46 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Oh bore off mate, you and numerous others keep taking this position all the time as a get out clause to say "well I did say he wasn't the right man" when he inevitably gets sacked. 

You're not fooling anyone, it's clear you rate him as you make up a billion excuses for him then like to clap back in the thread after he wins. Just have the balls to say it.

 I don't think anyone on here really cares if ultimately they are right or wrong..

Definitely not to the point where they would insert a " get out clause" in their comments  ?

 

 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Roman would definitely have sacked Tuchel after our poor start and loss against Zagreb this season anyway .

Todd did it for other reasons but I've no doubt he would have got the boot around the same time.

So it was a decision on who to replace him . Not looking good so far though I'll admit, I can't wait for the season to end , but still have a ridiculous hope that we are going to get thru the next CL round.

Who knows, it's Chelsea, anything can happen.

 

 

Roman didn't sack Mourinho until Christmas when we were in a relegation fight, there's no way he sacks Tuchel after 10 points from 6 games. 

 

Hopefully we can get past Madrid, under Tuchel last season, I was actually confident that we would beat them. Right now it's just blind hope that they don't turn up.

1 hour ago, The Rising Sun said:

I'm not making excuses, just pointing out the vastly different situations both managers inherited when they took over.

 

Despite a poor run we were just 4 points off top in November and started the season with 1 defeat in 12 games then Rafa took over a team that had JT, Cole, Mata, Hazard, Lamps, Cahill, Ivanovich, etcetc.

The present players are nowhere near that level , in terms of experience and togetherness .

I'm not defending the awful form we are in , but we were awful this season before Potter arrived.

I'm just as annoyed about our form as anyone, and Potter drives me insane with some of his decision making but the club are all over the place too with its decisions since the takeover 

I want better , like you, but the long contract he's got suggests he ain't going anywhere. 

And there's an open goal for you in that last sentence 😁😁😁

 

 

If the players are good then the manager doesn't matter somehow, his quality is irrelevant ("Sarri had Hazard", "Rafa had ...") but if there is this narrative that the players are somehow bad, then the manager also doesn't matter since well, the players are bad...?

Can't have it both ways, that argument only exists to put Potter under the rug as if his position doesn't matter, but the biggest hypocritical and problematic take is that once we win a match, suddenly it's okay to put it down on the manager, meaning hey we won it must be because Potter is a great manager!

Just don't tell me that the only scenario in which it's okay to bring up Potter is once we win a match cause like I try to illustrate, it's easy to just say that he also, just like the previous managers we had, has at his disposal Enzo, James, J.Felix, T.Silva and so on, meaning that he also has at least a few world class players and then a bunch of good players as well.

His situation is the following; He's staying not because of his results but because of his contract so it's despite of the results since the owners are gambling on him to become a good manager. Is there a better situation to be in? I doubt it.

14 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

If the players are good then the manager doesn't matter somehow, his quality is irrelevant ("Sarri had Hazard", "Rafa had ...") but if there is this narrative that the players are somehow bad, then the manager also doesn't matter since well, the players are bad...?

Can't have it both ways, that argument only exists to put Potter under the rug as if his position doesn't matter, but the biggest hypocritical and problematic take is that once we win a match, suddenly it's okay to put it down on the manager, meaning hey we won it must be because Potter is a great manager!

Just don't tell me that the only scenario in which it's okay to bring up Potter is once we win a match cause like I try to illustrate, it's easy to just say that he also, just like the previous managers we had, has at his disposal Enzo, James, J.Felix, T.Silva and so on, meaning that he also has at least a few world class players and then a bunch of good players as well.

His situation is the following; He's staying not because of his results but because of his contract so it's despite of the results since the owners are gambling on him to become a good manager. Is there a better situation to be in? I doubt it.

Honestly he's the luckiest manager ever, unlimited faith, unlimited spending, and even if he fails despite all that he gets a 60m pay off. Unreal 😂

10 hours ago, Victor90 said:

Oh bore off mate, you and numerous others keep taking this position all the time as a get out clause to say "well I did say he wasn't the right man" when he inevitably gets sacked. 

