9 hours ago, cfcforeverfan said:

If they go bust and can let a Saudi or Dubai owner comes in I am all for it

Crikey, don't get caught borrowing someone else's ticket to get in,  they'll probably chop your hand off.

I agree that football is for entertainment and not for political and moralistic grandstanding, but there must be limits. Fit and Proper shouldn't just be about having the money behind you, surely.

9 hours ago, Dean said:

So purely hypothetically if nazi Germany were to buy Chelsea you’d be ok with that?

If they did at least their offensive line would turn to sh*t.

 

Apologies, I'll get me coat.

10 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Tuchel?

I'm certain we'd look just as bad with tuchel right now. And we'd have a manager who is incapable of working with the heirarchy. 

Every chelsea fan wanted to keep tuchel until at least now. But he wasn't the right man for Boehly. 

I've heard since, Bielsa, who is just an old version of Potters supposed weaknesses (never managed a big club) and Benitez. But no other names have come up. 

For me I'd keep Potter come what may for two or even three years. For the entire purpose that I think it's our best chance of getting back to the top table by then, if we are floating around 6th for those seasons, fine. But changing manager at best gets us into the CL. Nothing better. I'd rather be sh*t for two in the hope we grow into a great side, than somewhat decent and never great. 

5 hours ago, Dean said:

Was it @cocowho likened us in some thread or other to the UK government? I might be imagining things. Anyway, I guess this is a bit like how the May government seemed like a golden age during the Johnson years. Or Suella Braverman comes in as Home Secretary and there’s suddenly some nostalgia for the level-headed stewardship of Priti Patel. 

I think some are expecting us to have a Liz Truss at the helm. With the payoff required and the loss of face I am not so sure. I think GP stays until he gets it right or it because completely untenable due to finances.  At that point TB can still cite the "process" but with a replacement leader. I don't see a change any time soon.

5 hours ago, Deino said:

 

I have never seen a Chelsea team this disjointed, misguided, unmotivated and the loss of belief is slowly spreading. 

By the end of this horrible World Cup, if Potter still hasn't figured out what to bring to the table by the first few games, he needs the sack

This is right. The players are lost and depressed. You can see in their faces that they know they cant win and won't. Their manager isn't letting them. Potter is way, way out of his depth. He is managing expectations not a football team qnd we'll find ourselves way out of contention for anything  this season, possibly relegated next. I saw this coming when Boehly came in. The best he can do now is grovel to Tuchel, beg him to come back, and we can all pretend this bad dream never happened - like Liz Truss. 

9 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Crikey, don't get caught borrowing someone else's ticket to get in,  they'll probably chop your hand off.

I agree that football is for entertainment and not for political and moralistic grandstanding, but there must be limits. Fit and Proper shouldn't just be about having the money behind you, surely.

If our owners are the Pope from Vatican City then I may agree with your statement, but our owners are Americans who....err started most of the wars in recent history? So I wont have the audacity to school other teams about how 'bad' their owners are tbh....

2 hours ago, reparto corse said:

You are in for a nasty surprise thinking the US and the UK are liberal democracies. This is not the place to discuss this so I will just stop but I find your opinions incredibly naive. It's like the last couple of years didn't happen for you?

There are flaws for sure and I do have concerns about the UK and the US. but they’re not the same. I don’t think we’re about to turn into Saudi Arabia.

I don’t think our government will be, or should be, allowed to go and buy sports clubs. I gave you a fairly nuanced response and you’ve resorted to blanket statements that you haven’t backed up with any facts and a childish ad hominem, calling me naive. I’m not badly informed about stuff, have been quite clued in to the developments of the last couple of years. Show some respect.

Edited November 13, 20223 yr by Dean

50 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Spot on Dean, but I fear we all climbed into the hand basket some time ago. The conclusion appears to be inevitable. 

The laughable thing is that it's not even about football any more. The product is woeful and becoming more plastic each year. Your comment about City's spending power is a good example. How long did it take in prize money to warrant the quarter of a billion Guardiola spent on a new defence after bombing off Joe Hart replacing him with someone worse and installing a rapist (allegedly) at left back.

It's nothing to do with football any more.

💯. I actually said in that other rant that we all made a Faustian pact.

I have commented elsewhere but will add it here as well.

I am not sure it is even about the managers, the owners, the players, formations etc, although I think all contribute to some degree.

