3 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Which is exactly why we have to try something new. Clearly our model of hiring and firing managers stopped working in the league

Or we didn’t hire the correct manager or spend enough/properly

15 minutes ago, just said:

Scaled for the squad, the owners, the money power we have, the manager and then let's not forget the current injury list.

@Deanmade the point earlier this week that we will probably never compete on a level playing field with the petro-chem country backed clubs. I agree. City for example could, if they really wanted to, spend half a billion to buy a player and not bat an eyelid.

So our recent history of winning trophies is not guaranteed and success in football, as we know from past experience, is often cyclical. If we were in a two or three horse league like Germany or France different story. But not in the EPL. The richest, most competitive league in the world.

 

I went on a bit of a rant out of nowhere about the petrodollar thing and kind of off-topic (apologies to all) on the match thread. When we look at us under Roman, Man City, and Newcastle…. I mean there’s a line of acceptability somewhere, right? So the question is where does one draw that line?

Obviously I’m biased so I’m going to say Roman buying us didn’t cross the line. But if I were a neutral….no further comment.

In my view, Man City being owned by the UAE crosses that line. Not only can they spend half a billion on a player, but they can effectively buy their way out of any trouble regarding financial fair play etc thanks to the corruption in the governing bodies (UEFA in this case).

Saudis buying Newcastle - absolutely no doubt in my mind. This is not cool. It’s a massive wake up call. To anyone who thinks this doesn’t cross the line, I have to ask - what would?
 

Tying this all together and also this fkin World Cup that was effectively bought by yet another resource-rich state and has to be held (WTAF??) in fkin November…

Let’s just say something is rotten in the state of Denmark..massive overhaul is needed. 

13 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I don't think people are 'accepting mediocrity'. The reality is that it isn't 2005 to 2012 anymore where us and united were the only teams competing for the title. Other clubs have come along and because of poor decisions we've made in the last decade, we've fallen behind. We are trying to build something to make us a title challenger again and that might take a while. Expecting CL and PL titles every season with our club's current state is naive. 

I mean to be fair we’re on track to not even make the champions league? Where exactly is the line drawn? How far do we plunge? Given the money spent not making champions league is criminal. I know potter wasn’t in charge for the spending but the football he has us playing is awful and he can’t get a tune out of any of the players including one he coached last season. The performances are some of the worse we’ve had in recent years and worse than Tuchel’s worst spells.

On 07/09/2022 at 13:27, timetowaste said:

Good job he isn't around anymore then.

He would've gotten Pochettino

17 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

Champions league winner but for penalties and var could have had three domestic trophies. I'll stop there because put all of that to one side and remember what Tuchel did as a fighurehead for the club no manager has ever been put in an almost impossible situation where he's not talking about tactics but geopolitics where the media and the poxy government are revelling in our almost demise Tuchel was f**king magnificent no bland answers or like Eddie Howe refusal too talk about anything but 4-4-2 etc.

Potter isn't good enough he's so out out of his depth he's probably got the bends and I'm so ambivalent to him that if he gets sacked come February then so be it. We're all Chelsea here doesn't matter if you go home and away never been to a football match in your life these are the Chelsea who should be celebrated doesn't matter how crap we are the 600 at Boro proper Chelsea who always KTBFGH.

 

 

I agree it was a terrible decision to get rid of Tuchel in, what, week 3?4?. I was a big fan and I was very optimistic… until Ukraine kicked off and Roman was gone. Some cracks had started to appear perhaps independently of that (personality issues maybe? Is he an impact manager that can get a lot out of teams in the short term but not over the long haul? Are ALL managers like that now because of the pressures of the modern game? Klopp?)

regardless, i was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and it was idiotic to sack him when they did.
 

But I do think something bigger is afoot . I’m not sure Tuchel would have worked in the current set-up and I’m not sure there is another manager out there who would. 

Seems many forget that the Chelsea FC before Roman had won one single top flight league title in near 100 years of existence, almost went under until Bates saved us and established us as a PL club that challenged for a European place and won some trophies.

