Kai Havertz

[jack_super_class]

On 21/02/2021 at 03:22, Slojo said:

He's been injured, Pulisic also picked up a knock again. Sadly we have little luck with injuries this season, same for many teams. 

It's only teams like United that aren't suffering, it probably explains why they're so high in the table. 

When it comes to Pulisic i don't think its back luck, I think he will always have injury problems and be injury prone.

[haviet1]

14 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

When I watch this one thing becomes painfully obvious, this guy is not a CM nor should he play there. I get and appreciate what Frank was trying to do and it worked for a while but a box to box is not utilising his specialities.

He should be classfied as an attacker in the squad and operate closer to the striker. We want him taking shots in the box, playing the final pass and utilising his height in the box. Its very hard for him to do all of that as a box to box in this league

 

I still believe Chelsea's best attacking front 3 are still Pulisic, Werner, and Havertz.

If only they can get into form and stay off the injury list.

 

 

[Term_X]

2 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

When it comes to Pulisic i don't think its back luck, I think he will always have injury problems and be injury prone.

I think as a club we can handle that, especially with our disjointed recruitment team overloading in attacking areas. Robben was the same but he’s still gone on to have a great career regardless, at least we know Pulisic on his day has shown he can be a superstar, had a better debut season than Hazard ffs. As with Havertz, always thought had it not been for Covid and our finances we would never have gone for it, especially with Mount emergence, only did it to take advantage of Madrid & Bayerns predicament with no thought to how it would effect Lamps who was on his knees begging for Rice. 

[LongtimerLurker]

1 hour ago, Term_X said:

I think as a club we can handle that, especially with our disjointed recruitment team overloading in attacking areas. Robben was the same but he’s still gone on to have a great career regardless, at least we know Pulisic on his day has shown he can be a superstar, had a better debut season than Hazard ffs. As with Havertz, always thought had it not been for Covid and our finances we would never have gone for it, especially with Mount emergence, only did it to take advantage of Madrid & Bayerns predicament with no thought to how it would effect Lamps who was on his knees begging for Rice. 

I mean due to his injury nature its hard to predict just how many goals and assists Puli would have had. Finishing 10G and 10A in his debut season was great,  but Hazard was 13G and 24A in his debut season.

Not to mention he single handedly kept us in the Europa league with a strike from out of this world when it looked like we would get eliminated.

From a business point of view I fear for Christian I hope he overcomes his injuries because he's my favourite Chelsea player atm.

If he doesn't the Board will make a decision in a couple of seasons most likely to move him on. This isn't guaranteed but, we need reliable players and we can't pay someone who can't do their job. Regardless of how much we like them and their talent this after all is a cut throat industry based on results.

[strider6004]

9 hours ago, Malcolm9 said:

The problem with us for a while is that we don't put the ball into dangerous areas enough, our possession play is so easy to read.

Players like James or Alonso shouldn't really be playing the ball back, we need them creating triangles with the midfield and attack, we need more of this to be able to create more dangerous situations to unsettle teams.

I think we lack creativity in Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic, which then in turn affects the team as a whole. Look at the way Fernandes has made a difference at United, we need players with that mentality and ability.

I agree on the WBs passing back and see James does this more than Alonso.  Alonso seems better which must mean his movement is superior off the ball. I can't say for sure as the camera follows the ball. The backward pass is the safe one as normally once they are marked they turn on to their weaker foot.

Normally someone is inside like Kova or Jorginho though it might be a panic thing or laziness yet it mostly seems to go back to the CB.  It seems to me when we have Kova and Jorgy in midfield the outlet here is better.

Attacking wise, watching other teams at the weekend from the Left I noticed both Lookman and Rashford took on their man on a one to one and buried the shot at the near post to score. This is something CHO should be aiming for when played as an attacker, don't get me so should Werner too. 

When we currently work the ball down one wing we have an attacker and Mount and in theory the other wide back. We know Alonso has it in his locker to score in this situation do we have someone on the Right side that can do this, James had a good opportunity against the Saints and failed to deliver. Perhaps a training issue or perhaps normally it would be CHO. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LongtimerLurker]

I was just willing him to get just a shot in during that brief cameo so we could see how fit/confident he's feeling. A few people on here including myself wanted to see him in false 9 and Tommy gave it us last night. Very interesting to see where we go from here.

Mount amd Werner have been near undroppable for Tommy. The strikers have been a bit more rotational, Giroud clearly is a big game player for us and should see game time as should Tammy. But, if Kai gets a start in false 9 it should be interesting to see how he performs in comparison to the games where he starts as a 10. 

[ForeverCarefree]

So, he's back then? 

Pulisic and Ziyech are already finding minutes on the pitch hard to come by under Tuchel... Wonder how Havertz will fare? 

