8 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

When we sign player, manager is always asked about their opinion. I refuse to believe that Lamp did not want werner,ziyech or haverz. He tried to play all of them as often as he can.

Reports from the summer say that above all else, Lampard wanted Rice.

I believe that the manager will put forward recommendations, but gets no final say on signings. 

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Agree with this.

The likes of Pulisic, Havertz, Werner and Ziyech have looked like they belong at Sheffield United for almost the entire season. Regardless of who's the manager. Throw Tammy Abraham in there as well because he's not been any better really.

So it looks fancy on paper but when it comes down too it they've all been sh*te. Lampard couldn't get a tune out of them, Tuchel can't get a tune out of them. At some point you have to stop looking at the conductor and realize the instruments are the issue.

Give it more time first, Tuchel has gone for a pragmatic approach. I think we can all agree Southampton was definitely on him, that was a bottle job, a game we should've won but we set up too defensively. 

Right now, he's starting to put Ziyech, Pulisic and I think eventually Havertz will come back into the mix. Just at the minute, we're playing really hard teams, so it's not the easiest to get your players back into form. The four players you just mentioned all need to start performing, or we're going to miss out on top 4. Because they just haven't done it all season. That goes for Werner also, he's had more game time than any of those listed and still hasn't fully delivered. 

 

9 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I believe Abraham was injured, so I got told on the matchday thread anyway. 

Tuchel admitted after the game he was dropped.

Just now, dkw said:

Tuchel admitted after the game he was dropped.

Oh okay apologies, I heard he got injured. 

You misunderstand me,  I said specifically, doesn't mean he refused them but he may not have wanted Werner and Havertz specifically just players with certain characteristics. Ziyech 100% he earned his respect last season when we played Ajax. 

I'm sure he would have rather the budget allocated on a DM rather than £70m on a AM we didn't really need.

Again its not to say he didn't want Werner, but he wanted a striker and when signing Werner I presume he thought that's what we were getting.

If the board (or Frank chose Werner out of all the striker targets which again I don't think Frank himself did) failed to acknowledge the fact Werner works better as an inside fwd rather than a striker that's on them.

 I doubt Lampard signed Werner to play just as a LF or Lw (or maybe he did) he played him there due to injuries but originally he was being played as a out and out striker before things went down hill and he persevered with him on the wing.

6 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

When we sign player, manager is always asked about their opinion. I refuse to believe that Lamp did not want werner,ziyech or haverz. He tried to play all of them as often as he can.

Let's not pretend that all summer we were chasing Werner, at one point it was like an open secret Liverpool would sign him. There were even articles stating how Chelsea saw the opportunity to snipe him.

He himself would constantly rave about Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp so let's not pretend he was always the striker target we had planned to sign.

Again I don't work for Chelsea so I can't say much about their transfer policy or targets but we were not even linked with him in January or at least not concretely. 

As far as I'm concerned the board saw an opportunity to sign 'World Class' players asked Frank who I presume said yes and did so with those 2 being the corner stone for our future teams.

Frank had a clear style last season it became unclear once he tried to fit in all of the players that were signed this summer. This isn't even me trying to defend Lamps or his tactics it just looks from the outside in that when we signed Werner and Havertz in the summer we signed them more so for who they are and less so for how well they would integrate into the team Frank was using last season. Feel free to disagree

 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

We don't really know how the club is run, that's likely the case though. But who knows if they're Lampards targets or not. 

I did think Werner and Ziyech we're not our style of players for possession based football. Both players looked very direct to me, Ziyech loves to release the ball on the counter and get into space, Werner loves running onto the ball. Havertz looked ideal though, like the type of player Lampard was crying out for last season, someone running into the box and scoring goals.

Even Sarri was being consulted when we signed pulisic (it wasnt his choice). No manager will want to work at this level if his input is not listened. Of course, the manager can't say I want mbappe and the team has to get it. 

You are right saying that werner and ziyech are suited for faster tempo. That is not a problem though our team can play faster tempo easily. The problem with all these players on offense was are they suited to one another ? Will they work their ass off on defense when they are no longer the star of the team ? And lastly if they don't fit together, who should we focus the team around ?

32 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Reports from the summer say that above all else, Lampard wanted Rice.

