18 minutes ago, MyWord said:

He’s erratic, but he’s our erratic. And he puts effort in. That goes a long way in my book. Some people think he’s rubbish, ok, but he tries and never hides. That takes balls. He’s growing on me. I remember when Drogba arrived, I thought he was dreadful and they didn’t turn out too badly. 

Agree with all you have said here except for the last sentence.

These were the days when I was a ST holder. That first title winning season I went to all the home games and a good number away, including when we clinched the title at Bolton. Make no mistake everyone, no Drogba = no title.

Certainly, he was raw but from day 1 he was so, so important to how we played as a team. For every time he hit the deck too easily he usually had 5,6,7 examples to show of excellent hold up play linking the midfield to the attack. And as for his aerial ability, I only have one word AWESOME. He never gave defenders a moments peace. And because he was so strong those defenders had to resort to kicking lumps out of him to get the ball. And that was usually why he went to ground. Foul, after foul, after foul. But he got zero protection from referees. None. Because the media had started on this "he falls over" campaign rather than talking about the terrible treatment he was receiving on the pitch. He also had two months out with a serious stomach muscle injury.

Before Drogba arrived we had a number 9 in JFH who scored goals. But we won nothing with him up front. Why? Because he couldn't do all the other bits well at all. Not great at holding the ball up, not great in the air, and practically non-existent from a work rate and defensive point view. All those things that Drogba brought us that first season contributed to the highest number of goals scored by our midfielders and defenders at the point in our history and our first top tier title since 1955. Oh, and he scored in a cup-final win against Liverpool too.

 

 

19 minutes ago, dkw said:

Yeah I agree,don't see him being able to play as a 10. He made 1 very good pass, but that was vastly outnumbered by his terrible choices that lost possession. Even with a few minutes yo go we had a 3 on 3, all he had to do was slow up and wait for the other 2 to take position, instead he tried the impossible pass which was easily intercepted that then led to a Luton chance.

Thats all down to Todd and Clearlake , can't blame Jacko for poor decision making , it's passed down from the top.

🤣🤣

37 minutes ago, just said:

Agree with all you have said here except for the last sentence.

These were the days when I was a ST holder. That first title winning season I went to all the home games and a good number away, including when we clinched the title at Bolton. Make no mistake everyone, no Drogba = no title.

Certainly, he was raw but from day 1 he was so, so important to how we played as a team. For every time he hit the deck too easily he usually had 5,6,7 examples to show of excellent hold up play linking the midfield to the attack. And as for his aerial ability, I only have one word AWESOME. He never gave defenders a moments peace. And because he was so strong those defenders had to resort to kicking lumps out of him to get the ball. And that was usually why he went to ground. Foul, after foul, after foul. But he got zero protection from referees. None. Because the media had started on this "he falls over" campaign rather than talking about the terrible treatment he was receiving on the pitch. He also had two months out with a serious stomach muscle injury.

Before Drogba arrived we had a number 9 in JFH who scored goals. But we won nothing with him up front. Why? Because he couldn't do all the other bits well at all. Not great at holding the ball up, not great in the air, and practically non-existent from a work rate and defensive point view. All those things that Drogba brought us that first season contributed to the highest number of goals scored by our midfielders and defenders at the point in our history and our first top tier title since 1955. Oh, and he scored in a cup-final win against Liverpool too.

 

 

I love Drogba, but he didn't score many goals in his first season which was out first PL title.

I'm sure he didn't score over 20 PL goals for a couple of seasons.

Both him and Jimmy were great goalscorers, Jimmy playing before Roman's money enabled us to win our first PL title though.

Er, and Drogba used to go down at the slightest touch in the early days, he got into a bit of verbals with a fan behind the goal after cocking up a chance at The Bridge. Loved em both.

Oh for the old days .

Happy New Year Just

5 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Some folk just can't see good or progress because it doesn't fit with their narratives. Apply this to both Broja and Jackson and anyone who isn't "elite" currently playing for mid table has been side. nearly 20 years of being spoiled rotten by a dodgy benefactor has made everyone forget that players actually need to develop somewhere before theyre bought for megabucks by "elite" clubs. 

