You're being harsh on Torres in this game, we were unable to break down their defence and get the ball to him at all which isn't really his fault, Torres has obviously been told to stay up front and not come deep to get the ball anymore (I'm basing this on what I've seen since Rafa has arrived) which can leave him isolated up top and when you're against a well organised defence like Norwich's is it's hard to get into the game.

 

So, the reason his performance today resembled the vast majority of his performances in a blue shirt is because, er, he's been given different instructions by the manager? Brilliant.

Perhaps you should have watched the Liverpool game later in the day and watch two centre forwards / strikers working their bollocks off rather than run around with an Alice band in their hair and falling over every time they were touched. Suarez was up against two or three Stoke defenders all day and who have the best defensive record in the league; he was knocked down continually and always got up and chased the ball rather than sit on his arse and look around feeling sorry for himself.  Jones was battling against two Liverpool central defenders and winning balls in the air.  I don't think Torres has actually won a meaningful ball in the air against a central defender since he's been here .  I'm an no Liverpool supporter or fan of Suarez but I'll take his work rate over Torres all day long.   Perhaps you should go back through my posts.  I have supported Torres early on because it has been a difficult transition for him especially wearing a blue shirt instead of a red one.  He's been here long enough now but have got tired of his hot and cold attitude and if you think that the fat Spanish waiter, sorry 'interim manager' is going to put Torres's head back together and straighten his sorry attitude out your sadly mistaken.  He was broken when Roman brought him here and he's still broken today despite having the luxury of some of the best managers in the business to pander to him.

 

I will continue to support players wearing the blue shirt and I will criticize them when they don't put a shift in, Torres didn't put a shift in today. I don't hate him because I don't know him personally, and I don't know if your an idiot either, because I don't know you and I wouldn't insult you or a fellow CFC supporter.   So have some respect for someone who has fought for their country so you and others like you can have the freedom to speak without being thrown in jail.  And think about the terraces in the early 70's, there are people on here like me who have bled for this team before you were even born so I wouldn't go insulting them anytime soon either, when they are critical of Torres, especially when many of them would have ripped your head off and sh*t down your neck many years ago.   Take care and stay safe.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiSxm9vPQJ4

Perhaps you should have watched the Liverpool game later in the day and watch two centre forwards / strikers working their bollocks off rather than run around with an Alice band in their hair and falling over every time they were touched. Suarez was up against two or three Stoke defenders all day and who have the best defensive record in the league; he was knocked down continually and always got up and chased the ball rather than sit on his arse and look around feeling sorry for himself.  Jones was battling against two Liverpool central defenders and winning balls in the air.  I don't think Torres has actually won a meaningful ball in the air against a central defender since he's been here .  I'm an no Liverpool supporter or fan of Suarez but I'll take his work rate over Torres all day long.   Perhaps you should go back through my posts.  I have supported Torres early on because it has been a difficult transition for him especially wearing a blue shirt instead of a red one.  He's been here long enough now but have got tired of his hot and cold attitude and if you think that the fat Spanish waiter, sorry 'interim manager' is going to put Torres's head back together and straighten his sorry attitude out your sadly mistaken.  He was broken when Roman brought him here and he's still broken today despite having the luxury of some of the best managers in the business to pander to him.

 

I will continue to support players wearing the blue shirt and I will criticize them when they don't put a shift in, Torres didn't put a shift in today. I don't hate him because I don't know him personally, and I don't know if your an idiot either, because I don't know you and I wouldn't insult you or a fellow CFC supporter.   So have some respect for someone who has fought for their country so you and others like you can have the freedom to speak without being thrown in jail.  And think about the terraces in the early 70's, there are people on here like me who have bled for this team before you were even born so I wouldn't go insulting them anytime soon either, when they are critical of Torres, especially when many of them would have ripped your head off and sh*t down your neck many years ago.   Take care and stay safe.  

 

 

So you're bringing up that you've fought for your country in a discussion about football? And I should be thankful that you used to fight over a game of football? Because you've done all of this does not mean I have to lick your arse and the fact that you think that I should is f**king ridiculous, the fact that you've brought any of this stuff up in a debate about football is embarrassing. I'm on this thread to talk about Torres, not about your personal life.

 

Back on the subject, I still feel you've been harsh on Torres today, would I rather Suarez over Torres' work rate? Of course I would, but today I think that people have stuck the boot into Torres more than is warranted, we were against a great defensive team and all of our attackers, not just Torres were unable to break down Norwich's defence and it took a moment of brilliance from long range to get a goal.

 

Bear in mind that I have come in here to discuss Torres, if you have anything else to add of that subject I will happily discuss it with you but if you want to talk about your personal life don't bother because I won't reply.

You missed the point.... and if you think Norwich are a great defensive team then you may not have watched a lot of football.  Please carry on insulting people if it helps you get through the day, because it's very easy to do that from the comfort of your own home and behind a keyboard and with anonymity.  

 

Have a wonderful holiday and a Happy New Year. 

So have some respect for someone who has fought for their country so you and others like you can have the freedom to speak without being thrown in jail. 

 

That's a bizarre non-sequitur to throw into a discussion about Torres. 

