9 minutes ago, coco said:

Ok done, see you around some time.

I know he was literally asking for it but Jesus fella - abuse your power much? 

3 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

I know he was literally asking for it but Jesus fella - abuse your power much? 

You think thats abuse ? wait till you see our dungeon.

1 minute ago, coco said:

You think thats abuse ? wait till you see our dungeon.

I always wondered where @Valerie is when she hasn’t posted for a while...

5 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

I always wondered where @Valerie is when she hasn’t posted for a while...

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

If these are the reactions now, I f**king dread to see what this forum will be like when we lose a game. 

The same as yours when we lost to Arsenal?

1 hour ago, coco said:

TT did have an easy start, also Jose and Klopp have done everything they can to welcome Tuchel to England and help him get back to 4th, just a shame a few other managers weren't as accommodating.

That's an interesting take, but I have a problem with it for a different reason, not because what you say isn't true;

It sounds as if everything we got wasn't due to our own effort but due to other teams letting us have it for free.

It doesn't help that you're the only saying it either, yes Tuchel had an easy start but if the results were different - if Wolves had won the first game it wouldn't have been a surprise since we already lost to them previously so that wouldn't have been an easy start right off the bat.
We kept possession and focused not to lose - that's on us you can think it was played too much safe and I think you would be right for thinking so, but somehow the argument is that they didn't care to win and only because of that, it was a draw... Why defend and argue for the opposition? Nobody does that for us, at least I'm not aware of it.
But because we didn't lose a game so far it looks like it has been an easy ride, that's not really fair towards our squad let alone towards our manager - We're not in this position to fight for a top 4 finish once again because almost all managers just moved out of the way. By your reasoning I can also say that last season Lampard got into top 4 due to other managers letting us through, everyone accommodated Lampard as much as possible last season. But that would be me lying to you and we both know that this simply isn't the truth.
So why even consider these things, it sounds so unfair towards Lampard as it would be unfair towards anyone else in that position - e.g. "Sarri only got to top 3 because he had Hazard" Let's just ignore everything that really happened during that season, let us also ignore that Conte also had Hazard but finished top 5 just the season before - on top of Conte finishing top 5, Lampard finished top 4 even without Hazard so let's find someone else that is 100% responsible for us finishing top 4 last season because it can't be the manager that had anything to do with it! I'm just trying to point out that if we were to have the same attitude towards everybody at our club as we treat some specific people that are or were at the club, none of us would sound like we're even supporting Chelsea. E.g. "We only won the CL because we had Drogba, the rest were just terrible and the other teams just let us play our game, nobody ever tried to pressure us they all just allowed us to go with our plan, they never tried to stop our counter attacks and most managers didn't really care to win against us so they gave us an easy time, you know how it can be we're just lucky that the big teams didn't show up..."
if someone were to tell me this I would never assume that guy was a Chelsea fan and yet I have read multiple times on this forum basically stuff like this, some might say that it's not the same thing and it's not really comparable but to me if you constantly search to diminish our team you're not exactly the ideal guy to talk about CFC, that's just me maybe but it's not the same to say that we need to improve, yes we do need to improve but if you go further on and keep bashing our squad and have digs at present and past people that were at the club and then look down at our own results that IMO we should feel good about - I'm not sure then if you're the best representative of the fans. The Chelsea fans that I have seen on youtube don't have this type of rhetoric, they don't bash our team this much, IMO if I were to go to London in the future and find a pub full of Chelsea fans I'm certain that nobody would be so negative.

IMO Jose didn't do us any favors, he tried to keep it tight in defense and to hope for a counter exactly how we have played in the past countless times. We beat them, we managed.
Klopp's team fell down, that's something outside of our control but then you have to ask yourself if other fans, e.g. if Leicester fans ever care about if another team lost and see that as the main reason why they are in a good position - I have never heard anywhere online a Leicester fan saying that they have been a better team in recent years due to "Chelsea doing everything they can in order for them to succeed." Why do you also buy into this type of rhetoric?

Yes it's true - Tuchel had an easier first set of games but it's the PL it wasn't a given that we would have won those games, or played those draws.