As we're no long "elite" we now have to "develop" players more than we're used to. Sad but true. So get your kicks deriding players if that's your thing, I'd rather look at the positives and support them and enjoy them develop in their careers, much like Drogba had to do... his first 10 months with us was horrendous and JT had to have a word. 

 

 

 

It will take a while but eventually some will realise we are no longer in the top 3 when it comes to player choices unless we double the bid and possibly agent fees. We are no longer the “Chelsea of Old”.
The whole squad has been poor because they are young players learning but the focus is on Jackson, similar to how Jorginho /Cucu/Mount got blamed for everything or whoever else is the “ Targeted Player” of the month by Chelsea own “fans” and I say the word “fans” lightly.

How can you target your own players, how does that make sense? What mental gymnastics do you go through to come to the conclusion that the best course of action to support one of your own players struggling is boos/abuse/calling him a donkey? 
That will surely get him playing well again!!

Until these young players reach around 26 to 27, you cannot really judge them. That's the age where they reach full maturity. If they're donkeys then, that will be the time to critisice, until then they need constructive critisim.

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Not comparing him to anyone else. Comparisons will not help him or the team. 

Inexperience would explain him not getting into correct positions etc - but this isn't that. Instead he is getting chances. Lots of them. This is not about being inexperienced, but simply that he is a poor player who can't finish chances. 

 

How does one go from poor to fair to good and maybe even great?

Do you remember what Salah was like when he played for us?

Are you wanting a ready made finisher at 21 with three years of football experience. It is possible, but more unlikely at that age and level of experience.

There's a reason for the phrase Practice makes perfect.  Practice be it training, personal time, game time.....practice in terms of doing it more over time.

The fact that he is getting into positions and having shots that he misses should be heartwarming because at that age it means it can be improved.

He's no Haaland, but How many Haalands are there in football?

I go back to Salah, when we bought him he was similar age but he never even hit the heights he did at Basle for us, partly because of inexperience and partly due to not enough opportunities as we had real talent and quality in the squad he was up against.

I'm not saying Jackson is the next Drogba or Salah but that maybe your expectations and conclusion at this stage is a tad bit too soon and too harsh.

5 hours ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

£100m Lukaku - 8 in 26

£30m Jackson - 7 in 19

I know which I'd rather have.

#teamwacko

I do like Lukaku as a player. He would have come good for us I believe. 

I don't like his attitude as it stunk and sometimes you want to excise that so can't complain we pushed him out, or rather supported him pushing himself out.

2 hours ago, Ajbod said:

Until these young players reach around 26 to 27, you cannot really judge them. That's the age where they reach full maturity. If they're donkeys then, that will be the time to critisice, until then they need constructive critisim.

I hope they develop a ton faster than that... A few responsible grown up signings, made between board and manager, for a little more craft and guile would go a long way with this squad. 

I've defended Sterling on here, think he's been really unlucky at times in our shirt, but he does need to up his game because currently Mr Big.Game.Player (Palmer) is ahead of him in the starting 11 for us and England. 

2 hours ago, El regreso said:

It will take a while but eventually some will realise we are no longer in the top 3 when it comes to player choices unless we double the bid and possibly agent fees. We are no longer the “Chelsea of Old”.
The whole squad has been poor because they are young players learning but the focus is on Jackson, similar to how Jorginho /Cucu/Mount got blamed for everything or whoever else is the “ Targeted Player” of the month by Chelsea own “fans” and I say the word “fans” lightly.

How can you target your own players, how does that make sense? What mental gymnastics do you go through to come to the conclusion that the best course of action to support one of your own players struggling is boos/abuse/calling him a donkey? 
That will surely get him playing well again!!

Chelsea of old was a very special time to be a fan. Pre and post Roman as we moved up the gears into big club territory. If we never have that period of success again, the memories are irreplaceable from it, but, they'll come again, perhaps sooner rather than later. Fingers crossed. In the mean time, just going to enjoy being mediocre again where results against the top sides are memorable wins and cup runs give meaning to a weekend. Chelsea of old will turn into Chelsea anew. Aint that the thrilling part of being a long term fan? 