I believe that the manager will put forward recommendations, but gets no final say on signings. 

Of course that is the case with all manager. West Ham was reported want 70 m for rice

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by Bob stark

13 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

You misunderstand me,  I said specifically, doesn't mean he refused them but he may not have wanted Werner and Havertz specifically just players with certain characteristics. Ziyech 100% he earned his respect last season when we played Ajax. 

I'm sure he would have rather the budget allocated on a DM rather than £70m on a AM we didn't really need.

Again its not to say he didn't want Werner, but he wanted a striker and when signing Werner I presume he thought that's what we were getting.

If the board (or Frank chose Werner out of all the striker targets which again I don't think Frank himself did) failed to acknowledge the fact Werner works better as an inside fwd rather than a striker that's on them.

 I doubt Lampard signed Werner to play just as a LF or Lw (or maybe he did) he played him there due to injuries but originally he was being played as a out and out striker before things went down hill and he persevered with him on the wing.

Let's not pretend that all summer we were chasing Werner, at one point it was like an open secret Liverpool would sign him. There were even articles stating how Chelsea saw the opportunity to snipe him.

He himself would constantly rave about Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp so let's not pretend he was always the striker target we had planned to sign.

Again I don't work for Chelsea so I can't say much about their transfer policy or targets but we were not even linked with him in January or at least not concretely. 

As far as I'm concerned the board saw an opportunity to sign 'World Class' players asked Frank who I presume said yes and did so with those 2 being the corner stone for our future teams.

Frank had a clear style last season it became unclear once he tried to fit in all of the players that were signed this summer. This isn't even me trying to defend Lamps or his tactics it just looks from the outside in that when we signed Werner and Havertz in the summer we signed them more so for who they are and less so for how well they would integrate into the team Frank was using last season. Feel free to disagree

 

Not really, I completely agree with you that Lamp pretty much abandon what we have last year and had massive problem incorporating all these attacker which imo simply not suited to one another.

Like you said about werner and havert, we were not linked with these two players. I am pretty sure once the club know that these two player are availabe, Lamp was consulted and asked about his opinion.

1 hour ago, Wearyourcolours said:

We as a club 

We only did that AFTER Sarri had already left LOL nobody at the club talked about sacking Sarri after getting top 3 and winning Europa League you can be sure of that!

11 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Not really, I completely agree with you that Lamp pretty much abandon what we have last year and had massive problem incorporating all these attacker which imo simply not suited to one another.

Like you said about werner and havert, we were not linked with these two players. I am pretty sure once the club know that these two player are availabe, Lamp was consulted and asked about his opinion.

Chelsea had been monitoring Havertz for a couple of years and had it not been for our ban we would've signed him the Summer window before.

For me the biggest disappointment this season aside from the Lamps sacking (which was needed imho I don't think we would stand a chance in ucl or make up enough ground of top 4 if he stayed whereas TT at least has a chance) has been Pulisic. 

I don't just mean his form but his game time, I get he's injury prone and has to be managed but I really had hoped to see him playing more. It would be nice if Tuchel gave him a run in the team to build up form because 20 min Cameos aren't enough or Fa cup games with pitches that look like the last one...

It's so annoying watching Christian play this season because he's not the same player on the pitch and mentally. Last season he was always looking for a 1-2 give and go  as well as dribbling now he just dribbles. Its like he feels he has to prove himself to the new manager because clearly he isn't being viewed as a 1st teamer in this short stretch of games that have gone.

Again its early days under tuchel but 1 start in 9 games doesn't bode well. Especially when he says to the press he deserves to start. The Man U game would have been ideal here's hoping he gets one in the next 3 fixtures.

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by LongtimerLurker

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We only did that AFTER Sarri had already left LOL nobody at the club talked about sacking Sarri after getting top 3 and winning Europa League you can be sure of that!

Ok if you say so, go back and check what you’re saying.

In the lead up to the Europa final, everyone was aware this was his final game, and Juve hadn’t even come into the picture at that point.

But stick with your story that Sarri was definitely going to be the manager for 19/20 season.

1 minute ago, Imran_CFC said:

Chelsea had been monitoring Havertz for a couple of years and had it not been for our ban we would've signed him the Summer window before.

