotted or the pass was overhit.

I think he will mostly fulfil the No.10 role or play the right side of a midfield 3, hopefully he can get further acclimatized to his new environment over the next few weeks and we get a better idea of what Lampard has planned for him. 

 

Think he learned throughout that game that he can't be as casual and slow on the ball as you can in other leagues when playing in the PL. Several times he got caught on the ball and looked surprised that he was closed down so quickly.

23 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Havertz played almost 1/3 of his games last season at RW, yet you think he was played out of position? Shows how little you know. 

It wasn't an unnatural position for him at all. 

Sure keep telling that to yourself, as if playing CAM and rotating to the right wing is  just the same as playing as a right side midfielder. I know more than you, exposed again?

 

Kai did play as a RW for us last season, but when I watched the Chelsea game I felt like he was positioned very wide in comparison to his games with us. He´s not a natural winger, he obviously lacks the pace and acceleration for it. He´s a tall guy after all. He likes to cut inside on his left foot from that position, you won´t see him making runs down the touchline and putting in crosses. He occupies basically the same spaces that Messi does in Barcelona. Opening up the wing for the full-back and trying to receive the ball between the lines and turn. And I am obviously not comparing him to Messis quality, he just uses similar positions.

 

Besides the fact that he looked a bit nervous and sloppy (the sloppiness isn´t out of the ordinary with him sometimes), I think the game didn´t really suit him as Brighton had more posession than you and he barely had players around him offensively to link up with. I just hope for you guys that Lampard finds the right place for him to shine.

1 minute ago, UnexpectedGuest said:

Kai did play as a RW for us last season, but when I watched the Chelsea game I felt like he was positioned very wide in comparison to his games with us. He´s not a natural winger, he obviously lacks the pace and acceleration for it. He´s a tall guy after all. He likes to cut inside on his left foot from that position, you won´t see him making runs down the touchline and putting in crosses. He occupies basically the same spaces that Messi does in Barcelona. Opening up the wing for the full-back and trying to receive the ball between the lines and turn. And I am obviously not comparing him to Messis quality, he just uses similar positions.

 

Besides the fact that he looked a bit nervous and sloppy (the sloppiness isn´t out of the ordinary with him sometimes), I think the game didn´t really suit him as Brighton had more posession than you and he barely had players around him offensively to link up with. I just hope for you guys that Lampard finds the right place for him to shine.

There is difference from playing RW and RM, Kai simply isn't a wide midfielder and that was what he was playing on his debut, a more deeper role which simply is him being played out of position.

Just because he played a handful of games as a striker and as an inside foward on the right wing as a 20-21 year old, doesn't mean that Lampard played him right in his first game, no argument at all there, he is versatile but this wasn't his role in Leverkusen;

In front of him RLC was trying to occupy the same position where Kai would naturally go to, this also prevented him from making more passes in the final third.

21 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Sure keep telling that to yourself, as if playing CAM and rotating to the right wing is  just the same as playing as a right side midfielder. I know more than you, exposed again?

 

How can i explain this in baby words to you. The position he played against Brighton, he played many times there for Bayer.

You're literally the laughing stock of this entire forum.

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

How can i explain this in baby words to you. The position he played against Brighton, he played many times there for Bayer.

You're literally the laughing stock of this entire forum.

No he didn't. See above. Thank you mr. Laughing stock. First you tried to make my view about him all about 1 pass only, now you're insulting me, I think I won this arleady.

15 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

There is difference from playing RW and RM, Kai simply isn't a wide midfielder and that was what he was playing on his debut, a more deeper role which simply is him being played out of position.

Just because he played a handful of games as a striker and as an inside foward on the right wing as a 20-21 year old, doesn't mean that Lampard played him right in his first game, no argument at all there, he is versatile but this wasn't his role in Leverkusen;

In front of him RLC was trying to occupy the same position where Kai would naturally go to, this also prevented him from making more passes in the final third.

 

Yes, that´s what I was trying to say basically.

2 hours ago, Droopy said:

Well, people got crazy about Mount's season based on one free kick so yeah... why the hell not? 

You are genuinely a complete bellend.

Havertz was linked with Real pre-covid and the Madrid fans most likely would have ripped him to pieces for that performance, £70m and not scoring a hat-rick on his debut!  Can we not turn into that lot and give the lad a chance please.  

1 minute ago, DarkMata said:

Havertz was linked with Real pre-covid and the Madrid fans most likely would have ripped him to pieces for that performance, £70m and not scoring a hat-rick on his debut!  Can we not turn into that lot and give the lad a chance please.  

Too late, a lot of our "fans" are now exactly like that, every single player is either amazing or utter sh*te, depending on the last match they played.  

22 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

Havertz was linked with Real pre-covid and the Madrid fans most likely would have ripped him to pieces for that performance, £70m and not scoring a hat-rick on his debut!  Can we not turn into that lot and give the lad a chance please.  

No ones ripping him to pieces or not going to give him a chance, people just have an issue with people saying he had a good debut. If CHO was on having that performance no one would have an issue saying it was pretty sh*t.