I don't think anyone has done us any favors, I can't believe that so many forgot that we used to be exactly like this Atletico, this Jose's Spurs and so on and so on - the term "park the bus" was very much used to describe our own team in general in a not so distant past.
We won the CL playing Barcelona with <30% possession and in the CL final we had 1 shot on target and scored from it, why do you think that now when we have had most of the possession that other teams are not playing football when they play us and that they just let us do what we want? We didn't let those teams do what they wanted even if they had 75% possession.

Sorry for the long post, I'm just struggling as a fan when I see that so many are so negative because all I see is that we have a good chance to finish top 4 this season which isn't bad given that our new manager didn't even train the team that much. For me the best way to improve is if Tuchel does well so that we don't need to search for another manager so I'm choosing to be hopeful.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

if Wolves had won the first game it wouldn't have been a surprise since we already lost to them previously so that wouldn't have been an easy start right off the bat.
We kept possession and focused not to lose - that's on us you can think it was played too much safe and I think you would be right for thinking so, but somehow the argument is that they didn't care to win and only because of that, it was a draw... Why defend and argue for the opposition? Nobody does that for us, at least I'm not aware of it.
But because we didn't lose a game so far it looks like it has been an easy ride, that's not really fair towards our squad let alone towards our manager - We're not in this position to fight for a top 4 finish once again because almost all managers just moved out of the way. By your reasoning I can also say that last season Lampard got into top 4 due to other managers letting us through, everyone accommodated Lampard as much as possible last season. But that would be me lying to you and we both know that this simply isn't the truth.
So why even consider these things, it sounds so unfair towards Lampard as it would be unfair towards anyone else in that position - e.g. "Sarri only got to top 3 because he had Hazard" Let's just ignore everything that really happened during that season, let us also ignore that Conte also had Hazard but finished top 5 just the season before - on top of Conte finishing top 5, Lampard finished top 4 even without Hazard so let's find someone else that is 100% responsible for us finishing top 4 last season because it can't be the manager that had anything to do with it! I'm just trying to point out that if we were to have the same attitude towards everybody at our club as we treat some specific people that are or were at the club, none of us would sound like we're even supporting Chelsea. E.g. "We only won the CL because we had Drogba, the rest were just terrible and the other teams just let us play our game, nobody ever tried to pressure us they all just allowed us to go with our plan, they never tried to stop our counter attacks and most managers didn't really care to win against us so they gave us an easy time, you know how it can be we're just lucky that the big teams didn't show up..."
if someone were to tell me this I would never assume that guy was a Chelsea fan and yet I have read multiple times on this forum basically stuff like this, some might say that it's not the same thing and it's not really comparable but to me if you constantly search to diminish our team you're not exactly the ideal guy to talk about CFC, that's just me maybe but it's not the same to say that we need to improve, yes we do need to improve but if you go further on and keep bashing our squad and have digs at present and past people that were at the club and then look down at our own results that IMO we should feel good about - I'm not sure then if you're the best representative of the fans. The Chelsea fans that I have seen on youtube don't have this type of rhetoric, they don't bash our team this much, IMO if I were to go to London in the future and find a pub full of Chelsea fans I'm certain that nobody would be so negative.

IMO Jose didn't do us any favors, he tried to keep it tight in defense and to hope for a counter exactly how we have played in the past countless times. We beat them, we managed.
Klopp's team fell down, that's something outside of our control but then you have to ask yourself if other fans, e.g. if Leicester fans ever care about if another team lost and see that as the main reason why they are in a good position - I have never heard anywhere online a Leicester fan saying that they have been a better team in recent years due to "Chelsea doing everything they can in order for them to succeed." Why do you also buy into this type of rhetoric?

Yes it's true - Tuchel had an easier first set of games but it's the PL it wasn't a given that we would have won those games, or played those draws.

I don't think anyone has done us any favors, I can't believe that so many forgot that we used to be exactly like this Atletico, this Jose's Spurs and so on and so on - the term "park the bus" was very much used to describe our own team in general in a not so distant past.
We won the CL playing Barcelona with <30% possession and in the CL final we had 1 shot on target and scored from it, why do you think that now when we have had most of the possession that other teams are not playing football when they play us and that they just let us do what we want? We didn't let those teams do what they wanted even if they had 75% possession.