I have never been a fan of possession football or to be exact a one dimensional approach that it is only about possession. People will cite Guardiola as the exception that proves the case. But at Barcelona and Bayern he was arguably at clubs head and shoulders above their competitors and at City he has had a limitless amount of cash to be able to constantly evolve. Don't get me wrong he is a fantastic coach and makes his style work.

But for the rest of us mortals i firmly believe that possession based football breeds laziness and unfitness. Possession football substitutes effort, tempo, fitness and energy for control, touch, vision and passing. In order for it to work you must have the latter traits. Even with these traits City still maintain tempo, aggression and energy. Compare Mahrez to Ziyech. Two wide mercurial talents with wands of left feet. Yet there is no real comparison. We do not have players with a good enough level of technical ability to maintain a multi dimensional possession based approach. As a result we have a group of unfit players incapable and disinclined to achieve the first set of traits, those of running off the ball, energy, tempo and willingness to do the hard yards. It's not their fault. They are possession based players, that in leagues where there is time and space look world beaters. In a pressing league they get found out and cannot adapt.

Can Potter get us to the position of being an energetic quick passing side? The evidence so far w8th this group doesn't look good.

But do we all have the same mindset as well? What would our reaction be if in the next window instead of signing Skriniar and Gvardiol he signed Dunk and Coady, for example because they were a fit for his process. I think many on here would be howling at the first cock up. 

 

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

I'm certain we'd look just as bad with tuchel right now. And we'd have a manager who is incapable of working with the heirarchy. 

Every chelsea fan wanted to keep tuchel until at least now. But he wasn't the right man for Boehly. 

 

Impossible to say though if we'd look as lost as we do now. Tuchel got fired the second he got "his" squad finally assembled by Todd. And was he really incapable of working with hierarchies? His time alongside Marina and Petr give me a different impression.

"But he wasn't the right man for Boehly." That's the thing though: Boehly as a non-football related CEO should have never put a foot into daily football matters. Then Tuchel would have had a competent guy to report to / work together with -> they don't come along together at all? Fair paly to sack the manager, although the timing should be considered as well. But as it stands I can't imagine it being fun nor yielding positive results working out football related matters - like building an elite squad - with Todd while at the same time being under great pressure to deliver results on and off the pitch. I don't see any way to spin this into something that doesn't look foolish.

 

 

Edited November 13, 20223 yr by weetee

1 hour ago, Myheartisblue said:

This is right. The players are lost and depressed. You can see in their faces that they know they cant win and won't. Their manager isn't letting them. Potter is way, way out of his depth. He is managing expectations not a football team qnd we'll find ourselves way out of contention for anything  this season, possibly relegated next. I saw this coming when Boehly came in. The best he can do now is grovel to Tuchel, beg him to come back, and we can all pretend this bad dream never happened - like Liz Truss. 

There is a reason why Abramovich gave Tuchel an initial contract of 18mths. Prove yourself. Even Conte a proven coach was given a 2 year  contract. Giving Potter a coach whose never won anything and with a 35% or so rate of game wins was madness by Boehly!  

11 minutes ago, Edjmendy said:

There is a reason why Abramovich gave Tuchel an initial contract of 18mths. Prove yourself. Even Conte a proven coach was given a 2 year  contract. Giving Potter a coach whose never won anything and with a 35% or so rate of game wins was madness by Boehly!  

He had no choice. Tuchel had been sacked and the person he wanted demanded that rate. Where was he to go. Now me and you would have said f**k that and swallowed our pride and gone for poch or someone else but.....

People can point fingers at the new signings, but I would rather point fingers at the players who have been here longer and ask why they are not performing.

We spent so much money on Pulisic, Ziyech and Havertz, yet they have done f**k all. Havertz still living in a CL goal like Torres ffs. 

As much as I don't like Arteta, he and Howe, so far at least have to be contenders for Managers of the Year.  Arteta to his credit stuck with his belief and endure abuse etc from fans and media alike, now he is being rewarded but it has been painful.  Howe has always had a belief in his style of play and stuck with it having success with Bournemouth, his only failing was that the club simply didn't have the money to refresh every so often.  Now with Newcastle, despite having a sticky start, bang average players are reaping the rewards of hard work on the training ground and belief in the manager.   