Is that right ? I thought Havertz case was simply he was available with reasonable price due to he wanted to leave 

Just now, Wearyourcolours said:

Ok if you say so, go back and check what you’re saying.

In the lead up to the Europa final, everyone was aware this was his final game, and Juve hadn’t even come into the picture at that point.

But stick with your story that Sarri was definitely going to be the manager for 19/20 season.

Did Roman tell you this personally or?

3 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

For me the biggest disappointment this season aside from the Lamps sacking (which was needed imho I don't think we would stand a chance in ucl or make up enough ground of top 4 if he stayed whereas TT at least has a chance) has been Pulisic. 

I don't just mean his form but his game time, I get he's injury prone and has to be managed but I really had hoped to see him playing more. It would be nice if Tuchel gave him a run in the team to build up form because 20 min Cameos aren't enough or Fa cup games with pitches that look like the last one...

It's so annoying watching Christian play this season because he's not the same player on the pitch and mentally. Last season he was always looking for a 1-2 give and go  as well as dribbling now he just dribbles. Its like he feels he has to proove himself to the new manager because clearly he isn't being viewed as a 1st teamer in this short stretch of games that have gone.

Again its early days under tuchel but 1 start in 9 games doesn't bode well. Especially when he says to the press he deserves to start. The Man U game would have been ideal here's hoping he gets one in the next 3 fixtures.

Last year puli was spectacular but his role was perfect for him. Kinda Hazard role, with willian accros from him bringing all the defensive work and ball carrying, all puli need to do is get numbers and he was brilliant at times.

 

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Give it more time first, Tuchel has gone for a pragmatic approach. I think we can all agree Southampton was definitely on him, that was a bottle job, a game we should've won but we set up too defensively. 

Right now, he's starting to put Ziyech, Pulisic and I think eventually Havertz will come back into the mix. Just at the minute, we're playing really hard teams, so it's not the easiest to get your players back into form. The four players you just mentioned all need to start performing, or we're going to miss out on top 4. Because they just haven't done it all season. That goes for Werner also, he's had more game time than any of those listed and still hasn't fully delivered. 

 

Our attack have been letting the team down all season. One may argue they were the biggest reason Frank was sacked. In my memory, going back twenty years I don't remember us being so toothless in front of goal, and given the money spent on attacking talent, frankly it's embarrassing.

We let go of Willian, Pedro, Barkley and Batshuayi because Pulisic, CHO, Ziyech, Havertz and Werner on paper looked like a massive upgrade. So far, with the exception of CHO who looked decent but not spectacular, everybody on that list has been various shades of sh*t. Werner started brightly but faded and lost confidence. Ziyech so far has looked lazy, out of place in the EPL and a waste of money.  Pulisic who despite injuries was our most exciting attacker last season, has been shockingly poor. Havertz is still an enigma, clearly a talent, but nowhere near ready to be a difference maker at this point in time for this team. CHO for all the plaudits looked better than the rest but his decision making in the last third has been just as poor. I was hoping for Tammy to improve and make claim for the starting striker role this season but I feel he has too many flaws in his game to develop into a world class centre forward. He runs a lot but he's never where he needs to be, he's tall but he can't head the ball worth sh*t, and is not strong enough to hold up the ball effectively. His stats aren't bad but he's non-factor against quality opponents. In fact, apart from speed and age, he's inferior to Giroud (who's no world beater himself) in every other aspect.

Thank God for Mount dragging this team forward on his young shoulders almost all on his own, and a 34-year old Giroud for his ability to score some important goals seemingly out of nowhere or we would have been even on a depper mess than we're at the moment.

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by abramovich

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Did Roman tell you this personally or?

As I said, revise all you like, Sarri was never staying for year 2 of his contract, fortunately for the club Juve showed interest and it meant they weren’t going to have to compensate him for the old ‘mutual consent’ that was being lined up.

How is your mate Sarri doing these days? That’s right he’s out of work with no interest in him! Cos he isn’t a good manager, but sometimes just sometimes the players take things into their own hands.

2 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

As I said, revise all you like, Sarri was never staying for year 2 of his contract, fortunately for the club Juve showed interest and it meant they weren’t going to have to compensate him for the old ‘mutual consent’ that was being lined up.

