Tuchel's record in the league

Played 7, won 4, drawn 3. 

15 points from a possible 21.

Next two opponents are Liverpool and Everton who occupy the two spaces immediately below us. 

Everton have two games in hand, should they win those they would go above us by two points. 

Tottenham have a game in hand that if they win would take them to within two points of us. 

Aston Villa have two games in hand which if they won would take them a point above us. 

 

We can't afford to draw many games, let alone lose them between now and the end of the season. Drawing the Southampton game meant that a win was more essential yesterday and the draw does us little good. I don't think we can afford to lose to Liverpool on Thursday if we want to make the top four and we almost certainly have to beat Everton. 

7 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Tuchel's record in the league

Played 7, won 4, drawn 3. 

15 points from a possible 21.

Next two opponents are Liverpool and Everton who occupy the two spaces immediately below us. 

Everton have two games in hand, should they win those they would go above us by two points. 

Tottenham have a game in hand that if they win would take them to within two points of us. 

Aston Villa have two games in hand which if they won would take them a point above us. 

 

We can't afford to draw many games, let alone lose them between now and the end of the season. Drawing the Southampton game meant that a win was more essential yesterday and the draw does us little good. I don't think we can afford to lose to Liverpool on Thursday if we want to make the top four and we almost certainly have to beat Everton. 

Things are definitely looking tight and I’m disappointed that we didn’t beat Southampton and United. We’re just not creative enough and we’re relying on half chances. 
 

The table shows just how much damage draws can do. From looking in a promising position before Southampton, we’re suddenly looking over our shoulder. 

9 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Tuchel's record in the league

Played 7, won 4, drawn 3. 

15 points from a possible 21.

Next two opponents are Liverpool and Everton who occupy the two spaces immediately below us. 

Everton have two games in hand, should they win those they would go above us by two points. 

Tottenham have a game in hand that if they win would take them to within two points of us. 

Aston Villa have two games in hand which if they won would take them a point above us. 

 

We can't afford to draw many games, let alone lose them between now and the end of the season. Drawing the Southampton game meant that a win was more essential yesterday and the draw does us little good. I don't think we can afford to lose to Liverpool on Thursday if we want to make the top four and we almost certainly have to beat Everton. 

It will come down to the last games, we must beat West Ham also and it would be great if we win 2/3 of our last 3 games vs Arsenal, Leicester and Villa.

Must win those games against direct rivals for the top 4:

Everton (H)
West Ham (A)
Leicester (H)

and it would be great if we can win against Leeds, Palace, Villa, Sheffield...

10 hours ago, axman2526 said:

......seem to have an embarrassment of riches there, CHO, Ziyech, Werner, Havertz, Pulisic etc yet all of these have massively disappointed basically all season and the only one to look better under Touched is CHO purely for his defensive work.

 

There in lies the rub - the word ‘seem’ .

We are back to that piece of paper where it is written that these are generational , once in a life time talents , when in fact, thus far, they have been, mostly, no better than bang average or , in some instances, even worse.

Can they, will they come good ? f**k knows, but I have to say the signs for Ziyech particularly don’t look good to me - I wonder if Havertz will prove to be as much of a disappointment as Ozil ?

They are included in our PL & CL squads and all the while they are there, no one else can be considered so the biggest task ahead will be deciding who is staying and who isn’t and whether the decision makers believe what’s written on the various bits of paper ?

Oh, and, for me, you can add Mendy to that list too - he’s light years ahead of Kepa but he isn’t good enough to be the first choice keeper and if yesterday he catches the ball (I feel it was eminently catchable) instead of punching it , then there is no penalty drama or controversy ?

I think it’s still early in the evolution of this team. By and large we bought young players this rebuild. I fully support that policy but it takes a while to make it work especially when you change coaches and systems mid season. 

we’ve really seen nothing of Havertz yet. James, mount,cho Tammy as well as havertz and Werner all have their best in front of them. 

I hope we make top 4 this season but it looks like and looked before Tuchel  it’s going to be tight. so playing it tight is a good strategy in my book. Virtually any one will tell you that you build a platform then add on to it. We are building that platform. 

Personally I don’t find watching Chelsea boring at the moment. In fact I far prefer watching Chelsea now than in the last month of lampard when we were regularly losing. It is frustrating but not for me boring. 