United game potentially an indication of Tuchel's pecking order? 

[LongtimerLurker]

He is but all three of those players whilst can play in the 10 position aren't necessarily competing for the same role. For me Pulisic is also competing with Alonso/CHO/James and Ben to a lesser extent for a wb starting birth.

Kai is also competing with Giroud/Tammy for the striker position. If Tommy really does see Werner more as an inside fwd and less of a striker at least for now, it means we only have 2 strikers hence the importance of Kai being able to play that false 9 role which I expect to see more after yesterday.

Hakim is the only one who can really only play one position in this current system and that's a left or right ten in the 3421 or the singular 10 in the 3412/352. Wouldn't trust him at wb and I don't think Tommy does either not unless you play a midfield 3 and even then I'm not convinced.

[LongtimerLurker]

He's got a combined 10 goals and assists in 10 games as a CF. I think TT might see this as his next position and is working on it with him in training. He could learn a thing or to from Oli and become a good combination of a False 9 and target man

[Gol15]

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

He's got a combined 10 goals and assists in 10 games as a CF. I think TT might see this as his next position and is working on it with him in training. He could learn a thing or to from Oli and become a good combination of a False 9 and target man

A false 9 or somehow in a AM attacking duo with Mount with Werner in front of them. I think Mount and Kai complement each other, sad that we didn't see both in their best positions yet.

[coco]

 

On 24/02/2021 at 14:54, ForeverCarefree said:

So, he's back then? 

Pulisic and Ziyech are already finding minutes on the pitch hard to come by under Tuchel... Wonder how Havertz will fare? 

United game potentially an indication of Tuchel's pecking order? 

Tuchel doesn't fancy Kai, or Tammy, not so keen on Werner either by the look of it.

He may not realise it yet, but Touchel is going to need them if he's going to succeed here, were talking 35 goals from those 3 players if they play every league game. If he can't get that from them he should'nt be in the job. I would love to know what Roman thought before the utd game when he saw all that money he spent on the bench? Like visiting a grand kid and seeing the toys you bought in the bottom of the toy box, i should imagine.

[strider6004]

On 22/02/2021 at 13:33, jack_super_class said:

When it comes to Pulisic i don't think its back luck, I think he will always have injury problems and be injury prone.

I think the same and we have RLC and Barkley 

[PraetorianGuard]

58 minutes ago, coco said:

 

Tuchel doesn't fancy Kai, or Tammy, not so keen on Werner either by the look of it.

He may not realise it yet, but Touchel is going to need them if he's going to succeed here, were talking 35 goals from those 3 players if they play every league game. If he can't get that from them he should'nt be in the job. I would love to know what Roman thought before the utd game when he saw all that money he spent on the bench? Like visiting a grand kid and seeing the toys you bought in the bottom of the toy box, i should imagine.

Tuchel speaks highly of Kai and Werner has got plenty of playing time.

Although Kai hasn't gotten a whole lot of playing time, so...

[Dragos]

11 minutes ago, PraetorianGuard said:

Tuchel speaks highly of Kai and Werner has got plenty of playing time.

    Tuchel speaks highly of all the players. It's his style of managing the dressing room and help them build confidence even when they are not playing.

[LongtimerLurker]

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/club-news/tuchel-says-kai-havertz-can-play-as-central-forward-for-chelsea/

[strider6004]

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/club-news/tuchel-says-kai-havertz-can-play-as-central-forward-for-chelsea/

Ahem, I watched him once play there in Germany and was very pedestrian. I sense a mind game by Tommy T to see if our forwards react.

Havertz can play there yet is hardly inspiring and if he means it I think this is bad news for Tammy.

[Gol15]

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/club-news/tuchel-says-kai-havertz-can-play-as-central-forward-for-chelsea/

"This is very interesting because just a few days ago, Tuchel described Havertz’s best position as “between a nine and a 10” or a false nine.

The Germany international is certainly familiar with playing up front, and even discovered his best goalscoring form as a centre forward for Leverkusen.

To put it into perspective, Havertz scored 12 goals in Bundesliga last season, and half of those came when he played as a No.9 (six goals in five games according to Transfermarkt)."

 

It seems like it's just too difficult to accommodate all of the players, it looks like we have an unbalanced squad and our tactics with an extra man as a CB doesn't help our attack to get something done either...

Mount and Havertz naturally play around/behind a striker, Tuchel acknowledging that but still deciding to drop Tammy suggests that he's not sure what to do at the moment.

It's going to be a very interesting summer, Tuchel and the board need to make some important decisions regarding who to invest in and where the trust for the future should be. I personally think that Tammy has done a great job for us, even when he wasn't getting enough balls he managed to score goals for us - that quality is evident and it's a must have so we should keep the faith in him.