You're not fooling anyone, it's clear you rate him as you make up a billion excuses for him then like to clap back in the thread after he wins. Just have the balls to say it.

No - My cards have been on the table for a long time, and I have been consistent in my messages. Life isn't binary good/bad - there are always shades of grey.

For clarity:

1) As much as I love and supported Frank, we were right to sack him. Despite him getting us top 4 with the "youth", we were in a downward spiral and were not progressing in the football we played.

2) As much as I liked and supported Tuchel, we were also right to sack him. We were playing awful awful football. Stagnant, slow, and negative. Not progressive at all. He was talking about the need for 'precision' to fix it....when we needed a sledgehammer. Added to the stinky football, he was also not showing that he wanted to work in the new structure. Added to that, there was also some unsavory stuff allegedly behind the scenes.

3) As much as I am on the fence about Potter, and have concerns about his pedigree, this is clearly a long-term rebuild. There will be ups and downs along the way. There is no quick fix - and I have seen enough in flashes to continue to be positive about our long-term trajectory. He has however been underperforming and we are right to want more. He is too passive for a start.......but that doesn't change the particular circumstances in which he has come in, and muppets on here comparing him to the circs of others like the FSW, are simply moronic.

So - all the time morons on here come on and whinge and shout about  wanting "RESULTS NOW!!!" I will not "bore off' (as you so eloquently suggested). If you take off your blinkers and climb down off your high horse you will see that this is a long-term rebuild that was badly needed - so to judge conclusively (either way I should add) on the space of 6 months' work, is once again, simply moronic.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Gol15 said:

If the players are good then the manager doesn't matter somehow, his quality is irrelevant ("Sarri had Hazard", "Rafa had ...") but if there is this narrative that the players are somehow bad, then the manager also doesn't matter since well, the players are bad...?

Can't have it both ways, that argument only exists to put Potter under the rug as if his position doesn't matter, but the biggest hypocritical and problematic take is that once we win a match, suddenly it's okay to put it down on the manager, meaning hey we won it must be because Potter is a great manager!

Just don't tell me that the only scenario in which it's okay to bring up Potter is once we win a match cause like I try to illustrate, it's easy to just say that he also, just like the previous managers we had, has at his disposal Enzo, James, J.Felix, T.Silva and so on, meaning that he also has at least a few world class players and then a bunch of good players as well.

His situation is the following; He's staying not because of his results but because of his contract so it's despite of the results since the owners are gambling on him to become a good manager. Is there a better situation to be in? I doubt it.

The hole in your argument is that this isn't about single games here and there. It has to be looked at long term, with a wider body of work over a prolonged period.

Sarri's football was sh*t. Perhaps that would have changed had he stayed longer and not legged it back to Italy - but for the time he was with us, we were boring. Hazard turning up for the Europa League final doesn't change that.

Lamps could not defend. There was no balance in the team. Yes he did amazing to get top 4 with the kids - but that doesn't change the imbalance.

Tuchel had us playing some of the worst football I have ever watched at the bridge. Truly stinking the place out - over a prolonged period.  We didn't see any signs that he was trying to change that and by the end, there was a regression.

Potter coming in might fail - but he has been tasked with building a new team. Literally. The old guard like Jorgi is gone (or going) and he is building something new from scratch. Time will tell if he is a success or not - it is simply too early to tell - but there have been signs recently of progression, which is more than what we have had over the past few seasons of going backwards.

4 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

No - My cards have been on the table for a long time, and I have been consistent in my messages. Life isn't binary good/bad - there are always shades of grey.

For clarity:

1) As much as I love and supported Frank, we were right to sack him. Despite him getting us top 4 with the "youth", we were in a downward spiral and were not progressing in the football we played.

2) As much as I liked and supported Tuchel, we were also right to sack him. We were playing awful awful football. Stagnant, slow, and negative. Not progressive at all. He was talking about the need for 'precision' to fix it....when we needed a sledgehammer. Added to the stinky football, he was also not showing that he wanted to work in the new structure. Added to that, there was also some unsavory stuff allegedly behind the scenes.