Sorry for the long post, I'm just struggling as a fan when I see that so many are so negative because all I see is that we have a good chance to finish top 4 this season which isn't bad given that our new manager didn't even train the team that much. For me the best way to improve is if Tuchel does well so that we don't need to search for another manager so I'm choosing to be hopeful.

You got it wrong, when i say Jose and Klopp have been welcoming, i mean in terms of their teams poor form and dropping down the table allowing us to leap frog them. I read all your post anyway seeing as you took the effort 

15 minutes ago, coco said:

You got it wrong, when i say Jose and Klopp have been welcoming, i mean in terms of their teams poor form and dropping down the table allowing us to leap frog them. I read all your post anyway seeing as you took the effort 

Well I'm sorry then if I misinterpreted your post and saw things between the lines that weren't really there, I wasn't sure if you really meant that it's sad that for example Moyes didn't also start losing games or if you meant that our results are all about other teams doing poorly most of all... Thanks for reading it anyway.

well I follow some of the ex managers and happy to see Conte who I really admire despite his overt the top antics is likely to get Inter to the top of the Scudetto. Along with Ancelotti I feel Conte was the most hard done by manager at CFC. Would have included Sarri but he was happy to go.

As for Tuchel not much more to say. There are five really tough games in our current spell. Athletico x 2, Manu, Liverpool and Everton. So far we have a win and a draw, but the games come quickly and each is hard.

Result was it was ok.

Performance wise,same story pretty much every game we play this season. We conceded little,created little. Rinse,Repeat. 

I really like Giroud but I have no idea what is the point of having him today, same with Ziyeh what is the point. 

 

Right from the start TT has managed to implement his game plan and style, which given the turn around vs Wolves is impressive.

He has managed to get players who, in my view, are nowhere near to being top players, to function very well as a composed and solid defense. This is also impressive given he only has one very good defender in Silva imo.

Defending by keeping the ball. As was said earlier here the less the opposition has the ball, the less the chances of them scoring.

The result vs Atletico was impressive as was how we shackled their offense.

Given I was and remain fully in the camp that wanted Lamps to get more time I wanted to point these positives out.

However TT has not been able to do anything so far to improve the attack that was faltering under Lamps, in fact they seem to be getting worse.

We seem to have an embarrassment of riches there, CHO, Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, Pulisic etc yet all of these have massively disappointed basically all season and the only one to look better under Tuchel is CHO purely for his defensive work.

Tammy has regressed imo, Giroud is Giroud, sometimes takes the game by the neck others seems short. Been that way since he came to us. We remain being reliant on Mount to drive us forward.

Tuchel needs to get some of these players firing, or failing that bring in Anjorin and Jude SB if he cannot as the attack is holding us back big time.

Honestly, a big fan of what he has done so far.  Now I'd like to see him take the shackles off a little and attack with more intent.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Right from the start TT has managed to implement his game plan and style, which given the turn around vs Wolves is impressive.

He has managed to get players who, in my view, are nowhere near to being top players, to function very well as a composed and solid defense. This is also impressive given he only has one very good defender in Silva imo.

Defending by keeping the ball. As was said earlier here the less the opposition has the ball, the less the chances of them scoring.

The result vs Atletico was impressive as was how we shackled their offense.

Given I was and remain fully in the camp that wanted Lamps to get more time I wanted to point these positives out.

However TT has not been able to do anything so far to improve the attack that was faltering under Lamps, in fact they seem to be getting worse.

We seem to have an embarrassment of riches there, CHO, Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, Pulisic etc yet all of these have massively disappointed basically all season and the only one to look better under Tuchel is CHO purely for his defensive work.

Tammy has regressed imo, Giroud is Giroud, sometimes takes the game by the neck others seems short. Been that way since he came to us. We remain being reliant on Mount to drive us forward.

Tuchel needs to get some of these players firing, or failing that bring in Anjorin and Jude SB if he cannot as the attack is holding us back big time.