Giroud is leaving most likely so we could simply keep Werner, Tammy and potentially Havertz as the option for a false 9. At this point even if we get to sign Haaland we don't know how the rest of the team would look - e.g. I thought that Ziyech walks in our starting lineup due to his passing with no questions asked but he has been a bit underwhelming to say the least...

If we get Mount and Havertz to become a stable partnership in the midfield somehow, the striker problem might solve itself. I would build the team around them somehow...

 

 

[reparto corse]

17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

It seems like it's just too difficult to accommodate all of the players, it looks like we have an unbalanced squad

I agree there is not the right balance in our attack. What I find weird is that creating clear cut chances and scoring goals hasn't been an issue at all at the beginning of the season. We were mostly good going forward last season as well. Not sure why we have been so poor going forward recently. It already started during Lampard's time so it can't all be blamed on Tuchel. 

[LongtimerLurker]

54 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

I agree there is not the right balance in our attack. What I find weird is that creating clear cut chances and scoring goals hasn't been an issue at all at the beginning of the season. We were mostly good going forward last season as well. Not sure why we have been so poor going forward recently. It already started during Lampard's time so it can't all be blamed on Tuchel. 

It can't be fully blamed on Tuchel but with the pragmatic approach playing one less natural attacker does have its drawbacks. He says its not the structure or system its the players and to an extent that is true. However, naturally having more attack minded players would result in more chances or at least in theory. I expect to see kai to get more mins going forward but where is anyone's guess. So far 3421 and 3421 have been the systems of choice.

Interestingly enough though one of the broadcasters for the athletico game had us down as a 433 instead of 3421. It had me thinking that we're not that far off it when Mount,  Alonso, Werner and CHO all play. Alonso playing as Lwb can often be viewed as an attacking lb and CHo on the other wing plays so high that he can often resemble a Rw. 

Add in Mount dropping deep to get possesion and move the ball fwd and often times the team shape will look like

                            Mendy

Azpi      Andreas         Rudiger     Alonso

 

            Jorgehh                Kova

                          Mount

CHO                  Giroud            Werner

 

This ofc is not always true but at certain instances the team does play in this shape with Alonso the majority of the time much further fwd almost level with CHO but aside from when this is the case it is almost like we do play a 433

[jack_super_class]

Id like to see him used as a centre forward, Sounds like Tuchel thinks he can play there.

[LongtimerLurker]

Yeah on paper this looks pretty good

 

      Azpil      Silva/Andreas        Toni 

CHO         Jorgehh    Kova         Alonso

           Mount                    Werner

                             Kai

 

[ForeverCarefree]

14 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Id like to see him used as a centre forward, Sounds like Tuchel thinks he can play there.

Tuchel isn't shy of playing false 9s, I think all of Pulisic, Ziyech, CHO and Mount have done it so far. 

So could be Havertz gets a chance there... It isn't like Tammy or Giroud are making themselves a must pick right now. So maybe Havertz gets some game time there and he's going to be used as a way of getting Werner more involved too. 

Given we're struggling for goals and clear cut chances, it's got to be worth a try. 

[Nibs]

Would like to see him started ahead of Ziyech for the Everton game. He couldn't offer any less surely?

If Havertz can become anything as good as Mount, then we'll be laughing.

[LongtimerLurker]

46 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Would like to see him started ahead of Ziyech for the Everton game. He couldn't offer any less surely?

If Havertz can become anything as good as Mount, then we'll be laughing.

I agree to an extent, I really want to see him too but I've come to the conclusion that between Kai, Ziyech and Pulisic the main reason I think we haven't seen too much of them is the technical skills required for the role. We need a player who won't lose possesion more than anything else, alongside contributing to the attack.

The best managers all talk about minimising mistakes to 0 per game. Losing possession as we all know can lead to goal scoring opportunities. As it stands all three of these players are guilty of losing the ball fairly often. This is in part attributed to adapting to a new league, the intensity/press blah blah blah.

Sadly most games I've watched Kai in for us, he has been guilty of losing the ball and this is what I think Tuchel has been working on with him. Adapting to the physicality and becoming more press resistant.

Once this has been achieved I'm guessing we see him get more game time & starts etc. Ofc this is all just a theory but aside from the occasional bad touch Werner seems to be a bit better at keeping possession than all of those previously mentioned and is one of the main reasons aside from his goal threat that contributes to his regular involvement.

[Slojo]

8 hours ago, Nibs said:

Would like to see him started ahead of Ziyech for the Everton game. He couldn't offer any less surely?

If Havertz can become anything as good as Mount, then we'll be laughing.

Ziyech is more creative than Havertz and has a better final ball, I wouldn't write him off just yet, or Havertz. But if I had to go with a player to start, I would go Ziyech at the moment.