1 hour ago, Wearyourcolours said:

I’ll go on the record and say 100% we should have kept Lampard, sacking a club legend after a 7 week poor run was about as embarrassing as it gets, and shows exactly why all other fans dislike us & take the piss out of us!

Do I think certain things have improved under TT, defensively yes, but playing essentially a back 7 I’m hardly surprised at that, but without a doubt we are amongst the worst teams to watch in the league, if not the first 2 divisions.

Yes it’s a results based job, however entertainment is also extremely important, if it weren’t then Sarri would still be in charge, but nobody wanted to put up with that borefest for to long!

There are 1001 reasons why rival other fans hate and take the piss out (not including light hearted banter) and I can assure you sacking a legend player but rookie coach in this circumstance is not high on the list of reasons. 

They only care about our entertainment value when we are playing boring and winning. The latter counts to me by far the most. Remember Jose's second coming and the 1-0 win against Utd almost sealing the title? Rival fans were moaning that we were boring, meanwhile I was loving that Jose fixed the defence after that battering we took at Tottenham.

Sarri got 3rd place in the end from Hazards brilliance and he's no longer in charge because the board felt he wasn't the man to take us to the top. I agree with that.

I also think the board were hopeful that Frank who got us 4th with no investment could take us up a level (title wasn't the be all end all this season) from last season with a huge sumner investment. We actually went backwards so he was sacked. I agree with that too.

They now think that in the next 18 months TT can make us a solid top 4 team and hopefully a realistic title challenger thereafter. That I am hopeful for.

3 boring 1-0 wins will always trump a 3-0 win, 3-3 draw and 4-2 loss in my book. I'll only be concerned about entertainment once we have a consistent winning team.

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by KonaKai Blue

3 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

There are 1001 reasons why rival other fans hate and take the piss out (not including light hearted banter) and I can assure you sacking a legend player but rookie coach in this circumstance is not high on the list of reasons. 

They only care about our entertainment value when we are playing boring and winning. The latter counts to me by far the most.

Sarri got 3rd place in the end from Hazards brilliance and he's no longer in charge because the board felt he wasn't the man to take us to the top. I agree with that.

I also think the board were hopeful that Frank who got us 4th with no investment could take us up a level (title wasn't the be all end all this season) from last season with a huge sumner investment. We actually went backwards so he was sacked. I agree with that too.

They now think that in the next 18 months TT can make us a solid top 4 team and hopefully a realistic title challenger thereafter. That I am hopeful for.

3 boring 1-0 wins will always trump a 3-0 win, 3-3 draw and 4-2 loss in my book. I'll only be concerned about entertainment once we have a consistent winning team.

Sarri wasn't sacked, he left. If a manager wants to go, you let him go. 

2 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Sarri wasn't sacked, he left. If a manager wants to go, you let him go. 

I stand corrected. Still he knew the love from the fans wasn't there. We went on a bad slump and we are risk of losing top 4 status.

Lamps wouldn't have lost his job in a similar run. Difference this season was that this season we dropped well outside of the top 4, level on points with a shocking Arsenal side.

2 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I stand corrected. Still he knew the love from the fans wasn't there. We went on a bad slump and we are risk of losing top 4 status.

Lamps wouldn't have lost his job in a similar run. Difference this season was that this season we dropped well outside of the top 4, level on points with a shocking Arsenal side.

I think it was hard for Sarri to adjust here, the Kepa incident especially humiliated him, as it would any manager. 

30 minutes ago, ozboy said:

I think it’s still early in the evolution of this team. By and large we bought young players this rebuild. I fully support that policy but it takes a while to make it work especially when you change coaches and systems mid season. 

we’ve really seen nothing of Havertz yet. James, mount,cho Tammy as well as havertz and Werner all have their best in front of them. 

I hope we make top 4 this season but it looks like and looked before Tuchel  it’s going to be tight. so playing it tight is a good strategy in my book. Virtually any one will tell you that you build a platform then add on to it. We are building that platform. 

Personally I don’t find watching Chelsea boring at the moment. In fact I far prefer watching Chelsea now than in the last month of lampard when we were regularly losing. It is frustrating but not for me boring. 

