2 hours ago, just said:

That's part of the problem Carlo. A proportion, a very, very high proportion of "fans" on here. Have not seen tough times. Ever. They have no point of reference to what we are going through now.

I was there, albeit a young whippet snapper, but will add.... we didn't really know much differently back then, the Milk and Zenith cup was about our pinnacle. Winning the 97 FA Cup was just short of winning the league in 05 in terms of glory.

While I partly agree just, we've come a long way since then and I don't really fancy going back to that level again. It was much different back then, there are now high expectations after winning so much, even for those that were there when we were sh*t!

2 hours ago, Carloseyebrow said:

I will never support the notion that it's better to see us lose if it forces a change of personnel within the management or team.

We've all seen tough times over the years, and this is surely a massive test for the club and us as supporters.

Change of owner, manager, also people like Petr Cech and Marina leaving are so de-stabilising, but it is now more than ever we need to have a bit of backbone amongst ourselves and f**king support the entire playing team and backroom staff.

I'm not suggesting that Potter is the right man, current form (a few months in fairness) suggests he is maybe in above his head. Nor am I suggesting all the players are right for our team, there are a few I've not felt are right for this league.

But we have to stick together, because unless Boehly changes his mind Potter is here for a while.

 

Agree with many things you have pointed out here and I will never stop supporting the club but Potter is sapping the energy out of everyone right now. 

I did think I wouldn't catch the game today but managed to....I wish I hadn't TBH.  I was not happy seeing that line up, especially being so light in midfield.  RLC has never impressed me; he always starts decent for 20 minutes and then disappears.  Why did he select Ziyech, a player who was out the door in January and why Koulibaly over Badiashile when the youngster has been solid since we acquired him.  We seemed to start off OK for about 20 mins albeit that the pace going forward even the wheelchair team would not have difficulty defending, no pace, no energy, no structure going forward. Then the midfield fell apart apart, players too far from each other, too many touches and made it so easy for Spurs to defend and walk through the middle of the park.   

OK screamer of a goal and those perhaps you have to accept now and then although it could have been defended better.   After the goal the heads dropped, players were sapped and bereft of ideas looking to the bench, while Potter stood there perplexed and worried....and it only went down hill from there.   Never changed anything during the game, boring subs, subs too late and WTF was PEA going to do with 10 mins left after Potter has frozen him out.

If I am one of those players that have won trophies sat in that dressing room, any faith or support I may have had is now gone.   2 wins in 16 games, with not even a glimmer of any progress is draining, mentally and physically.  I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel...only train to take Potter out of here.    I said it before and I'll keep saying it; this was a Quantum leap for Potter and the challenge / project is just too mammoth a task for him, especially when the guts, knowledge and skills for the past 20 years got wiped out in a stroke of a pen he had nowhere to turn to except his benefactor who has no clue when it comes to 'soccer'.  

Lose to Leeds and Dortumund, a couple of league games after that and we'll be in trouble because there will not be enough games to pull us out.  The only hope is that the bottom 3 end up worse off than us...  

2 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Our attacking phase was utterly woeful. Havertz marked by 3 Spurs defenders. Ziyech and Sterling hugging the touchline. 

Christ I've had enough. 

I think many will be joining you...drains the soul and energy from you doesn't it.

6 minutes ago, Jackson27 said:

Sadly This Has Become My Normal, So I Can Post Normally Which Many People Don't Understand But Then It's Vice Versa With Not Seeing Capital Letters Everywhere, I'm Simply Dumfounded By The Distinct Lack Of Capital Letters From People

Ok, well, sadly onto the ignore list you go in that case !

3 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

Agree with many things you have pointed out here and I will never stop supporting the club but Potter is sapping the energy out of everyone right now. 

I did think I wouldn't catch the game today but managed to....I wish I hadn't TBH.  I was not happy seeing that line up, especially being so light in midfield.  RLC has never impressed me; he always starts decent for 20 minutes and then disappears.  Why did he select Ziyech, a player who was out the door in January and why Koulibaly over Badiashile when the youngster has been solid since we acquired him.  We seemed to start off OK for about 20 mins albeit that the pace going forward even the wheelchair team would not have difficulty defending, no pace, no energy, no structure going forward. Then the midfield fell apart apart, players too far from each other, too many touches and made it so easy for Spurs to defend and walk through the middle of the park.   

OK screamer of a goal and those perhaps you have to accept now and then although it could have been defended better.   After the goal the heads dropped, players were sapped and bereft of ideas looking to the bench, while Potter stood there perplexed and worried....and it only went down hill from there.   Never changed anything during the game, boring subs, subs too late and WTF was PEA going to do with 10 mins left after Potter has frozen him out.