I don't think our defender is as bad as people think. None of our cb are wc,but they are good enough as long as you give them protectiom

What TT has done is pretty much turned us into a defensive juggernaut. Conservative system (32 at the back at all time) + slow and heavy possesion football. It is like watching city play minus all their technical player

9 hours ago, Gol15 said:

It doesn't matter if we're 3 points behind them, yes it would have been great if we had won but our goal is top 4 not top 2... Winning against the Manchester teams was always going to be a bonus if it happen, look at Man United they didn't win that many games against the top teams this season but they won a lot of smaller games, this is what we need to do in order to reach top 4.

We went from being 8-9th to top 4 in just a few games and now we're top 5, every game matters but we can't suddenly be so disappointed that we didn't win against the 2nd best team in the league, that's how I see it. 

There is a difference between being "so disappointed that we didn't win against the 2nd best team" to being disappointed at a prolonged period of ineffective play, that doesn't play to any of our attacking strengths, doesn't create any/many clear cut chances, is slow, predictable, boring and shows little ambition.

But then, I guess it's hard to expect someone who thinks our current performances are "good" to see this. 

In the match day thread that you admitted that you thought our performances were good against Barnsley (1 shot on goal), Spurs (2 shots on goal, 1 of which was a pen), 8 losses on the bounce Southampton (3 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen) and bottom of the league Sheffield Utd (4 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen.

4 games. 10 shots on target. 4 goals (3 of which were pens) - combined with the stagnant, backwards/sideways, slow rubbish that they churned out in those games (and the most recent one against Utd) 

So people are not solely pissed that we missed yet another opportunity to take points from a rival, but that Chelsea in the last 17 games have given  performances that are not fitting of a team at the level we strive to me, not good enough and on top of that, simply boring. 

 

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by nonotnowjim

For me until we improve on our midfield i.e Kovacic, Jorginho and Kante, we will lack creativity for our more attacking players.

We could look at playing either Kovacic or Kante in the deeper role, with Mount and Havertz more ahead. I would want to give Havertz more play time as he will come good, but that won't happen if he is just stuck on the bench or coming on as a sub for 5/10 minutes.

The guy would have been a better option than Pulisic in the False 9 position yesterday.

Clearly some people are bashing TT as they are still bitter about the Lampard sacking. To answer those wondering what was the point, well it's quite simple, TT has put us back into a realistic battle for top 4. Lampard had that hope falling further and further away after each game. For all those saying TT has had an easier run of games, I highly doubt Lampard at that very moment would've suddenly taken us on an 8 game unbeaten run. 

The performances are still horrible and painful to watch but the results have improved. That's what counts more than anything in football, results. 

He's changed the system in order to bring positive results and it has worked. Only problem is this system is very restrictive and doesn't allow us to fully utilise our attacking options who completely flop when they get good chances.

I said it would be a miracle to get top 4 and although it just still seems unlikely, give him a  chance. Next season there will be no excuses, just like Lampard had none this season.

23 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Clearly some people are bashing TT as they are still bitter about the Lampard sacking. To answer those wondering what was the point, well it's quite simple, TT has put us back into a realistic battle for top 4. Lampard had that hope falling further and further away after each game. For all those saying TT has had an easier run of games, I highly doubt Lampard at that very moment would've suddenly taken us on an 8 game unbeaten run. 

The performances are still horrible and painful to watch but the results have improved. That's what counts more than anything in football, results. 

He's changed the system in order to bring positive results and it has worked. Only problem is this system is very restrictive and doesn't allow us to fully utilise our attacking options who completely flop when they get good chances.

I said it would be a miracle to get top 4 and although it just still seems unlikely, give him a  chance. Next season there will be no excuses, just like Lampard had none this season.

We didn't win 4 or more league games in a row for the entire of 2020. Even when things were looking good/promising under Frank we still struggled to find a consistent winning streak yet we're suppose to believe he'd have gone immediately from 15/16 lite form to suddenly his biggest PL winning streak in 15 months.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

There is a difference between being "so disappointed that we didn't win against the 2nd best team" to being disappointed at a prolonged period of ineffective play, that doesn't play to any of our attacking strengths, doesn't create any/many clear cut chances, is slow, predictable, boring and shows little ambition.

But then, I guess it's hard to expect someone who thinks our current performances are "good" to see this. 