He’s already on course to match last seasons tally playing in a far more difficult league. 
 

People need to stop treating him like he’s a big money signing. We knew when we signed him he was always going to be 2nd choice when we find an elite ST. 

13 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

He’s already on course to match last seasons tally playing in a far more difficult league. 
 

People need to stop treating him like he’s a big money signing. We knew when we signed him he was always going to be 2nd choice when we find an elite ST. 

Agreed Sconnie. He was signed to develop, not a finished article.

Big difference between him and Lukaku.

Not sure if it has been mentioned already but in second half injury time Jackson tracked back and covered when Gusto was beaten, won the ball and the goal kick. 

That was great attitude and attention.

10 hours ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

Eh? You said Jackson doesn't have the strength to play centrally, but I've highlighted a passage of play where he used his strength in a central position to turn the defender and provide an assist.

Sounds like you need to go and rewatch the game. 👍

Sometimes I am confused why some stuff is even up for a debate.. 

Jackson received the ball between the line and he rolled his marker with Nkunku here pinning one of the  as st😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 and then Palmer made run because he saw a gap

 

 

Edited December 31, 20232 yr by Bob stark

10 hours ago, Modueke said:

Would like to see Jackson playing centrally just behind a striker, the pass to Cole yesterday was quality. 

That was a nice pass but not sure he has the skillset to play as 10 though. 

12 hours ago, abister1 said:

How does one go from poor to fair to good and maybe even great?

Do you remember what Salah was like when he played for us?

Are you wanting a ready made finisher at 21 with three years of football experience. It is possible, but more unlikely at that age and level of experience.

There's a reason for the phrase Practice makes perfect.  Practice be it training, personal time, game time.....practice in terms of doing it more over time.

The fact that he is getting into positions and having shots that he misses should be heartwarming because at that age it means it can be improved.

He's no Haaland, but How many Haalands are there in football?

I go back to Salah, when we bought him he was similar age but he never even hit the heights he did at Basle for us, partly because of inexperience and partly due to not enough opportunities as we had real talent and quality in the squad he was up against.

I'm not saying Jackson is the next Drogba or Salah but that maybe your expectations and conclusion at this stage is a tad bit too soon and too harsh.

Of course, some things can be trained - positioning, composure etc ...

....but finishing is, in my opinion, something which doesn't really get all that better - and is something that comes more naturally. 

My  eldest lad was a natural finisher. Top scorer in his league, banging them in, but he was a lazy swine who didn't put in any real practice or training.

In comparison, My youngest is a real grafter - always out playing and practicing. His finishing is still rubbish and although it improved a bit, but he is still no finisher. 

 

28 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

..but finishing is, in my opinion, something which doesn't really get all that better - and is something that comes more naturally. 

I literally used the most relatable experience, for a Chelsea fan, as an example in Salah and you still say this.

Tells me something about your train of thought, perhaps mischievous motivation and my conclusion that I don't bother anymore with this as no point to it.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Of course, some things can be trained - positioning, composure etc ...

....but finishing is, in my opinion, something which doesn't really get all that better - and is something that comes more naturally. 

My  eldest lad was a natural finisher. Top scorer in his league, banging them in, but he was a lazy swine who didn't put in any real practice or training.

In comparison, My youngest is a real grafter - always out playing and practicing. His finishing is still rubbish and although it improved a bit, but he is still no finisher. 

 

Aren't your boys about 6 and 8  ?

19 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Aren't your boys about 6 and 8  ?

Now (almost) 10 and 12...... Time flies!

2 hours ago, abister1 said:

I literally used the most relatable experience, for a Chelsea fan, as an example in Salah and you still say this.

Tells me something about your train of thought, perhaps mischievous motivation and my conclusion that I don't bother anymore with this as no point to it.

It is true that Salah came on leaps and bounds - as did the likes of Thierry Henry. They both clearly grew and developed into special players.... It is equally true that for every Salah and Henry, there are 20,000 + others that didnt.

