8 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I doubt many on this forum would disagree that Havertz has been a massive disappointment so far at Chelsea. Of course there are some factors to acknowledge including adapting to a new country/league. Not to mention getting a serious case of Covid.  But so far he hasn't justified a regular starting position in our team let alone the massive transfer fee. That being said I fully expect him to get a lot of minutes under Tuchel as I suspect he has been tasked with getting the expensive signing to deliver. If Tuchel is successful at Chelsea I suspect Havertz will be too. On the other hand if Tuchel cannot get him playing well then we've got an outfield Kepa on our hands and that is on the board, specifically the scouting team and Marina.

If that was so he would have been in hospital more likely a mild case yet he needed to self isolate for a period,

Under Tuchel it will be interesting, with the stats like 16 recoveries yesterday they will notice things so in theory they can't hide for ever if he is constantly under performing.

People mention his runs into space yet he needs someone on the ball to spot that, Jorginho and Billy are not Fabregas their passing tends to be along the pitch surface so he needs to think about when and where he runs for me. You would expect TT to get this sorted quickly.

 

He is gash...... I've watched loads of youtubes of him in Germany and he looks good, but blimey he is light weight in the EPL.  He is young and I am prepared to give him time to bed into the premiership but at the moment he is dreadful. 

Loan him out I would. - How about swap him for RLC with Fulham ?

- oh and the same goes for Werner, I love his attitude and his passion however I watched a load of videos on him as well, he's great when there is not a defender in sight in the German league, its slightly different in the EPL. 

Let's hope that Tuchel can adapt them both quick.   

10 minutes ago, andy said:

He is gash...... I've watched loads of youtubes of him in Germany and he looks good, but blimey he is light weight in the EPL.  He is young and I am prepared to give him time to bed into the premiership but at the moment he is dreadful. 

Loan him out I would. - How about swap him for RLC with Fulham ?

- oh and the same goes for Werner, I love his attitude and his passion however I watched a load of videos on him as well, he's great when there is not a defender in sight in the German league, its slightly different in the EPL. 

Let's hope that Tuchel can adapt them both quick.   

Yeah, let's not beat about the bush and let's not pretend that both Havertz AND Werner have been anything but a major disappointment. If they had shown anywhere close to decent and contributed so far this season, we would be higher up the table with more points and Lamps would still be in a job.

Okay, folk can argue that Lamps played them out of their natural position and it's a valid point but only goes so far. If you have a top quality player, sure he will do best in his favoured position, but if he's really any good, he will be able to show his quality wherever he plays in other areas of the pitch. Not the case with Havertz and Werner. Bar one or two moments earlier in the season, both have been embarrassingly bad. 

Lamps will be sitting at home now knowing he made errors but I bet he wishes he could turn back the clock and he wouldn't be signing either of those two. They can only improve and if TT does manage to get the very best out of them then fair play - he will deserve all the plaudits.

Thinking back to those Youtubes with Kai scoring lots of goals it strikes me if he is making runs someone needs to try and find him.

Looking at the squad I think only Ziyech or Azpi could find him.

Jorgy and Billy tend to make passes along the turf and these would need to go over a line of opposition players.

James puts in crosses though don't think he would do it as precisely enough or at the right pace. 

Not sure on Kova and don't think Kante can.  

Chilwell is probably the wrong side as I think he runs from right side to centrally.

Then we would need to see if Kai has the first touch to take a cross on with one touch and then go through the last opposition line to close down on the opposition keeper.

 

"Okay, folk can argue that Lamps played them out of their natural position and it's a valid point but only goes so far. If you have a top quality player, sure he will do best in his favoured position, but if he's really any good, he will be able to show his quality wherever he plays in other areas of the pitch. Not the case with Havertz and Werner. Bar one or two moments earlier in the season, both have been embarrassingly bad. "

Not only out of position, but out of style. And if this is true, why did so many bemoan Sarri's use of Kante, it took Kante half of a season to adjust to Sarri's style. What about when Sarri tried Eden as a false 9. he showed up maybe 1 game.

Our two best chances to win it were both Havertz involved, his pass to Chillwell and his header, both were quality. If you swapped the jersey's and said his name was Mount, most fans here would have been calling him MOtM.

