12 hours ago, Gol15 said:

With that in mind we started the season with Havertz being first in a RM role, then in a false 9 role and then finally as the AM a couple of games before he got covid where he played his best games, he was also used as a CM playing more deeper and as a RW too.

Still it's pretty obvious who did Lampard play the most during his 1.5 season regardless of how he did at any given position, Kai played around 10-15 minutes against Man City and made a great assist, only to sit out on the bench the very next game.

I remembered Lamp wanted to ease him into epl so he started as rw only in his first game , he was awful. Then he basically played as a 10,his best position. He played better but he can't hold the ball, which is needed since Werner can't hold the ball either. I believe Mount was bench player at that moment. False 9 against pool was basically Lamp want Havertz in the lineup and false 9 is the only position that kinda work and it didn't work. 

Lamp has tried to basically get the best out of werner and Havertz. And use Mount as filler to play functional or tactical role. The problem is Mount has played well in any role he played. You can't drop player who is playing well otherwise you will lose yotur credibility as manager. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Slojo said:

I think this club needs to stop making signings over 50 million lmao

If you look at our top 5 record fee signings it's pretty scary, even top 10, most of them flopped. As a club we have done some great business, but sadly we have signed some absolute sh*te over the years. Strikers especially. 

Our top 10 transfer list has been incredibly stupid. It is difficult to say any of them is a wc player 

 

10 hours ago, Slojo said:

Fair enough, you do come across very negative at times though, and overly critical of all our players. 

I've had a lot of criticism with Kai this season, but I'm willing to give him the year and see how he is next, I'm trying to just ignore the transfer fee. 

That's because I comment more on the things I'm unimpressed with and ill call it how I see it. No point sugar coating or making excuses for players in my book.

Don't think I'm being harsh on Kai Havertz either. He's had plenty of game time when fit when Frank was manager (way more than anything KDB was given, such is the comparisons im seeing) and I've just seen nothing but an average player. Replace his performances with RLC and we are all saying that he won't make it at a high level Chelsea.

I mean Werner has had a poor season so far but you can see where he excells and the room for improvement. 

I would like nothing more than to be proved wrong.

Give us a shout if you see our record signing, he seems to have gone AWOL .... 

Edited February 20, 20215 yr by BordeauxBlue

13 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I remembered Lamp wanted to ease him into epl so he started as rw only in his first game , he was awful. Then he basically played as a 10,his best position. He played better but he can't hold the ball, which is needed since Werner can't hold the ball either. I believe Mount was bench player at that moment. False 9 against pool was basically Lamp want Havertz in the lineup and false 9 is the only position that kinda work and it didn't work. 

Lamp has tried to basically get the best out of werner and Havertz. And use Mount as filler to play functional or tactical role. The problem is Mount has played well in any role he played. You can't drop player who is playing well otherwise you will lose yotur credibility as manager. 

 

 

That's your take on it but the truth is that Mount could go missing for 5 games in a row and he would still be playing the 6th in a row regardless, like I said Kai made a great assist vs Man City but was still watching the next game vs Fulham from the bench. Lampard did a similar thing to CHO that managed to take his minutes and make some assists but he was still mostly watching the game as a sub.

I hope people see the pass which James Rodriguez played in behind for Richarlison, looks fairly simple but it's perfectly weighted and timed and doesn't push Richarlison too wide which allows him to beat Allison. The number of times we tend to over or under hit that pass is unreal, taking into account just today's game, Werner overhit one for Alonso, Kante overhit one for Mount? And Mount underhit one for Reece. 

If anyone in our squad has the finesse to perfectly weight a ball in behind in my view it's Kai, I think he has the mental calmness to pick that pass. He hasn't really shown that consistently for us but I've seen glimpses of that when it comes to his passing In tight areas, hopefully Against teams like Southampton we can shift to 4 at the back and bring in Kai to play in the number 10 role. 

Is he still injured or just not getting picked? The majority of our attacking players seems to be on the bench or not even making the bench these days, Pullisic\Ziyecn\Havertz. I'm sure Tuchel has a plan, but if results start to go south, questions will be asked about what's happening with those attacking players.