That's a bizarre non-sequitur to throw into a discussion about Torres. 

 

 

That's not about Torres. I was simply making a point.  

You missed the point.... and if you think Norwich are a great defensive team then you may not have watched a lot of football.  Please carry on insulting people if it helps you get through the day, because it's very easy to do that from the comfort of your own home and behind a keyboard and with anonymity.  

 

Have a wonderful holiday and a Happy New Year. 

 

Norwich are still a team that have kept clean sheets against Man United and Arsenal and haven't been beaten at home in the league since September. They might not have the big name defenders but they are very organised at the back as was shown today and many times this season.

 

I hope your Christmas has been fantastic.

Norwich are still a team that have kept clean sheets against Man United and Arsenal and haven't been beaten at home in the league since September. They might not have the big name defenders but they are very organised at the back as was shown today and many times this season.

 

I hope your Christmas has been fantastic.

 

They've also conceded 28 goals, which puts them 13th in the Premiership. They're certainly well organized, but I'd definitely hesitate before calling them great.

They've also conceded 28 goals, which puts them 13th in the Premiership. They're certainly well organized, but I'd definitely hesitate before calling them great.

 

Great may have been a bit of a strong word to be honest but I think today they were very good defensively and have been for the past few months. They got hammered in a few games early on this season while Houghton was getting the team together, 14 of the goals conceded this season were in 3 games early on in the season when they were a shambles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiSxm9vPQJ4

 

 

You didn't address his point at all 

Alvin martin summed up Torres yesterday, ' may not of had a big influence on the game, because of being isolated up top, but while Chelsea continue to win, this will stop the Torres bashing', and deflect to winning issues!!.

Being honest you'd have to say Torres was poor yesterday against a decent side, not great, simply decent. It was an average display that matched most of his performances for the over-whelming majority of his time with us. He may score us a few goals, he may occaisionally contribute to some nice build-up play, but he is never going to give us an all-round, grab-a-game-by-the-balls, Drogba type MOTM performance because he is just not capable of it. It's a simple equation for me. If we want to be one of the very best sides in europe again it will help us greatly to have one of the best centre-forwards in europe. Torres isn't that and never will be again. There are better strikers out there. Lots of them. We just need one.

He is a squad player now and will continue to score some goals, 14 is not a bad tally so far at Christmas.
 

We do however need a RVP, Aguero, Falcao type who will change games and win them on their own, Torres aint that and even in his prime he was not a lethal goal scorer.

If we can bring in one of the above types of striker and keep Torres as another option (wether he is happy with that will reamain to be seen) will be good for us I reckon.

Top clubs have more than 1 option up top and each option usually is quality. This is what we need, Torres has played so much football so far this season and he needs to be rested more (The decision to not bring another in during the summer looks so foolish now, especially since we knew Danny was going to leave) so we can keep our team fresh.

If we failt to bring in a top striker in Jan then I fear for our form as Torres will score a goal or 2 one game then not impact the next game and so on while needing to rest.

 

Let's hope Roman is on the phone to Falcao's people as I type!
 

Another 'pathetic' performance from Torres yesterday the ONLY Chelsea player not committed to the cause.

Fans are not stupid, the bloke is a complete and utter disgrace to Premiership football.

Before kick off the players did a outside the box one two with a trainer before finishing just inside the box past Hillario.

They took five each in total - Torres was shuffling uncomfortably in the cold every time he stepped up. Luiz bagged 5 as did Mata. Ashley Cole scored 4 as did Cahill, Oscar 3 as Moses, most like Ivanovic scored 2 TORRES scored ONE !

They took five each in total - Torres was shuffling uncomfortably in the cold every time he stepped up. Luiz bagged 5 as did Mata. Ashley Cole scored 4 as did Cahill, Oscar 3 as Moses, most like Ivanovic scored 2 TORRES scored ONE !

 

He had poor balls to him from the trainer.

 

It was too close to the goal.

 

It was the wrong side of the box for Torres.

 

Cech tried harder when Torres had his turn.

 

The ball was too wet by the time Torres had his turn.

 

Sunderland is further away from Spain than Stamford Bridge.

I'm not too sure a pre-mtach warm up kick about is anything to get too worked up about either way. Had he scored 10 would it have been praise worthy? No.

 

From what I saw (in the actual game, not the warm up) he was not great, pretty quiet, pretty much a standard Torres sort of performance albeit against a stubborn Norwich defence, not quite sure it was worthy of being labelled a 'disgrace to Premiership football' mind you, especially on the back of quite a useful performance against Villa in which he looked perfectly committed and scored a high quality goal.

Edited December 27, 201213 yr by mclovin83

Being honest you'd have to say Torres was poor yesterday against a decent side, not great, simply decent. It was an average display that matched most of his performances for the over-whelming majority of his time with us. He may score us a few goals, he may occaisionally contribute to some nice build-up play, but he is never going to give us an all-round, grab-a-game-by-the-balls, Drogba type MOTM performance because he is just not capable of it. It's a simple equation for me. If we want to be one of the very best sides in europe again it will help us greatly to have one of the best centre-forwards in europe. Torres isn't that and never will be again. There are better strikers out there. Lots of them. We just need one.