If I am one of those players that have won trophies sat in that dressing room, any faith or support I may have had is now gone.   2 wins in 16 games, with not even a glimmer of any progress is draining, mentally and physically.  I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel...only train to take Potter out of here.    I said it before and I'll keep saying it; this was a Quantum leap for Potter and the challenge / project is just too mammoth a task for him, especially when the guts, knowledge and skills for the past 20 years got wiped out in a stroke of a pen he had nowhere to turn to except his benefactor who has no clue when it comes to 'soccer'.  

Lose to Leeds and Dortumund, a couple of league games after that and we'll be in trouble because there will not be enough games to pull us out.  The only hope is that the bottom 3 end up worse off than us...  

Just don't understand Ziyech ever starting when he was a minute or two from leaving, let alone the fact he has not been good enough ever.

7 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Trophies aren't on my radar, I just want to enjoy watching Chelsea again. It just feels like we are in terminal decline. It's felt this way since Abramovich had the club taken from him.

True mate. I just want to watch good football, not much to ask really. Let's hope one day .....

 

1 minute ago, Carloseyebrow said:

Just don't understand Ziyech ever starting when he was a minute or two from leaving, let alone the fact he has not been good enough ever.

Ziyech plays like he's in a coma...wakes up once in a blue moon and scores a decent goal...consistently inconsistent.....

And now we to suffer the Manc's winning the League Cup...

6 minutes ago, Mod said:

I was there, albeit a young whippet snapper, but will add.... we didn't really know much differently back then, the Milk and Zenith cup was about our pinnacle. Winning the 97 FA Cup was just short of winning the league in 05 in terms of glory.

While I partly agree just, we've come a long way since then and I don't really fancy going back to that level again. It was much different back then, there are now high expectations after winning so much, even for those that were there when we were sh*t!

The old ZDS cup our day out at Wembley !

The 1997 FA Cup was probably my favourite thing ever, it's a tough call but I loved that team and the FA Cup had much more prestige to it back then.

I've always said, I'm just riding the wave while it lasts, because I never ever believed we would have achieved anything like we have.

2 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

Ziyech plays like he's in a coma...wakes up once in a blue moon and scores a decent goal...consistently inconsistent.....

And now we to suffer the Manc's winning the League Cup...

I will be keeping the head down for days, loads of them over here.

57 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

It's such a load of sh*t that people keep bringing up the old days when we complain about the state we are in. All of this "where were you when we were sh*t"........you always bring that sh*t out as deflection tactic. Nobody should be looked down on as a fan just because they want the best for their club. They aren't any less of a fan of the club because they want and demand better than this and you're no more of a fan because you lived through experiences we never did. Thankfully, the club in the past 20 years hasn't followed that way of thinking because if they had, we would never have had Mourinho, we would never have won league titles and Champions League titles. I'll always be there through the tough times, but I will never just sit back and not demand better when we are underperforming.

Scott you make a lot of sensible points but hear me out. 

When we were sh*t, we were proper Chelsea, proper London club and them days were the best. So what if we won so much within the past 20 years, you never experienced or maybe you did and have forgotten the sh*t days. Oh boy those days were sure fun. And the respect other teams will even give us for being a proper club that allows managers time. I mean the most any manager got under Roman was about 3 years or so. Before that we had John Neal who did 4 years in 81. But let's just pretend so the oppos don't know between then and when Roman bought the club we had managers in charge for even less than 2 years. Ssshhhhhh. Hush hush. 

People don't even know our history, we once had a manager that stayed as long as klopp now has with pool in the 60s. Dave Sexton even delivered us FA cup in 70 and euro cup winners in 71. Fruits of stability. We need to reconnect to them good ol days. 

All we need is stability. The manager is  a bright young manager, only 47 years old that one. He needs to be supported and given the time to work his magic. He never had pre season, there are too many players trying to integrate into the team, he needs to give everyone a chance so moving things around a lot. Can you not remember how his Brighton even beat big teams like city, United and Chelsea? 

Remember we poached him from a club that were even above us in the league so we should be lucky he even came to us. 

2 hours ago, just said:

That's part of the problem Carlo. A proportion, a very, very high proportion of "fans" on here. Have not seen tough times. Ever. They have no point of reference to what we are going through now.

Agreed Just. I can understand the debate and opinions over Potter. There is always going to be that kind of conversation on here when we hit this kind of terrible form. But I cannot understand those who would prefer us to lose so that it increases chances of Potter being fired. In the immortal words of Blue is the Colour "So cheer us on through the sun and rain 'Cause Chelsea, Chelsea is our name". Well we are in the pouring rain right now. This is when we need to get behind the team the most.