I also don’t find it boring. At times it looks pretty good, and even yesterday I thought we put some good moves together.  No goals on the end of them so it’s a “drab affair.” I don’t think yesterday’s performance was any worse than the one v atletico, which many raved about. Without the Giroud goal, which almost wasn’t, the narrative would have been identical to yesterday’s . As for our young players, I'm pretty optimistic too. Based on a combo of what I’ve seen before at Chelsea and elsewhere and the law of averages, I have faith that enough of our youngsters will come through to take us to the next level.

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

United are playing football we can only dream about? I think a lot of United fans would disagree there lmao

I dream about Chelsea putting 9 past Southampton. The same team we struggled to draw against, and only managed a point thanks to a pen.

1 hour ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Let’s see at the end of the season if we’re even near to being a top 4 contender.

We probaby will be in contention for top 4 but United is not far betrer than us

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

1. This is still much better than losing most games and barely winning against Fulham that had a player less, don't pretend that we were better before Tuchel because we were much worse......

Getting chlamydia is “much better” than getting syphilis, but let’s be honest, both are pretty grim and embarrassing. Ditto our recent performances both under lamps and TT.

To make clear, I am not pretending we were better under lamps than we are now.

Under lamps I criticised the slow, insipid, uninspired, boring, uncreative, sideways, safe, anemic, bland dross his team  served up. I will continue to call it out under mr tickle, or whoever is the manager.

A football manager has to get the most out of his players, playing in a way that makes the most of their talents. 

I do not accept that slow, possession based, knock it sideways, inch up to the 18 yrds line, get a nose bleed, hoof it back to the centre backs, knock it left to right, knock it right to left, rinse repeat, football is getting the most out of our players.  Simply put, the way TT has set up the team does not suit the majority of our players. It can be argued that the only player it suits is Jorginho and azpi. 
 

ditto frank.

The way we are playing is unacceptable to me. The style does not suit our players. It is not creating goal scoring opportunities and it leaves us toothless in attack and unable to hurt teams.

This isn’t about lamps, tickle, sarri or whoever the individual is. It is simply about whoever is in the managerial hot seat, getting the best out of the squad they have. 

When lamps had the team constantly crossing in to Werner and pulisic, that wasn’t the way to play. When tickle has the centre backs passing it 300 times per match between themselves, that also isn’t the way to play.
 

 

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by nonotnowjim

19 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I dream about Chelsea putting 9 past Southampton. The same team we struggled to draw against, and only managed a point thanks to a pen.

I dream about Chelsea playing against a banana skin side with an extra man for 89 minutes to be honest.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Who is "we" ? I never discussed that with you back then   

We as a club 

15 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

I dream about Chelsea playing against a banana skin side with an extra man for 89 minutes to be honest.

And they've still only scored 13 more goals than us, not that much of a difference. 

2nd game in a row in the league where we are chasing a winner and we finish the game without a genuine Centre forward, I don't understand having 2 LB's on the bench and not someone like Tammy Abraham. I understand Abraham may not be Tuchel's cup of tea but come on he should be on the bench over Emerson, I get the feeling Tuchel has different standards for the academy youth in comparison to the senior members of the squad.

Not sure if it is him or if it's a message from the board to get him to integrate the senior members into match day squads to make them more visible to the market but I was against what he did with CHO and now Tammy doesn't make the bench and Billy seems out of the picture too.

All the Sarri revisionism is making me sleepy, much like Sarriball itself. Next people will be telling us Sarri was actually a witty, urbane charmer with a very stylish dress sense.

I do wonder if Roman would ever bring him back? Just for the sheer f**koffedness of it?

If he did maybe, more than a few of us would go off and actually do what we are being accused of doing, but not doing, bugger off and follow Frank Lampard FC?

Myself I would probably take up train-spotting. More excitement.

Edited March 1, 20215 yr by just

4 minutes ago, just said:

All the Sarri revisionism is making me sleepy, much like Sarriball itself. Next people will be telling us Sarri was actually a witty, urbane charmer with a very stylish dress sense.

I do wonder if Roman would ever bring him back? Just for the sheer f**koffedness of it?

If he did maybe, more than a few of us would go off and actually do what we are being accused of doing, but not doing, bugger off and follow Frank Lampard FC?

Myself I would probably take up train-spotting. More excitement.

I’ll see you at the end of Clapham Junction, platform 1 😂

Werner is a CF or as close to as one as we're going to get aside from Oli and Tammy in the squad.  