Roman's investment was unmatched at and time and was used wisely for his first 10 or so years of ownership and made us one of the best around. His ownership led for us being one of the world's top clubs, before that we were not.

We are not Roman's Chelsea any more. We are not a passion project for someone who loves football, a super fan. No we are no longer fans at all even, we are consumers Clearlake and Co.

What mattered most to Roman was making us a top club and winning top trophies and he did that at a cost of over 2bill personal loss. Despite what Todd says the majority of our new owners top, top priority is making money. If that means we win some trophies, some titles, great. It is not the priority though.

Roman's Chelsea were one of the best clubs in the world. This is not Roman's Chelsea anymore. I don't see how some cannot wrap their heads around this.

We have been sh*t since last season. We put in performances in the CL sure, but we've been quite poor since that CL win tbh. Pre-season was poor, arsenal smashed us. We then got smashed by Leeds, beat by Southampton. The players are the biggest problem here. We have too much deadwood hanging around. Don't expect Potter to work miracles with this squad any time soon. Kante, for e.g, covered up flaws in this team for sure. Without Kante we saw how poor we were in midfield, but it was never addressed. We know who the culprits are in the squad and we need to sort it out. Aging midfield, crap attack and no creativity. 

16 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

I mean to be fair we’re on track to not even make the champions league? Where exactly is the line drawn? How far do we plunge? Given the money spent not making champions league is criminal. I know potter wasn’t in charge for the spending but the football he has us playing is awful and he can’t get a tune out of any of the players including one he coached last season. The performances are some of the worse we’ve had in recent years and worse than Tuchel’s worst spells.

We will be midtable at best and I think there’s a good chance these owners are going to go bust. 

1 minute ago, Dean said:

We will be midtable at best and I think there’s a good chance these owners are going to go bust. 

If they go bust and can let a Saudi or Dubai owner comes in I am all for it

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Seems many forget that the Chelsea FC before Roman had won one single top flight league title in near 100 years of existence, almost went under until Bates saved us and established us as a PL club that challenged for a European place and won some trophies.

Roman's investment was unmatched at and time and was used wisely for his first 10 or so years of ownership and made us one of the best around. His ownership led for us being one of the world's top clubs, before that we were not.

We are not Roman's Chelsea any more. We are not a passion project for someone who loves football, a super fan. No we are no longer fans at all even, we are consumers Clearlake and Co.

What mattered most to Roman was making us a top club and winning top trophies and he did that at a cost of over 2bill personal loss. Despite what Todd says the majority of our new owners top, top priority is making money. If that means we win some trophies, some titles, great. It is not the priority though.

Roman's Chelsea were one of the best clubs in the world. This is not Roman's Chelsea anymore. I don't see how some cannot wrap their heads around this.

If they perform just like the Glazers or FSG then I will be the first person to go and protest 

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Seems many forget that the Chelsea FC before Roman had won one single top flight league title in near 100 years of existence, almost went under until Bates saved us and established us as a PL club that challenged for a European place and won some trophies.

Roman's investment was unmatched at and time and was used wisely for his first 10 or so years of ownership and made us one of the best around. His ownership led for us being one of the world's top clubs, before that we were not.

We are not Roman's Chelsea any more. We are not a passion project for someone who loves football, a super fan. No we are no longer fans at all even, we are consumers Clearlake and Co.

What mattered most to Roman was making us a top club and winning top trophies and he did that at a cost of over 2bill personal loss. Despite what Todd says the majority of our new owners top, top priority is making money. If that means we win some trophies, some titles, great. It is not the priority though.

Roman's Chelsea were one of the best clubs in the world. This is not Roman's Chelsea anymore. I don't see how some cannot wrap their heads around this.

Hello Axman! I agree with a lot of this, and the problem with their model (maybe a blessing for us eventually but it will get much worse first) is they don’t have a hope in hell of making money.. this is textbook malinvestment. They look and sound like people who got lucky in a boom. Their assumptions (in a nutshell too much read-across from American sports) are all wrong. They will therefore end up selling at a loss. Maybe soon. I do think you are looking at Roman through somewhat rose-tinted glasses but I guess I’ll let it pass on the grounds that nobody/nothing is perfect :). 