3) As much as I am on the fence about Potter, and have concerns about his pedigree, this is clearly a long-term rebuild. There will be ups and downs along the way. There is no quick fix - and I have seen enough in flashes to continue to be positive about our long-term trajectory. He has however been underperforming and we are right to want more. He is too passive for a start.......but that doesn't change the particular circumstances in which he has come in, and muppets on here comparing him to the circs of others like the FSW, are simply moronic.

So - all the time morons on here come on and whinge and shout about  wanting "RESULTS NOW!!!" I will not "bore off' (as you so eloquently suggested). If you take off your blinkers and climb down off your high horse you will see that this is a long-term rebuild that was badly needed - so to judge conclusively (either way I should add) on the space of 6 months' work, is once again, simply moronic.

 

 

 

 

After the Everton game substitutions, which were just plain stupid, yes - he's got to go - now or the summer not going to make a big difference.

Four things stand out for me:

1) Inability to handle a dressing room full of star players

2) Inability to make smart tactical substitutions when required

3) Inability to get the team to work hard for 90 minutes

4) Lastly his inability to take risk - He who dares wins...

You're right we've needed to replace the Cech, JT, FL, Drogba spine of the team that made us a great side for about 10 years now...

Is Potr the guy to make it work, judged on what he's done so far no, judged on what happened in the Everton game when he lost us 3 points - not in month of Sundays!

Seriously, I cannot ever remember a Chelsea "manager" throwing away a game and 3 points like Potr did against Everton ... he's a wire twanger.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

No - My cards have been on the table for a long time, and I have been consistent in my messages. Life isn't binary good/bad - there are always shades of grey.

For clarity:

1) As much as I love and supported Frank, we were right to sack him. Despite him getting us top 4 with the "youth", we were in a downward spiral and were not progressing in the football we played.

2) As much as I liked and supported Tuchel, we were also right to sack him. We were playing awful awful football. Stagnant, slow, and negative. Not progressive at all. He was talking about the need for 'precision' to fix it....when we needed a sledgehammer. Added to the stinky football, he was also not showing that he wanted to work in the new structure. Added to that, there was also some unsavory stuff allegedly behind the scenes.

3) As much as I am on the fence about Potter, and have concerns about his pedigree, this is clearly a long-term rebuild. There will be ups and downs along the way. There is no quick fix - and I have seen enough in flashes to continue to be positive about our long-term trajectory. He has however been underperforming and we are right to want more. He is too passive for a start.......but that doesn't change the particular circumstances in which he has come in, and muppets on here comparing him to the circs of others like the FSW, are simply moronic.

So - all the time morons on here come on and whinge and shout about  wanting "RESULTS NOW!!!" I will not "bore off' (as you so eloquently suggested). If you take off your blinkers and climb down off your high horse you will see that this is a long-term rebuild that was badly needed - so to judge conclusively (either way I should add) on the space of 6 months' work, is once again, simply moronic.

 

 

 

If you have found little to like and plenty to complain about with our football over the last 5 years, then it sounds to me like you have unrealistic expectations of the entertainment quality that modern football provides, so maybe you simply need to find a different sport to follow ?

3 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

If you have found little to like and plenty to complain about with our football over the last 5 years, then it sounds to me like you have unrealistic expectations of the entertainment quality that modern football provides, so maybe you simply need to find a different sport to follow ?

That's a silly comment and an even sillier suggestion. You seem to imply that modern day football is inherently not entertaining, and when we're thrown a crumb of entertainment that's all we can expect.

We might as well all go off watching field hockey or something like that.

6 minutes ago, Valerie said:

That's a silly comment and an even sillier suggestion. You seem to imply that modern day football is inherently not entertaining, and when we're thrown a crumb of entertainment that's all we can expect.

We might as well all go off watching field hockey or something like that.

Whatever Val !