While Arteta and Howe walked into clubs that at the time were stinking the place out, the only way for both was up, whereas Potter has walked into a club where winning for the last 20 years has become the norm and expected...the only way Potter was going to succeed was to carryon that winning mentality, with the expectation of winning a piece of silverware and at the very least qualify for the CL, other than that Potter, in the eyes of the fans and media at least would simply be considered a failure.  Unfortunately for him, based on what we have seen so far he's heading in the wrong direction and for certain failure.  Injuries aside, if we are to be considered a 'big' club we should still be competing, but we are failing miserably, certainly on the domestic front at least.    Of course, by all accounts we are, according to the owners rebuilding for the future, so no doubt they have factored in that there will be no trophies, and no Europe for the next 2 or 3 seasons.  So if that is the case then perhaps the message to the fans and the media should be loud and clear, that we will have to lower our expectations to mid to lower table mediocrity for a while at least....so best of luck Todd and co if you think you'll be able to attract the worlds best young talent who only have the desire to win silverware while looking at a club in a downward spiral.  Lets all hope then that we have great sales and marketing team that can convince the sponsors and the 18-20 year olds to keep coming on board so that they mature in 2024/25.  

We need a clear out, that much is obvious, for too long this club has held onto players who are old and lack the energy to compete in a league that is faster, stronger and more energetic than others around the world; Koulibaly is certainly finding that out much to his detriment.  This now is a game for the 20 year olds, not the 30 year olds, with one or two exceptions aside.  Todd and GP need to clear out a majority of the squad, some perhaps in January and a majority immediately after the season ends.   Then let's see what Potter is really all about....does he have the belief like Arteta and Howe and will he be given time if the results don't improve, I guess we will wait and see.   For now at least, on reflection and based on what we've seen so far, as fans we will have to endure mid-table clashes with the likes of Leeds, Brighton, Villa etc for a season or two. 

2 hours ago, cfcforeverfan said:

I dont understand why having expectations is like a sin to some of you guys. How far should our standard drop before we say it is not acceptable and ask for some change?

Just like those United fans that invaded Old Trafford, I fail to see them anything other than die hard fans that would run through a brick wall and die on the pitch for their team, but that doesnt mean they can accept the team getting worse every season. 

As a fan you support the team through highs and lows, but that doesnt mean we have to sit there pretending everything is going to be fine and rosy despite everything is telling us the other way

Nobody is pretending everything is going to be fine, have you even bothered to read what people have written here? Shesh.

You yourself wrote you're not going to accept mediocrity, which in case you hadn't noticed is what all clubs go through. That is hardly supporting through highs and lows. And exactly how will you not accept this by the way, will you march to Cobham and tell everybody how to improve and win the silverware that you can't live without? Share your constructive suggestions with us.

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Dean you should blog. Agree with this as well

Very kind of you to say Whitewall. I’m not sure it would be interesting enough and if it is - whether I have the time :). 

12 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Nobody is pretending everything is going to be fine, have you even bothered to read what people have written here? Shesh.

You yourself wrote you're not going to accept mediocrity, which in case you hadn't noticed is what all clubs go through. That is hardly supporting through highs and lows. And exactly how will you not accept this by the way, will you march to Cobham and tell everybody how to improve and win the silverware that you can't live without? Share your constructive suggestions with us.

there is a difference between acknowledging mediocrity and accepting it. 

I acknowledge that the team is bad and may need some time to recover from it, but I wont accept the 'it is what it is' 'RA is gone, accept we wont challenge for the title again' mentality

I accept the fact the team is not in a good shape, but I will not satisfy with the current state and would want it to improve. 

9 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

there is a difference between acknowledging mediocrity and accepting it. 

I acknowledge that the team is bad and may need some time to recover from it, but I wont accept the 'it is what it is' 'RA is gone, accept we wont challenge for the title again' mentality

I accept the fact the team is not in a good shape, but I will not satisfy with the current state and would want it to improve. 

But what’s your next step after non-acceptance? What if mediocrity is now simply the reality - or worse, the best-case scenario? I’m not saying it is but it’s a very real possibility. After all, we’ve been there before. Does it not occur to you that MAYBE the Roman years were the anomaly rather than the norm? That we don’t have an entitlement to riches and trophies? That the money that was there might not be there any longer? I’m not making predictions here. It’s not about acceptance or not either. I’m just spelling out possibilities. And those don’t stop at mediocrity. Things COULD get a lot lot worse than us being mid-table. Look at the erstwhile trophy-winning sides that fell from grace and ended up languishing in lower divisions for years: Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Blackburn, and many more. What would you do then?

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

All thanks to the man who believes he is fit to run a football club, who also believe Salah and KdB came out of the Chelsea academy.

What happened to that @SwedishEntitywas it who signed up when Potter took over?

I'm here.