1 hour ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Is he still injured or just not getting picked? The majority of our attacking players seems to be on the bench or not even making the bench these days, Pullisic\Ziyecn\Havertz. I'm sure Tuchel has a plan, but if results start to go south, questions will be asked about what's happening with those attacking players.

He's been injured, Pulisic also picked up a knock again. Sadly we have little luck with injuries this season, same for many teams. 

It's only teams like United that aren't suffering, it probably explains why they're so high in the table. 

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

He's been injured, Pulisic also picked up a knock again. Sadly we have little luck with injuries this season, same for many teams. 

It's only teams like United that aren't suffering, it probably explains why they're so high in the table. 

If we are 100% healthy, Tuchel will have massive problem making everyone happy. 3 spots for 8 players 

16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

truth is that Mount could go missing for 5 games in a row and he would still be playing the 6th in a row regardless, 

Hard to imagine Mount going missing for a whole game, let alone 5 on the trot.

2 hours ago, coco said:

Hard to imagine Mount going missing for a whole game, let alone 5 on the trot.

He's still a young player, there had been many games where he didn't do anything but he always works hard off the ball to make it up for it.

That still doesn't address the problem of our lack of creating chances and scoring goals though.

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He's still a young player, there had been many games where he didn't do anything but he always works hard off the ball to make it up for it.

That still doesn't address the problem of our lack of creating chances and scoring goals though.

TT needs to get away from the 3 at the back comfort blanket.

With regards to Havertz, I think this "injury" is a smoke screen.

I think TT knows what a good player he is and has seen how he's struggled so far in England. Rather than keep playing him and draining his confidence i think he's told him to work on building his strength up and work on the aspects of his game that have led him to struggle in the Premiership.

I was reading an article where TT was speaking about him and he highlighted what naturel ability the lad has but that he cant rely on that alone to survive at his tender age in the English game. He needs to work on his weaknesses.

Since that interview he has'nt played a game, so fingers crossed we see a different Havertz when he returns.

I'm still convinced this is our true long term Hazard replacement and potentially our future franchise player. When we brought Hazard there was always that chance in the back of our minds that he could win the ballon d'or maybe with us, I think that was the same thought process with buying Havertz.

Pulisic is amazing and even though he hasn't set the world alight this season he is still my favourite current Chelsea  player. However, Havertz is a different breed. Pulisic never came close to the stats of Kai in the Bundesliga. If he can translate that form into the prem at the age of 21 he will be a truly frightening player.

Why are so many so quick to conclude that Havertz and our other signings are all flops? There needs to be a lot more leeway for new league, lack of experience, covid etc. They need at least two seasons. I fear we’ve been conditioned for instant gratification. That’s the attitude that cost us Salah and de Bruyne. 

I think Havertz is a good player, and will ultimately have a good career in football. Whether that happens at Chelsea remains to be seen. He doesn't seem to fit in with our style of play, and I don't think our defensive options are good enough to allow for a luxury item in attacking midfield who never has to track back. So we either have to change and build a team that suits his style, or hope that he adapts to our style risking that he loses some of his effectiveness. You have to look at the decision to bring him in by the board. Do they actually do any research to determine whether a player is a good fit for our side?

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

I think Havertz is a good player, and will ultimately have a good career in football. Whether that happens at Chelsea remains to be seen. He doesn't seem to fit in with our style of play, and I don't think our defensive options are good enough to allow for a luxury item in attacking midfield who never has to track back. So we either have to change and build a team that suits his style, or hope that he adapts to our style risking that he loses some of his effectiveness. You have to look at the decision to bring him in by the board. Do they actually do any research to determine whether a player is a good fit for our side?

I don’t think so and that is why we are so behind as a club, you either back the managers choices (want Conte wanted, what Lampard wanted) or you have a genius director of football who is the sculptor of the team. If it is to be believed that Marina rules roost and Cech is the pin up boy for the blame then we’ll surely see more transfers like this. Had Lampard got his way, this money would have been used for Rice which not only would have strengthened us where we really needed it but also took West Ham out the CL places. 