12 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Whatever Val !

How substansive 

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

so to judge conclusively (either way I should add) on the space of 6 months' work, is once again, simply moronic.

Can he be judged next season in your eyes? Or is that another freebie for Potter as he and some supporters can use the "rebuild" buzzword to hide behind? Genuine question.

Or will for example 7th be good enough next season if we finish 9th this year as that would be progress?

 

54 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Can he be judged next season in your eyes? Or is that another freebie for Potter as he and some supporters can use the "rebuild" buzzword to hide behind? Genuine question.

Or will for example 7th be good enough next season if we finish 9th this year as that would be progress?

 

The split in Chelsea fans, is those that believe Potter needs time to show he can make us a top 4 side next season and those that think he can't make us one. 

I've never seen anyone happy with an outside top 4 finish next season. 

26 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

The split in Chelsea fans, is those that believe Potter needs time to show he can make us a top 4 side next season and those that think he can't make us one. 

I've never seen anyone happy with an outside top 4 finish next season. 

There is no reasons we shouldn't be aiming for higher next season. Top 4 should be the bare minimum, not expectation. We also will have Nkunku and probably new signings as well which should elevate us. I am not saying we should be winning league, but when you see what likes of Arsenal are accomplishing after their team has gelled, we can follow suite if we get our act together.

Lahms comments on PSG pretty much describes us as well. 
 

Messi's skills are used without purpose or direction [at PSG]. The individuals simply do not know how to collectively score a goal and, generally, how to contribute... This exorbitantly expensive team resemble a luxury department store, displaying precious exhibits that everyone marvels at but no one can afford.

15 hours ago, Gol15 said:

If the players are good then the manager doesn't matter somehow, his quality is irrelevant ("Sarri had Hazard", "Rafa had ...") but if there is this narrative that the players are somehow bad, then the manager also doesn't matter since well, the players are bad...?

Can't have it both ways, that argument only exists to put Potter under the rug as if his position doesn't matter, but the biggest hypocritical and problematic take is that once we win a match, suddenly it's okay to put it down on the manager, meaning hey we won it must be because Potter is a great manager!

Just don't tell me that the only scenario in which it's okay to bring up Potter is once we win a match cause like I try to illustrate, it's easy to just say that he also, just like the previous managers we had, has at his disposal Enzo, James, J.Felix, T.Silva and so on, meaning that he also has at least a few world class players and then a bunch of good players as well.

His situation is the following; He's staying not because of his results but because of his contract so it's despite of the results since the owners are gambling on him to become a good manager. Is there a better situation to be in? I doubt it.

I don't know why if someone points out that there is a difference in the club's situation that that means I'm happy with Potter , excuse crap performances, and shower praise everywhere if we win ?

I really wish it was different, it's not working,.it might never work , but as it now seems that our pitch is responsible for everything, and we've got a tip top  groundsman in to improve it, Potter must be way down Todd's list as a culprit. 

 

Edited March 26, 20233 yr by The Rising Sun
Info

4 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

If you have found little to like and plenty to complain about with our football over the last 5 years, then it sounds to me like you have unrealistic expectations of the entertainment quality that modern football provides, so maybe you simply need to find a different sport to follow ?

Expecting to watch entertaining football is not unrealistic.

Plenty of teams are able to do it.

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

Can he be judged next season in your eyes? Or is that another freebie for Potter as he and some supporters can use the "rebuild" buzzword to hide behind? Genuine question.

Or will for example 7th be good enough next season if we finish 9th this year as that would be progress?

 

I can't see any Potter supporters.

Just fans who hope eventually the long term plan will come good

And others who believe that it is doomed to failure.

But unless Todd backtracks, this is the long game, and not the hire and fire game.

So with that in mind I get behind the team, and yes, the manager too,  because that's what supporters do, even if I'm not overjoyed.