7 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

2nd game in a row in the league where we are chasing a winner and we finish the game without a genuine Centre forward,

I think what Tommy sees is what Frank may have already realised, our squad just isn't as good in practice as it is on paper.

I think it was with good intentions that we seized the market last summer and I was exciting but sadly all we did was acquire "good"players without a proper plan or structure for them.

People can say Frank was personally involved in getting the players to come and he wanted to play 4231 with Rice or 433 with two Ams in the box to box roles.

I'm not fully convinced he specifically wanted these players. I think he wanted World class players with certain attributes a good finisher, playmaker etc and the board identified targets.However, our buying of players in the last 5 years has been so random.

Liverpool and City are where they are at now because they had a vision of what they wanted and went out and got the players needed. Because we bounce from manager to manager, system to system we just end up with squads that just lack real cohesion.

It's why I refuse to write Tommy Tuchel off for this approach he has taken. I shout at my TV during match days for better football but in reality this probably the best we can do right now.

We are better at defending than attacking so I guess we focus on what we're good at and hope it takes us across the line and then in the summer the board really need to ask themselves what the plan is because for so long we haven't had a proper one.

5 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Werner is a CF or as close to as one as we're going to get aside from Oli and Tammy in the squad.  

I think what Tommy sees is what Frank may have already realised, our squad just isn't as good in practice as it is on paper.

I think it was with good intentions that we seized the market last summer and I was exciting but sadly all we did was acquire "good"players without a proper plan or structure for them.

People can say Frank was personally involved in getting the players to come and he wanted to play 4231 with Rice or 433 with two Ams in the box to box roles.

I'm not fully convinced he specifically wanted these players. I think he wanted World class players with certain attributes a good finisher, playmaker etc and the board identified targets.However, our buying of players in the last 5 years has been so random.

Liverpool and City are where they are at now because they had a vision of what they wanted and went out and got the players needed. Because we bounce from manager to manager, system to system we just end up with squads that just lack real cohesion.

It's why I refuse to write Tommy Tuchel off for this approach he has taken. I shout at my TV during match days for better football but in reality this probably the best we can do right now.

We are better at defending than attacking so I guess we focus on what we're good at and hope it takes us across the line and then in the summer the board really need to ask themselves what the plan is because for so long we haven't had a proper one.

When we sign player, manager is always asked about their opinion. I refuse to believe that Lamp did not want werner,ziyech or haverz. He tried to play all of them as often as he can.

2 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

When we sign player, manager is always asked about their opinion. I refuse to believe that Lamp did not want werner,ziyech or haverz. He tried to play all of them as often as he can.

We don't really know how the club is run, that's likely the case though. But who knows if they're Lampards targets or not. 

I did think Werner and Ziyech we're not our style of players for possession based football. Both players looked very direct to me, Ziyech loves to release the ball on the counter and get into space, Werner loves running onto the ball. Havertz looked ideal though, like the type of player Lampard was crying out for last season, someone running into the box and scoring goals.

30 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

2nd game in a row in the league where we are chasing a winner and we finish the game without a genuine Centre forward, I don't understand having 2 LB's on the bench and not someone like Tammy Abraham. I understand Abraham may not be Tuchel's cup of tea but come on he should be on the bench over Emerson, I get the feeling Tuchel has different standards for the academy youth in comparison to the senior members of the squad.

Not sure if it is him or if it's a message from the board to get him to integrate the senior members into match day squads to make them more visible to the market but I was against what he did with CHO and now Tammy doesn't make the bench and Billy seems out of the picture too.

I believe Abraham was injured, so I got told on the matchday thread anyway. 

11 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

It's why I refuse to write Tommy Tuchel off for this approach he has taken. I shout at my TV during match days for better football but in reality this probably the best we can do right now.

We are better at defending than attacking so I guess we focus on what we're good at and hope it takes us across the line and then in the summer the board really need to ask themselves what the plan is because for so long we haven't had a proper one.

Agree with this.

The likes of Pulisic, Havertz, Werner and Ziyech have looked like they belong at Sheffield United for almost the entire season. Regardless of who's the manager. Throw Tammy Abraham in there as well because he's not been any better really.

So it looks fancy on paper but when it comes down too it they've all been sh*te. Lampard couldn't get a tune out of them, Tuchel can't get a tune out of them. At some point you have to stop looking at the conductor and realize the instruments are the issue.