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by forbzy

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

It's such a load of sh*t that people keep bringing up the old days when we complain about the state we are in. All of this "where were you when we were sh*t"........you always bring that sh*t out as deflection tactic. Nobody should be looked down on as a fan just because they want the best for their club. They aren't any less of a fan of the club because they want and demand better than this and you're no more of a fan because you lived through experiences we never did. Thankfully, the club in the past 20 years hasn't followed that way of thinking because if they had, we would never have had Mourinho, we would never have won league titles and Champions League titles. I'll always be there through the tough times, but I will never just sit back and not demand better when we are underperforming.

I agree that no fan should necessarily be given higher value just because they have been around longer. That being said I think the point being made about those days is that the fans who lived through them actually experienced times when we were crap, and yet stayed with the team throughout. Plenty of fair weather fans chose not to, and moved on to support other teams in that era. We all hope that we see continued success but that is never guaranteed. As fans we certainly all enjoy the days when the club is enjoying success. But the club needs its fans the most when times are tough. I would say by recent standards the last year has been dreadful, but we still have our club. Something that looked uncertain a year ago. Lets hope better days will return soon.

22 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Scott you make a lot of sensible points but hear me out. 

When we were sh*t, we were proper Chelsea, proper London club and them days were the best. So what if we won so much within the past 20 years, you never experienced or maybe you did and have forgotten the sh*t days. Oh boy those days were sure fun. And the respect other teams will even give us for being a proper club that allows managers time. I mean the most any manager got under Roman was about 3 years or so. Before that we had John Neal who did 4 years in 81. But let's just pretend so the oppos don't know between then and when Roman bought the club we had managers in charge for even less than 2 years. Ssshhhhhh. Hush hush. 

People don't even know our history, we once had a manager that stayed as long as klopp now has with pool in the 60s. Dave Sexton even delivered us FA cup in 70 and euro cup winners in 71. Fruits of stability. We need to reconnect to them good ol days. 

All we need is stability. The manager is  a bright young manager, only 47 years old that one. He needs to be supported and given the time to work his magic. He never had pre season, there are too many players trying to integrate into the team, he needs to give everyone a chance so moving things around a lot. Can you not remember how his Brighton even beat big teams like city, United and Chelsea? 

Remember we poached him from a club that were even above us in the league so we should be lucky he even came to us. 

I'm curious as to how long you can keep this up, it must be exhausting!

2 hours ago, Deino said:

This is a weird justification of backing a loser of a manager. So because you have experienced the tough times, you are willing to go through another tough time just to have the right to say "I survived 5 relegations with Chelsea, I'm a proper fan!"

Yeah really weird. We've never had such bad times as this under a manager who turned it around.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/john-neal-footballer-and-manager-who-led-impecunious-chelsea-out-of-the-second-division-doldrums-in-the-early-1980s-9885747.html

Got to know your past to know your present Deino. Thought you knew it.

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by just

Something tells me we neither spent 600m in 1980 nor did that squad in 1980 have world cup winners, European champions, and serial trophy winners. 

Comparing apples to oranges. 

18 minutes ago, AJMurphy25 said:

I'm curious as to how long you can keep this up, it must be exhausting!

Well you don't know what us proper Chelsea lads have gone through in them days. This exhausting? 

I've only seen the folly of my ways in wanting my club to do well and have a manager that deserves of the role. One who has the clout, experience and more than the personality of a...... I won't get personal, just going to stick to facts..... want a manager that has proven himself or showing prospects, not like a young manager at 47 who has managed for over a decade and slayed Arsenal under Wenger in Europe group stage game, Swansea 10th and Brighton 9th amongst his managerial achievements.

So the stability brigade have won me over and I'm now on their side. Who cares if I don't enjoy watching my team play anymore or we have a run of form that is more akin to Brighton than Chelsea, or we are nesting comfortably in 10th position, or I can't discern any particular pattern or point to our play. As long as we can have some long term stability, surely that's something? 

Anyway just ignore me, always an option. 

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by abister1

5 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Something tells me we neither spent 600m in 1980 nor did that squad in 1980 have world cup winners, European champions, and serial trophy winners. 

Comparing apples to oranges. 

It is not about comparing spending etc. It is about staying a fan when your team goes through bad times. Many of the fans of the perennial top 5-6 teams have no idea what it feels like to experience those kinds of times. I've seen the likes of Liverpool and Man United fans describing the experience of being starved of success after a few years with no trophies, and I suspect we now have a fair few of those. I certainly hope the newer fans on here don't have to experience relegation either but if they do at some point, I hope they stick with us. 

51 minutes ago, Carloseyebrow said:

Just don't understand Ziyech ever starting when he was a minute or two from leaving, let alone the fact he has not been good enough ever.