In the match day thread that you admitted that you thought our performances were good against Barnsley (1 shot on goal), Spurs (2 shots on goal, 1 of which was a pen), 8 losses on the bounce Southampton (3 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen) and bottom of the league Sheffield Utd (4 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen.

4 games. 10 shots on target. 4 goals (3 of which were pens) - combined with the stagnant, backwards/sideways, slow rubbish that they churned out in those games (and the most recent one against Utd) 

So people are not solely pissed that we missed yet another opportunity to take points from a rival, but that Chelsea in the last 17 games have given  performances that are not fitting of a team at the level we strive to me, not good enough and on top of that, simply boring. 

 

And that's fine in principal if you think that but where was the same energy for Conte, Mou, Hiddink, Lampard and Ancelotti when they had their run of boring/controlled games? 

41 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Clearly some people are bashing TT as they are still bitter about the Lampard sacking. To answer those wondering what was the point, well it's quite simple, TT has put us back into a realistic battle for top 4. Lampard had that hope falling further and further away after each game. For all those saying TT has had an easier run of games, I highly doubt Lampard at that very moment would've suddenly taken us on an 8 game unbeaten run. 

The performances are still horrible and painful to watch but the results have improved. That's what counts more than anything in football, results. 

He's changed the system in order to bring positive results and it has worked. Only problem is this system is very restrictive and doesn't allow us to fully utilise our attacking options who completely flop when they get good chances.

I said it would be a miracle to get top 4 and although it just still seems unlikely, give him a  chance. Next season there will be no excuses, just like Lampard had none this season.

I don’t see anyone bashing Tuchel? Could you kindly show me some quotes?

No secret Tuchel is playing safe, at least for the rest of the season. I don't see us losing many games, but definitely will draw lots , and likely getting edged out in tight cup games by a small margin. We must beat those teams outside the top 6 in remaining games to clinch a top 4 spot, have the feeling we will get another 0:0 against Liverpool, which normally not a bad result, but will hurt us comes end of the season. In earlier games against weaker teams, it's poor finishing. Last night we just didn't create much, and to be fair United didn't park the bus like spurs or Atletico. 

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

There is a difference between being "so disappointed that we didn't win against the 2nd best team" to being disappointed at a prolonged period of ineffective play, that doesn't play to any of our attacking strengths, doesn't create any/many clear cut chances, is slow, predictable, boring and shows little ambition.

But then, I guess it's hard to expect someone who thinks our current performances are "good" to see this. 

In the match day thread that you admitted that you thought our performances were good against Barnsley (1 shot on goal), Spurs (2 shots on goal, 1 of which was a pen), 8 losses on the bounce Southampton (3 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen) and bottom of the league Sheffield Utd (4 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen.

4 games. 10 shots on target. 4 goals (3 of which were pens) - combined with the stagnant, backwards/sideways, slow rubbish that they churned out in those games (and the most recent one against Utd) 

So people are not solely pissed that we missed yet another opportunity to take points from a rival, but that Chelsea in the last 17 games have given  performances that are not fitting of a team at the level we strive to me, not good enough and on top of that, simply boring. 

 

1. This is still much better than losing most games and barely winning against Fulham that had a player less, don't pretend that we were better before Tuchel because we were much worse.

2. Tuchel didn't really have the time to fix the attack problems he focused on making a more stable team and we have been a hard team to beat, before that nobody was really afraid to attack us but now teams struggle against us, Man Utd scored over 50 goals this season yet they couldn't do anything against us.

3. You're thinking outside of our current situation so you're way off, there is a reason why Tuchel took over our team, we clearly had a lot of problems and those problems can't be solved so fast so the fact that we stopped losing games is a good improvement for us, you have to ignore our own situation and to just pretend that we should simply compete with the best out of nowhere in order to be unhappy with a draw against one of the best teams - some month ago nobody would expect Alonso, Rudiger and Christensen to have any impact in our results, most of the fans wrote those guys off.

Switching the goal posts constantly is just silly, fact is we're looking for a push into top 4 and as much as we didn't create enough yesterday we simply weren't favorites against Man Utd so from our perspective to play a draw and get a point out of it is good. No point pretending that we are as good as Man City and that yesterday's game should have been an easy win but I guess it's easy to complain about anything...