As ever, in the real world, there is probably no binary answer to any of this and there are clearly different schools of thought. You think that finishing can be practiced and taught - and ergo, that every hardworking tom dick or harry can go on to light up the league....That is your prerogative.

I on the other hand believe that goalscroing is for a large part a natural instinct, and that the likes of Salah (as you mention) are the exception rather than the rule.

In short, I think the ability to convert chances is innate and that Goalscorers are born. You think it can be coached. It is probably somewhere between the two extremes..... there have actually been some good articles on this, that go into the detail a lot more scientifically and eloquently than you, I or Nicolas the Nicolas Jackson can. an excerpt from one below.

"The tapestry of a goalscorer is an intricate mix of anticipation, spatial awareness, confidence, single-mindedness, resilience, a cool head and athleticism. Elements of this profile will be hardwired thanks to the genetic code passed on by our parents. This isn’t necessarily translated into brain power, but the smoothness with which the engine runs. "A lot of it comes down to not what part of the brain does what, but how well connected the brain is and the efficiency and readiness with which it can link together and get work done" explained Dr Dean Burnett. The goalscorer’s high-functioning brain digests an overload of information in seconds, enabling them to process their emotions then act with a calculated response and execute their selection with physical prowess; so they handle stress, pick their spot and then strike the ball with power and precision."

I have not seen anything from Jackson to suggest that he has the special gene to be an intelligent, calm headed finisher.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Sometimes I am confused why some stuff is even up for a debate.. 

Jackson received the ball between the line and he rolled his marker with Nkunku here pinning one of the  as st😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫 and then Palmer made run because he saw a gap

 

 

You seem to be confused a lot. Perhaps go and have a check up with your doctor?

To clarify for you once more - you said Jackson doesn't have the "physicality" to play centrally...

 

Physicality
noun. 1. the state or quality of being physical. 2. the physical characteristics of a person, object, etc.

 

...yet in the example above Jackson is playing centrally and used strength, balance, agility and acceleration to turn the defender, progress up field and provide an assist for a goal. If that's not physicality then what is? Or do you simply not understand what you yourself have written?

Jackson’s physicality is good and he will likely bulk up more in the next year or two. Wheth you can learn to be cool in front of goal in the  way costa or even Palmer is and kalou for instance never was is another matter. 

1 hour ago, Gonoir Beniashile said:

You seem to be confused a lot. Perhaps go and have a check up with your doctor?

To clarify for you once more - you said Jackson doesn't have the "physicality" to play centrally...

 

Physicality
noun. 1. the state or quality of being physical. 2. the physical characteristics of a person, object, etc.

 

...yet in the example above Jackson is playing centrally and used strength, balance, agility and acceleration to turn the defender, progress up field and provide an assist for a goal. If that's not physicality then what is? Or do you simply not understand what you yourself have written

So you look at that screenshot and your conclusion is that Jackson received the ball as cf

Edited January 1, 20242 yr by Bob stark

5 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

So you look at that screenshot and your conclusion is that Jackson received the ball as cf

Nope!

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

In short, I think the ability to convert chances is innate and that Goalscorers are born. You think it can be coached. It is probably somewhere between the two extremes.....

I'm in agreement with this, I prefer to be optimistic about the chances of a 21 year old improving. 

I take your point on board though and hope he can somehow turn your view around because it will mean we are doing well or better, at least on the goal scoring front.

His finishing is bad, really bad, and his decision making isn't great and he seems hell bent on keeping up his average of nearly a yellow card per game.

But, credit where it's due, I thought he played well on the left against Luton, less pressure for finishing off chances and more off the cuff decisions.

I'd like to see him there a bit more before we totally give up on him.

When you look at his pre season shots, and prior to coming to us, he isn't that bad a finisher. He's certainly not showing it at the moment. With a boost in confidence, and more stability in selection and a more defined style, i think he will blossom, and may surprise a few. at the moment he seems to miss the chances where he has time to think. When it's a reaction it's usually on target or close.