1 hour ago, Term_X said:

I don’t think so and that is why we are so behind as a club, you either back the managers choices (want Conte wanted, what Lampard wanted) or you have a genius director of football who is the sculptor of the team. If it is to be believed that Marina rules roost and Cech is the pin up boy for the blame then we’ll surely see more transfers like this. Had Lampard got his way, this money would have been used for Rice which not only would have strengthened us where we really needed it but also took West Ham out the CL places. 

Exactly. That doesn't mean that Rice is a better player than Havertz but he was a player we needed. Frank knew that and wanted him because he also knew he could fit into our system.

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by forbzy
typo

4 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I'm still convinced this is our true long term Hazard replacement and potentially our future franchise player. When we brought Hazard there was always that chance in the back of our minds that he could win the ballon d'or maybe with us, I think that was the same thought process with buying Havertz.

Pulisic is amazing and even though he hasn't set the world alight this season he is still my favourite current Chelsea  player. However, Havertz is a different breed. Pulisic never came close to the stats of Kai in the Bundesliga. If he can translate that form into the prem at the age of 21 he will be a truly frightening player.

I hope so but its all conjecture and hype. Hazard in one game vs Wigan done more than anything Havertz has shown so far. It's not even close.

4 hours ago, Dean said:

Why are so many so quick to conclude that Havertz and our other signings are all flops? There needs to be a lot more leeway for new league, lack of experience, covid etc. They need at least two seasons. I fear we’ve been conditioned for instant gratification. That’s the attitude that cost us Salah and de Bruyne. 

Not sure about Salah but it was Jose and only Jose that cost us KDB. He hardly got a sniff in the first team.

2 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Not sure about Salah but it was Jose and only Jose that cost us KDB. He hardly got a sniff in the first team.

No dispute from me there. I’m sure Jose was responsible ... lest he get upstaged or just really bad judgment? I wasn’t suggesting the fans decide these things. Just that there’s a short-termism embedded in the culture and the jury is still out on Havertz who may yet shine.

When I watch this one thing becomes painfully obvious, this guy is not a CM nor should he play there. I get and appreciate what Frank was trying to do and it worked for a while but a box to box is not utilising his specialities.

He should be classfied as an attacker in the squad and operate closer to the striker. We want him taking shots in the box, playing the final pass and utilising his height in the box. Its very hard for him to do all of that as a box to box in this league

Did he play in counter attacking sides?

I ask as he seems to be running onto the ball unmarked in a lot of those?

6 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

Did he play in counter attacking sides?

I ask as he seems to be running onto the ball unmarked in a lot of those?

The problem with us for a while is that we don't put the ball into dangerous areas enough, our possession play is so easy to read.

Players like James or Alonso shouldn't really be playing the ball back, we need them creating triangles with the midfield and attack, we need more of this to be able to create more dangerous situations to unsettle teams.

I think we lack creativity in Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic, which then in turn affects the team as a whole. Look at the way Fernandes has made a difference at United, we need players with that mentality and ability.

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by Malcolm9

3 hours ago, Malcolm9 said:

The problem with us for a while is that we don't put the ball into dangerous areas enough, our possession play is so easy to read.

Players like James or Alonso shouldn't really be playing the ball back, we need them creating triangles with the midfield and attack, we need more of this to be able to create more dangerous situations to unsettle teams.

I think we lack creativity in Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic, which then in turn affects the team as a whole. Look at the way Fernandes has made a difference at United, we need players with that mentality and ability.

Fernandes is an exceptional player (though has a nasty fouling side), Mount is that equivalent in our team. 

Fernandes also puts a shift in, not just waiting for the ball but pro-actively looking for it.

Utd have players that can beat their opposite number on the wings that then make defenders commit and open up spaces. This may been why CHO was pulled, perhaps he was asked to make the defenders commit before crossing.

James rarely does this, seen it under Lampard once or twice yet mainly cuts inside for a sideways pass.

Last season Pulisic dribbling from the edge of the box opened up the opposite defense of course this time around he is crocked so we are struggling.