And in all my many years as a Chelsea fan I've never booed my team, or the results, or anything else that is Chelsea.. ( not that anyone mention booing, just thought I'd throw that in )😝

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 20233 yr by The Rising Sun
Info

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

Can he be judged next season in your eyes? Or is that another freebie for Potter as he and some supporters can use the "rebuild" buzzword to hide behind? Genuine question.

Or will for example 7th be good enough next season if we finish 9th this year as that would be progress?

 

I think so - but within the parameters of what is realistic.

Next season, we are likely to have a squad of new(ish) players, who have had some time to adapt, but who really are not going to be fully "there". Players like Mudryk, Badi, Fofana, and Enzo I all expect to progress from where they have been.  We then have new players to come in (Nkunku, Gusto and whoever else we buy) who will still need to gel/acclimatize, and young players who will hopefully step up (Andrey Santos, Chukmumeka etc) - but who will also need time.

So - that's still a lot of change and transition to come....as said already, this is a long term project.

That said...the flip side is that by the start of next season, the potterer will have had almost 1 season, 2x transfer windows, and 1x pre-season. While I don't think we will be challenging next year for the league, it is enough time to demand progression in style and systems. If we are still seeing a manager that is unable to identify a progressive system and stamp an identity on the team, then I will be louder in my disdain for him.

 

1 hour ago, STATS said:

There is no reasons we shouldn't be aiming for higher next season. Top 4 should be the bare minimum, not expectation. We also will have Nkunku and probably new signings as well which should elevate us. I am not saying we should be winning league, but when you see what likes of Arsenal are accomplishing after their team has gelled, we can follow suite if we get our act together.

Nkunku who has never played in the league. NEw players who will need to be integrated. Plus all the current new signings who will all of had just around 5 months of EPL experience...

This is still equal to an inexperienced squad.

The ceiling in this climate of Premier League and all the competitions Chelsea is in with Roman's short-termism is cup here, cup there and maybe a title once in 5 years. 

The ceiling in this climate for long-term planning is higher. We could see a double, treble even with the wealth and resources we have. 

In the latter version we just have to suffer more as fans. And as we can all see here in this forum many here are not accustomed to it nor willing to try.

3 hours ago, evissy said:

The ceiling in this climate of Premier League and all the competitions Chelsea is in with Roman's short-termism is cup here, cup there and maybe a title once in 5 years. 

The ceiling in this climate for long-term planning is higher. We could see a double, treble even with the wealth and resources we have. 

In the latter version we just have to suffer more as fans. And as we can all see here in this forum many here are not accustomed to it nor willing to try.

I'm all for long-term planning when it comes to signing and investing in youth and the academy. I'm also glad we have a proper transfer team in place. But there's much better managers out there to do a long term plan with.

22 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

I'm all for long-term planning when it comes to signing and investing in youth and the academy. I'm also glad we have a proper transfer team in place. But there's much better managers out there to do a long term plan with.

Could be, could also be we have just right manager in place. What we know for certain is it is and will never be Tuchel or someone with similar track record as he does. That is not even debatable.

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Nkunku who has never played in the league. NEw players who will need to be integrated. Plus all the current new signings who will all of had just around 5 months of EPL experience...

This is still equal to an inexperienced squad.

Enzo liked like a seasoned EPL star without needing any experience. 
 

have proper scouting instead of scatter gun approach then maybe we’ll land more players who are genuinely great than players who gets found out the moment they kick the ball in a different country from where they came from. 

Edited March 26, 20233 yr by Mudders

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Nkunku who has never played in the league. NEw players who will need to be integrated. Plus all the current new signings who will all of had just around 5 months of EPL experience...

This is still equal to an inexperienced squad.

Certain players can adjust to a jump in league straight away. Nkunku I hope is one of them. He has the physical tools needed. Like I say, I am not saying I expect to be on par with Man City, but I think if our simple aim is to get top 4 then it is not ambitious really. I think a top coach could do bits with this team. There are top players in this team. 

Arsenal's squad is equal to an inexperienced squad and yes they have had more time to gel, but bar Partey and Xhaka, most of that team is players made up in their early 20s to mid 20s and they are well on course to win league.