How is your mate Sarri doing these days? That’s right he’s out of work with no interest in him! Cos he isn’t a good manager, but sometimes just sometimes the players take things into their own hands.

I didn't revise a single thing. Make no mistake, it is in fact you that has presented a new claim - that Sarri was going to get sacked. The burden of proof is on you, not on me.

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

When we sign player, manager is always asked about their opinion. I refuse to believe that Lamp did not want werner,ziyech or haverz. He tried to play all of them as often as he can.

Is that true ?

Was the manager asked about Torres or Shevchenko ? I understood that these were both RA buys - like it or lump it ?

I don’t know RA but I believe he makes a lot of decisions about players without consultation and that the manager is expected to incorporate them ‘or else’ ?

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I didn't revise a single thing. Make no mistake, it is in fact you that has presented a new claim - that Sarri was going to get sacked. The burden of proof is on you, not on me.

https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-chelsea-are-preparing-to-sack-sarri-and-replace-him-with-lampard-20190520

Just one of the many articles from that time, good enough?

6 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Is that true ?

Was the manager asked about Torres or Shevchenko ? I understood that these were both RA buys - like it or lump it ?

I don’t know RA but I believe he makes a lot of decisions about players without consultation and that the manager is expected to incorporate them ‘or else’ ?

I honestly don't know, it was long time ago. But no manager will want to work when their opinion is not listened, this is obvious.

 

N havertz and werner are not exactly household star name. Unless RA is secretly a bundesliga fan

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by Bob stark

14 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Our attack have been letting the team down all season. One may argue they were the biggest reason Frank was sacked. In my memory, going back twenty years I don't remember us being so toothless in front of goal, and given the money spent on attacking talent, frankly it's embarrassing.

We let go of Willian, Pedro, Barkley and Batshuayi because Pulisic, CHO, Ziyech, Havertz and Werner on paper looked like a massive upgrade. So far, with the exception of CHO who looked decent but not spectacular, everybody on that list has been various shades of sh*t. Werner started brightly but faded and lost confidence. Ziyech so far has looked lazy, out of place in the EPL and a waste of money.  Pulisic who despite injuries was our most exciting attacker last season, has been shockingly poor. Havertz is still an enigma, clearly a talent, but nowhere near ready to be a difference maker at this point in time for this team. CHO for all the plaudits looked better than the rest but his decision making in the last third has been just as poor. I was hoping for Tammy to improve and make claim for the starting striker role this season but I feel he has too many flaws in his game to develop into a world class centre forward. He runs a lot but he's never where he needs to be, he's tall but he can't head the ball worth sh*t, and is not strong enough to hold up the ball effectively. His stats aren't bad but he's non-factor against quality opponents. In fact, apart from speed and age, he's inferior to Giroud (who's no world beater himself) in every other aspect.

Thank God for Mount dragging this team forward on his young shoulders almost all on his own, and a 34-year old Giroud for his ability to score some important goals seemingly out of nowhere or we would have been even on a depper mess than we're at the moment.

Mount, Giroud and Silva have been by far our most reliable and consistent players this season, without question. Everyone else has had very patchy form. 

I think it's very likely Mount takes POTY this time, he's the only one in attack who's actually doing something with it. 

3 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

………… But no manager will want to work when their opinion is not listened, this is obvious.

Remind me, how many managers have Chelsea gone through since Mr A took over ? 

11 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Mount, Giroud and Silva have been by far our most reliable and consistent players this season, without question. Everyone else has had very patchy form. 

I think it's very likely Mount takes POTY this time, he's the only one in attack who's actually doing something with it. 

Well if your going to include Giroud in the reliable and consistent list then I would argue Reece too imo .

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Mount, Giroud and Silva have been by far our most reliable and consistent players this season, without question. Everyone else has had very patchy form. 

I think it's very likely Mount takes POTY this time, he's the only one in attack who's actually doing something with it. 

Mason is also guilty of being wasteful in front of goal but at least he's making things happen. Everybody else in the attacking end is a passenger.

I just feel so frustrated watching us match after match. How could so many quality players lose form/confidence/ability to score all of a sudden? When was the last time we scored a goal from outside the box from an open play and do we even have anyone in the squad capable of this? I just can't wrap my head around it.