I wonder if Potter has found himself with an embarrassment of riches and is trying to keep too many players happy with game time. Personally I’d like to see him put out his best eleven most weeks and try to establish some play patterns and on field relationships. Then again he may see Ziyech as one of his better players and then we know the problem is bigger than thought.

8 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Something tells me we neither spent 600m in 1980 nor did that squad in 1980 have world cup winners, European champions, and serial trophy winners. 

Comparing apples to oranges. 

You must be learning a lot about our history reading all this Sconnie. Take time to digest and reflect then come back.

Comparing Blueberry pie to Gumbo.

14 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Something tells me we neither spent 600m in 1980 nor did that squad in 1980 have world cup winners, European champions, and serial trophy winners. 

Comparing apples to oranges. 

This is it, spot on. It’s all about expectation and performing to that level. 
Not which era had the worst results.

we were at that lower level in the 80’s, we weren’t up there with the Liverpools and Arsenals. 

You know it's real bad when it's got to the "let's hope we avoid relegation but we've got through that before and we would again if it happens"

I mean, yes it's great that we supported the club in the dark ages as well. But come off it.

 

10 minutes ago, forbzy said:

It is not about comparing spending etc. It is about staying a fan when your team goes through bad times. Many of the fans of the perennial top 5-6 teams have no idea what it feels like to experience those kinds of times. I've seen the likes of Liverpool and Man United fans describing the experience of being starved of success after a few years with no trophies, and I suspect we now have a fair few of those. I certainly hope the newer fans on here don't have to experience relegation either but if they do at some point, I hope they stick with us. 

Hmmm, think you are way off the mark with what I am actually arguing here. 

9 minutes ago, just said:

You must be learning a lot about our history reading all this Sconnie. Take time to digest and reflect then come back.

Comparing Blueberry pie to Gumbo.

Define false equivalence for me.

I don't need to here your self righteous comments how you were there when we were sh*t, just simply define false equivalence. 

Once you do, get back to me on why comparing John Neal and Graham Potter is nonsense. 

1 hour ago, Mod said:

I was there, albeit a young whippet snapper, but will add.... we didn't really know much differently back then, the Milk and Zenith cup was about our pinnacle. Winning the 97 FA Cup was just short of winning the league in 05 in terms of glory.

While I partly agree just, we've come a long way since then and I don't really fancy going back to that level again. It was much different back then, there are now high expectations after winning so much, even for those that were there when we were sh*t!

No argument with much of that Mod. However, you fail to mention our expectations rose on occasions. John Neal era. Gullit era. Vialli era. I was in the ground at Bolton when we finally won the PL in 2005. I was in the ground in Munich when we won the the CL in 2012. But, you know what, the Neal / Guillit / Vialli seasons are still some of my most enjoyable times as a Chelsea fan. Particularly the John Neal years. We came back from the brink of absolute disaster, way, way, way beyond anything we are seeing now, and emerged with a new exciting, fast paced team with players nobody had heard of. Dixon, Speedie, Nevin, Spackman, Cannoville there's £600 million worth of talent right there in modern day value.

Will we repeat that? Who knows. But we have been here before with knobs on and we came out the other side. Some fans on here lived it, breathed and understand it. The vast majority IMO, didn't and don't. End of.

 

Just now, just said:

No argument with much of that Mod. However, you fail to mention our expectations rose on occasions. John Neal era. Gullit era. Vialli era. I was in the ground at Bolton when we finally won the PL in 2005. I was in the ground in Munich when we won the the CL in 2012. But, you know what, the Neal / Guillit / Vialli seasons are still some of my most enjoyable times as a Chelsea fan. Particularly the John Neal years. We came back from the brink of absolute disaster, way, way, way beyond anything we are seeing now, and emerged with a new exciting, fast paced team with players nobody had heard of. Dixon, Speedie, Nevin, Spackman, Cannoville there's £600 million worth of talent right there in modern day value.

Will we repeat that? Who knows. But we have been here before with knobs on and we came out the other side. Some fans on here lived it, breathed and understand it. The vast majority IMO, didn't and don't. End of.

 

Were you there when Isildur failed to destroy the ring? Curious. 

10 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

Define false equivalence for me.

I don't need to here your self righteous comments how you were there when we were sh*t, just simply define false equivalence. 

Once you do, get back to me on why comparing John Neal and Graham Potter is nonsense. 

False equivalence is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone incorrectly asserts that two or more things are equivalent, simply because they share some characteristics, despite the fact that there are also notable differences between them. For example, a false equivalence is saying that cats and dogs are the same animal, since they’re both mammals and have a tail.

Got it. So like comparing Sarri with Potter? I understand.