9 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

If they go bust and can let a Saudi or Dubai owner comes in I am all for it

I’m not. Out of curiosity, is there somewhere you would draw a line? 

14 minutes ago, enigma said:

We have been sh*t since last season. We put in performances in the CL sure, but we've been quite poor since that CL win tbh. Pre-season was poor, arsenal smashed us. We then got smashed by Leeds, beat by Southampton. The players are the biggest problem here. We have too much deadwood hanging around. Don't expect Potter to work miracles with this squad any time soon. Kante, for e.g, covered up flaws in this team for sure. Without Kante we saw how poor we were in midfield, but it was never addressed. We know who the culprits are in the squad and we need to sort it out. Aging midfield, crap attack and no creativity. 

Roxit was the key factor. 

1 minute ago, Dean said:

I’m not. Out of curiosity, is there somewhere you would draw a line? 

I don’t really care how the owner is as long as they are trying their 120% to win trophies 

2 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Both Arsenal and Newcastle are reaping the rewards of being patient with Arteta and Howe after both had horrid starts. 
 

Yeah but in our defence they are only playing league games, whilst we are fighting in Europe, 

Just now, cfcforeverfan said:

I don’t really care how the owner is as long as they are trying their 120% to win trophies 

So purely hypothetically if nazi Germany were to buy Chelsea you’d be ok with that?

7 minutes ago, Dean said:

Hello Axman! I agree with a lot of this, and the problem with their model (maybe a blessing for us eventually but it will get much worse first) is they don’t have a hope in hell of making money.. this is textbook malinvestment. They look and sound like people who got lucky in a boom. Their assumptions (in a nutshell too much read-across from American sports) are all wrong. They will therefore end up selling at a loss. Maybe soon. I do think you are looking at Roman through somewhat rose-tinted glasses but I guess I’ll let it pass on the grounds that nobody/nothing is perfect :). 

They cannot sell for another 9 and a bit years as per their agreement to buy. Imo they are counting on the PL bubble continuing to expand and selling us at a profit.

Supposedly Liverpool are worth 5bill. Historically a lot of trophies but since FSG bought them? Not so much.

2 minutes ago, Dean said:

So purely hypothetically if nazi Germany were to buy Chelsea you’d be ok with that?

Do we really have to go so extreme and put nazi Germany into the equation here? 
 

and tbh given how poor nazi Germany manage their country’s economy I don’t think they would run Chelsea really well in the long run anyway lol

10 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

They cannot sell for another 9 and a bit years as per their agreement to buy. Imo they are counting on the PL bubble continuing to expand and selling us at a profit.

Supposedly Liverpool are worth 5bill. Historically a lot of trophies but since FSG bought them? Not so much.

Klopp did turn them back into a top 4 regular though, which would have increased their revenue a lot. 

 

Which is why I'm surprised people think Boehly would be content with us becoming a Europa League side. The financial impact would be very damaging, we don't have a gigantic worldwide fanbase to bankroll us like United do.

5 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

Do we really have to go so extreme and put nazi Germany into the equation here? 
 

and tbh given how poor nazi Germany manage their country’s economy I don’t think they would run Chelsea really well in the long run anyway lol

The extreme is just for framing. You said you don’t care who the owner is as long as the team wins. You’d be ok with the Saudi state owning Chelsea. A brutal regime that engages in flogging (1000 lashes for terrible crimes such as setting up a website), beheadings, death sentences for abandoning one’s religion. You wouldn’t be ok with nazi Germany. How about Putin’s Russia - the actual state let’s say before Ukraine, but after all the other stuff (Litvinenko, Chechnya, Syria, Ukraine 2014) ? Saddam’s Iraq in a counterfactual where the west had let bygones be bygones after Kuwait and Saddam was accepted? Would you mind those?