I don't think he's had a fantastic game yet, but I think he looked better yesterday playing higher up the pitch (though he needs to run in behind more). His movement is good, and his weight of pass is good. Looks like he benefits from having a winger outside of him. 

I actually think the 3-4-3 looks a good formation against bus parkers, so long as one of the wingbacks is Pulisic or Odoi. 

On current form though, I wouldn't play both Havertz and Ziyech. I personally prefer Havertz. 

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by Hessleboink

7 hours ago, Hessleboink said:

I don't think he's had a fantastic game yet, but I think he looked better yesterday playing higher up the pitch (though he needs to run in behind more). His movement is good, and his weight of pass is good. Looks like he benefits from having a winger outside of him. 

I actually think the 3-4-3 looks a good formation against bus parkers, so long as one of the wingbacks is Pulisic or Odoi. 

On current form though, I wouldn't play both Havertz and Ziyech. I personally prefer Havertz. 

No one runs behind more. He is making those runs all the time. Seems like fans and team mates alike just don't see him. I guess it is because he is so small 😃. Joking aside I think when his team mates start to make those passes and things start happening they start looking for him. There were couple of times against Wolves where both Giroud and Havertz made the run. If anyone from midfield makes that pass there is a good chance we break in.

5 hours ago, evissy said:

No one runs behind more. He is making those runs all the time. Seems like fans and team mates alike just don't see him. I guess it is because he is so small 😃. Joking aside I think when his team mates start to make those passes and things start happening they start looking for him. There were couple of times against Wolves where both Giroud and Havertz made the run. If anyone from midfield makes that pass there is a good chance we break in.

Chilwell sees Havertz running and pointing where the ball should go ---> "easy mate we don't do this around here see I gotta include Rudiger in this a bit" 

16 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

Not only out of position, but out of style. And if this is true, why did so many bemoan Sarri's use of Kante, it took Kante half of a season to adjust to Sarri's style. What about when Sarri tried Eden as a false 9. he showed up maybe 1 game.

Our two best chances to win it were both Havertz involved, his pass to Chillwell and his header, both were quality. If you swapped the jersey's and said his name was Mount, most fans here would have been calling him MOtM.

Edited January 29, 20215 yr by Gol15

21 hours ago, Nibs said:

Yeah, let's not beat about the bush and let's not pretend that both Havertz AND Werner have been anything but a major disappointment. If they had shown anywhere close to decent and contributed so far this season, we would be higher up the table with more points and Lamps would still be in a job.

Okay, folk can argue that Lamps played them out of their natural position and it's a valid point but only goes so far. If you have a top quality player, sure he will do best in his favoured position, but if he's really any good, he will be able to show his quality wherever he plays in other areas of the pitch. Not the case with Havertz and Werner. Bar one or two moments earlier in the season, both have been embarrassingly bad. 

Lamps will be sitting at home now knowing he made errors but I bet he wishes he could turn back the clock and he wouldn't be signing either of those two. They can only improve and if TT does manage to get the very best out of them then fair play - he will deserve all the plaudits.

I still have faith in Werner, and he hasn't played centre forward much neither. At least Werner has shown glimpses of ability, the run to set up Abraham goal away at Newcastle, the finish away to Spurs in the Cup and those 2 well taken goals VS Southampton. Havertz on the other hand has shown absolutely nothing, he's been trash.

I don’t think I need to say anything. Absolute w**k signings. Pulisic the only decent one.

12 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

I still have faith in Werner, and he hasn't played centre forward much neither. At least Werner has shown glimpses of ability, the run to set up Abraham goal away at Newcastle, the finish away to Spurs in the Cup and those 2 well taken goals VS Southampton. Havertz on the other hand has shown absolutely nothing, he's been trash.

Yeah, hope you are right. Could well be that TT is the man to get the best out of both. Sure it will be high on his list of priorities.

34 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I don’t think I need to say anything. Absolute w**k signings. Pulisic the only decent one.

I was very pro give Lampard time, and I am the same for Havertz and Werner. I have seen enough to be encouraged. Both make intelligent runs that too often are not picked out, Havertz offers us a good aerial threat and Werner his pace.