16 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

No secret Tuchel is playing safe, at least for the rest of the season. I don't see us losing many games, but definitely will draw lots , and likely getting edged out in tight cup games by a small margin. We must beat those teams outside the top 6 in remaining games to clinch a top 4 spot, have the feeling we will get another 0:0 against Liverpool, which normally not a bad result, but will hurt us comes end of the season. In earlier games against weaker teams, it's poor finishing. Last night we just didn't create much, and to be fair United didn't park the bus like spurs or Atletico. 

We will look to get the narrow wins and to get a draw against better teams, that for a start isn't that bad specially if we manage to secure a top 4 finish.

Tuchel has the full right to play it safe and then fix some of our problems in the summer, if he had played a 4-3-3 like Lampard without having any time to implement his tactics the trend of our results might not have changed in our favor at all.

I believe that Tuchel should change to a back 4 formation when T.Silva is ready to play again - specially if possible against Liverpool which is in 3 days time.
And if CHO can't play that game then by default we would be looking a bit less dangerous since James is more of a defensive player even if he does know how to put in a cross.

Tuchel didn't have the time to change much but he did make us a harder team to beat, we should try to punish Liverpool that is missing some key players so it's worth to risk more against Liverpool but I'm sure that if we lose that game people will jump out of their caves and just bash our team endlessly...

 

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

There is a difference between being "so disappointed that we didn't win against the 2nd best team" to being disappointed at a prolonged period of ineffective play, that doesn't play to any of our attacking strengths, doesn't create any/many clear cut chances, is slow, predictable, boring and shows little ambition.

But then, I guess it's hard to expect someone who thinks our current performances are "good" to see this. 

In the match day thread that you admitted that you thought our performances were good against Barnsley (1 shot on goal), Spurs (2 shots on goal, 1 of which was a pen), 8 losses on the bounce Southampton (3 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen) and bottom of the league Sheffield Utd (4 shots on target, 1 of which was a pen.

4 games. 10 shots on target. 4 goals (3 of which were pens) - combined with the stagnant, backwards/sideways, slow rubbish that they churned out in those games (and the most recent one against Utd) 

So people are not solely pissed that we missed yet another opportunity to take points from a rival, but that Chelsea in the last 17 games have given  performances that are not fitting of a team at the level we strive to me, not good enough and on top of that, simply boring. 

 

This is the perfect post for me. I’m delighted we’re back in contention for top 4 and the results we’ve had of late but my god we are awful to watch in my opinion. As you’ve said, most of those wins were via goals from penalties. 
TT has made us more solid at the back there’s no disputing that but when you’re playing a back 5 that’s to be expected. The attack is even more toothless now than it was before.

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by EdinburghBlue

45 minutes ago, Argo said:

We didn't win 4 or more league games in a row for the entire of 2020. Even when things were looking good/promising under Frank we still struggled to find a consistent winning streak yet we're suppose to believe he'd have gone immediately from 15/16 lite form to suddenly his biggest PL winning streak in 15 months.

We won 6 in a row in PL and CL scoring scoring 18 and suffering 2 goals. Yo may argue that it was an easy streak of matches, but just like those we've played until At Madrid and we did not score half the goals we did back then. If that's not good enough for you to see what the ex-coach was capable of achieving, then at least do not argue that we are having wet dreams at present.

1 minute ago, RMH said:

We won 6 in a row in PL and CL scoring scoring 18 and suffering 2 goals. Yo may argue that it was an easy streak of matches, but just like those we've played until At Madrid and we did not score half the goals we did back then. If that's not good enough for you to see what the ex-coach was capable of achieving, then at least do not argue that we are having wet dreams at present.

We were unbeaten with Lampard in more than 15 games at the start of the season, we are unbeaten now as well but somehow now this is a problem but with Lampard that wasn't a problem.

We had in total only 8 wins with Lampard this season in around 19 games in the league, we couldn't win against a better team at all but that's easy to forget now isn't it?

Tuchel already has 4 wins out of 7 games and we won against Spurs at least. But sure let's whine that we didn't beat Man Utd at home because we surely had over 40k fans supporting us and we had a real advantage!