If the Saudis were to buy Chelsea and Chelsea were to win trophies, would the knowledge of those goings-on not taint those victories? 

3 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Chelsea boss Graham Potter, speaking to BBC Match of the Day: "It was a tough game for us. Losing Ruben and Aspi at half-time. You can see in the two teams the different schedules. Newcastle have one game a week and we have a tough schedule. That showed. But there were also too many enforced errors. We got through a few times but we didn't have enough quality.

"In a game of few chances, they got a winner. We changed things but we didn't have enough. You could see in the first half they were pushing us back. We could not get out of the defensive third as much as we like. So we put on an extra man in the middle of the pitch. Conor had a good shot but then our defensive line was a bit off and we conceded a good finish.

"For different reasons, you have 13 matches in six weeks, a lot of those games away from home. It is what it is and it has been tough challenging. We have a break now and we need to re-energise. For us in terms of what we've had with an incredibly intense period, it is what it is. We need to take the positives. A lot of the boys will be away but we can get away, regroup and go again when we come back."

 bloody hell

 

29 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

They cannot sell for another 9 and a bit years as per their agreement to buy. Imo they are counting on the PL bubble continuing to expand and selling us at a profit.

Supposedly Liverpool are worth 5bill. Historically a lot of trophies but since FSG bought them? Not so much.

FSG did a really good job and crucially they didn’t overpay. Trophy-wise it had to be considered a success, they played some amazing football etc. my Liverpool-supporting in-laws were thrilled…and  insufferable.
 

Easier to add value when you buy at 300 mill than 3 bill. that 10x valuation increase is well ahead of reasonable proxies such as GDP growth. suggests something isn’t right. to expect a repeat performance the assumptions have to be really wild. FSG know this and that’s why they’re selling. Boehly bought the peak and the PL bubble may well burst just like many of the other ones that are now bursting. Just my reads of course . Could very well be wrong.

58 minutes ago, enigma said:

We have been sh*t since last season. We put in performances in the CL sure, but we've been quite poor since that CL win tbh. Pre-season was poor, arsenal smashed us. We then got smashed by Leeds, beat by Southampton. The players are the biggest problem here. We have too much deadwood hanging around. Don't expect Potter to work miracles with this squad any time soon. Kante, for e.g, covered up flaws in this team for sure. Without Kante we saw how poor we were in midfield, but it was never addressed. We know who the culprits are in the squad and we need to sort it out. Aging midfield, crap attack and no creativity. 

Agreed. There were some brief signs of encouragement when Potter took over, but we have quickly regressed to our early seaosn form. Injuries have been a big factor too. Both this season and last. Our squad is not a patch on what it was 5-10 years ago in terms of quality, so to lose some of our best players (Reece, Chilwell, Kante, Fofana) has hit us particularly hard. Losing Reece and Chilwell last season had a major impact on our form too. 

Above all we have to strengthen our midfield. As great as Kante is he is injured too often these days and cannot be relied on. we will almost certainly need to replace him in the next year. Jorginho too. 

 

I told you all Tuchel is a brilliant coach, but an awful sporting director. So what does Boehly do? Make him the sporting director in the summer, then fire has as the coach.

What he should have done is learn the basics of football, hire a sporting director and preach patience to himself and Tuchel: Listen. We love you. Great job, but we can´t rush into any transfers without somebody in charge of the club. Work with what you got. We bring in Gallagher and Broja for depth. We identify our new sporting director and we have a two months break in the winter to make the necessary moves.

The biggest mistake though that nobody talks about was letting Timo Werner go. He made Havertz and Mount click. Guy was tearing apart opposing defenses with his disruptive runs and setting up the other attacking players. But that goes back to Tuchel quickly realizing that Werner/Havertz/Mount is his best available set-up, but not realizing that adding Lukaku as a potential replacement or selling Werner for Aubameyang would make the team much worse. To be fair many fans didn´t either. Who might have? A POWERFUL SPORTING DIRECTOR.