Yes neither good enough this season. Both young, both coming to a new league in strange times. Neither hiding on the pitch imo. 

And regardless of the shadow he was compared to Liverpool. Torres scored THAT goal in Barca and won THAT corner in Munich. That alone made him an unqualified success imo.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

And regardless of the shadow he was compared to Liverpool. Torres scored THAT goal in Barca and won THAT corner in Munich. That alone made him an unqualified success imo.

If that's the case then why doesn't Bosingwa ever get called an unqualified success as he made an interception at Barca that stopped a 2 on 1 vs Cech?

On 28/01/2021 at 17:29, Strider6003 said:

If that was so he would have been in hospital more likely a mild case yet he needed to self isolate for a period,

Lampard himself confirmed Kai got a very bad dose of Covid.

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

If that's the case then why doesn't Bosingwa ever get called an unqualified success as he made an interception at Barca that stopped a 2 on 1 vs Cech?

Lampard himself confirmed Kai got a very bad dose of Covid.

Jose moved to CB after JT had a Brainfart and did a magnificent job. Scored some cracking goals too. 

Thought he was good signing personally so not sure what you are on about lol

40 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Jose moved to CB after JT had a Brainfart and did a magnificent job. Scored some cracking goals too. 

Thought he was good signing personally so not sure what you are on about lol

Thought Bosingwa was pretty underwhelming, not helped by the fact he missed nearly the full season in his second year with a bad injury, which was also the title win under Carlo.

Had his moments, but never really lived up to his billing as that attacking right back, and he wasnt cheap at double the price we paid for Ivanovic and Azpi. 

How long do we given him before we officially start worrying about him?

 

3 minutes ago, JM7 said:

How long do we given him before we officially start worrying about him?

 

End of the season for me. A lot of the players have been poor this season, let's see how they work under a new manager (this is no dig at Lampard who, like the rest of us, I love).

Bosingwa always shone when he was out of position (otherwise he was pretty bad). Clearly the solution is to start Havertz at left-back.

3 hours ago, big blue said:

Thought Bosingwa was pretty underwhelming, not helped by the fact he missed nearly the full season in his second year with a bad injury, which was also the title win under Carlo.

Had his moments, but never really lived up to his billing as that attacking right back, and he wasnt cheap at double the price we paid for Ivanovic and Azpi. 

From what I can remember, Bosingwa was notoriously bad at his positioning, abit like Alonso at left back. He’d leave acres of space behind him and as a result we’re under grave danger, that seems to happen every game he played in.

Excluding that fine performance as a centre back of course.

I dunno. I could be miles off but I still think Havertz can be a real player for us. Yep, he is plop at the moment but I just have a gut feeling. He needs to toughen up and realise the pace is quicker in the EPL. But he has all the tools physically, and for me it's more a case of how mentally strong he is and how much he wants it.

1 hour ago, just said:

I dunno. I could be miles off but I still think Havertz can be a real player for us. Yep, he is plop at the moment but I just have a gut feeling. He needs to toughen up and realise the pace is quicker in the EPL. But he has all the tools physically, and for me it's more a case of how mentally strong he is and how much he wants it.

I agree with you, Havertz just has that something about him that makes him stand out from the rest.

He hasn’t really shown anything yet but you just can see it.

2 hours ago, just said:

I dunno. I could be miles off but I still think Havertz can be a real player for us. Yep, he is plop at the moment but I just have a gut feeling. He needs to toughen up and realise the pace is quicker in the EPL. But he has all the tools physically, and for me it's more a case of how mentally strong he is and how much he wants it.

 

58 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I agree with you, Havertz just has that something about him that makes him stand out from the rest.

He hasn’t really shown anything yet but you just can see it.

Yup exactly this.

He's got the raw tools and I thought he showed it earlier in the year when he won a few headers and was using his size better. I have a feeling we're going to see him in a 10 free role soonish with Ziyech, Pulisic and Werner around him to try and compensate for his lack of pressing.

2 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

I agree with you, Havertz just has that something about him that makes him stand out from the rest.

He hasn’t really shown anything yet but you just can see it.

I don't think you meant this as a joke but it sure read like one lol