I see you guys got a good pit of panicking going. Not quite sure exactly what you thought this last month to look like, considering the circumstances.

I think the latest set of teams shows the value of long-term thinking. Took years for Arteta and Eddie Howe pretty much didn't win any of the 8 or 9 first games in Newcastle (until they had a decent transfer window).

If you want long term success you have to be patient. Chelseas success depends on whether Boehly allow Chelsea fans to run the club or not. Obviously the club is doomed if he listens to your opinions, as in any football club.

7 minutes ago, Dean said:

But what’s your next step after non-acceptance? What if mediocrity is now simply the reality - or worse, the best-case scenario? I’m not saying it is but it’s a very real possibility. After all, we’ve been there before. Does it not occur to you that MAYBE the Roman years were the anomaly rather than the norm? That we don’t have an entitlement to riches and trophies? That the money that was there might not be there any longer? I’m not making predictions here. It’s not about acceptance or not either. I’m just spelling out possibilities. And those don’t stop at mediocrity. Things COULD get a lot lot worse than us being mid-table. Look at the erstwhile trophy-winning sides that fell from grace and ended up languishing in lower divisions for years: Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Blackburn, and many more. What would you do then?

It's a valid point. The recent decline of Arsenal and Man Utd have been mentioned on here. Perhaps the scouse are on a downturn, yippee. What all of these clubs have is a history of regency. They are English football blue bloods. Us and frankly Man City aren't. It's unfortunate but true. Those of us that pre date the PL years would readily acknowledge this. Man City can continue to draw upon untold riches and ballsy behind the scenes shenanigans to bluster their way through FFP so will be able to buy their way out of trouble if the tide starts turning.

Do we have the continuing financial muscle and the underlying aura of historical greatness to draw upon when we're 10th. Questionable. 

Our next match is against Bournemouth 😂😂 You couldn’t make this up 😂😂

I can’t see us getting anything from that either.

34 minutes ago, cfcforeverfan said:

there is a difference between acknowledging mediocrity and accepting it. 

I acknowledge that the team is bad and may need some time to recover from it, but I wont accept the 'it is what it is' 'RA is gone, accept we wont challenge for the title again' mentality

I accept the fact the team is not in a good shape, but I will not satisfy with the current state and would want it to improve. 

We haven't challenged for the title for six years now. 

15 minutes ago, Dean said:

But what’s your next step after non-acceptance? What if mediocrity is now simply the reality - or worse, the best-case scenario? I’m not saying it is but it’s a very real possibility. After all, we’ve been there before. Does it not occur to you that MAYBE the Roman years were the anomaly rather than the norm? That we don’t have an entitlement to riches and trophies? That the money that was there might not be there any longer? I’m not making predictions here. It’s not about acceptance or not either. I’m just spelling out possibilities. And those don’t stop at mediocrity. Things COULD get a lot lot worse than us being mid-table. Look at the erstwhile trophy-winning sides that fell from grace and ended up languishing in lower divisions for years: Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Blackburn, and many more. What would you do then?

In all honestly, fans have the right to think and believe that CFC is a big club after the recent 20 years have passed. To be one of the best clubs over such a period isn't a small thing, it's really not like Blackburn or Leicester or Nottingham, we didn't lose our status over night we just need a few people with a good vision since we're still a rich club after all said and done and fans shouldn't just accept the club being mediocre or even being worse than finishing at mid table.

So do all big clubs think, you don't see Man United, AC Milan or Barcelona stop thinking that they are a big club after some failures, their fans and people involved keep insisting that they belong at the top 3% of the best clubs in the world. Why should we stop doing that after all that has been?

8 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

It's a valid point. The recent decline of Arsenal and Man Utd have been mentioned on here. Perhaps the scouse are on a downturn, yippee. What all of these clubs have is a history of regency. They are English football blue bloods. Us and frankly Man City aren't. It's unfortunate but true. Those of us that pre date the PL years would readily acknowledge this. Man City can continue to draw upon untold riches and ballsy behind the scenes shenanigans to bluster their way through FFP so will be able to buy their way out of trouble if the tide starts turning.

Do we have the continuing financial muscle and the underlying aura of historical greatness to draw upon when we're 10th. Questionable. 

Indeed Whitewall. and this is why I worry for those who talk of mid-table in the prem as some sort of worst-case scenario. 

Potter might get lucky with James out of the WC our form might turn come the restart for a bit and we might get a couple of bodies in.

The crucial thing will be the home crowd.

I think because of recent previous success they are not so tolerant as earlier generations.