You are right. If you compare Torres to Drogba as a clinical finisher, what could be described as being Fernando's main trade, Drogba is and have always been better in that category as well. On the top of that he could hold the ball better, could head the ball better, could bully the defenders better and so on. Drogba was special so we can't expect anyone to surpass his heroics ever again but I agree that we need better than Nando.

Another 'pathetic' performance from Torres yesterday the ONLY Chelsea player not committed to the cause.

Fans are not stupid, the bloke is a complete and utter disgrace to Premiership football.

Before kick off the players did a outside the box one two with a trainer before finishing just inside the box past Hillario.

They took five each in total - Torres was shuffling uncomfortably in the cold every time he stepped up. Luiz bagged 5 as did Mata. Ashley Cole scored 4 as did Cahill, Oscar 3 as Moses, most like Ivanovic scored 2 TORRES scored ONE !

Is this a serious post? Having a go at a player for missing in the warm up? Hahahahahaha

Torres was a clinical finisher at Liverpool, and when put through on goal with time to think he rarely missed. That is one of the differences to the current incarnation of Fernando Torres. nowadays it appears that if he has any time to think then he seems to bottle it. He looks scared at times....when he doesnt have time to think (ala  his goals against newcastle and villa) then he still is a great finisher.

 

His first touch is, and has always been poor. his decision making is also pretty poor...again, when he has time to think he messes up.  I used to regularly watch and discuss Torres Vs Drogba with my liverpool mates, and they all agreed (as did I) that Torres first touch was always pants, but his second often lethal....Drogba was a better all around player, no doubt, but not a more effective finisher than Nando  was in his prime. Torres of old would eat half chances for breakfast...his extra speed and finishing helped him convert countless semi decent half chances into goals. Drogba used to bully defenders and power himself to goals, but Torres was a more clinical finisher in my opinion.

 

There are lots of reasons as to why torres is not the player he ionce was, why he is not scoring as he used to, why he has fear in his eyes rather than striking fear into opponents hearts...all of which have been suggested on this forum, and argued for and against on multiple different occasions until the cows came home (daisy, get the f**k out of my living room)... for me simply, he is not the player he once was, he is not the player we thought we had bought, we have not played in a manner to get the best out of him (although we have been accomodating and tried to adapt), he has not played in a manner that is for the best for our team (although he has tried to adapt and often runs his heart out for the team), he has been a failure. Do i think that another striker in similar circumstances would necesarilly do better? No - i dont....We have had too much of a history with striking failures for their to be no co-incidence. Drogba and Jimmy are the only two who have been a success in the recent past (i dont count Eidur as a striker) - I just dont think that our team is/has been set up in a way that gets the best out of the stirkers we have. Drogba was made for the team -  a perfect match.  A  powerful player who fit in with what Jose wanted that version of Chelsea to be. A big, powerful, juggernaut of a machine that bulldozed through anything and everything. We tried to shoehorn Torres into that team and expect him to be the player he was at liverpool - it failed. We tried the same with Sheva, it failed. If we try the same with Falcao, it could well also fail...

 

We now play with pace, but we are not necisarrily direct in the correct manner that benefits our strikers. Our first touch is often backwards. just look at how we played on Wednesday, Our players control the ball with a backwards 1st touch, then move it sideways across the pitch, progressing up field bit by bit....we are doing this faster now than we have in the past, but it still  allows teams to sit deep and get men behind the ball....there is very little space behind defenders. Players such as  RVP, Aguero, Rooney, Drogba etc are all real footballers who can make things happen by themselves. They have a footballing brain and ability which allows them to adapt, make space, adjust, come deep etc. ...For me, players like Torres and Sheva before him were/are not the same, they were finishers pure and simple, and when the team were not set up exactly to get the best out of them, there were not able to adjust, despite their best efforts. Without the space for them to exploit, and possible the half yard of pace to burn they were finished. I do not know enough about our targets such as Falcao to know whether he is any different, but one thing i do know is that i see little in the performances of Torres to suggest that he is going to significantly up his performances and effectiveness to an acceptable level. He tries hard. He has tried coming deep, he has tried going wide, now Rafa has asked him to stay central in the box....but he still doesnt convince. I have zero confidence that when we are chasing the game, in need of a goal that he is the man to score it. On many occasions we seem to score despite of him rather than because of him.

 

Erm...i am not to sure where that stream of text  came from, i only intended a quick reply.....

I love how after the Villa game when I tried to say how we shouldn't get carried away because he scored a good goal and all I got was abuse for it...

 

In regards to Torres performance it was a typical Torres run out. Pretty anonymous throughout. Although he did link up well with Hazard during that game and that could be the only positive I can pull out. It is fair to say he's been improving and he has definitely regained a bit of confidence. However in this scenario I highly doubt it's all mentally in his head, he has definitely lost some technical ability. I can't really tell if his pace has downgraded as he can be lightening quick at times and at others slow as hell.

Edited December 27, 201213 yr by Erik

Torres was a clinical finisher at Liverpool, and when put through on goal with time to think he rarely missed. 

 

I remember him differently. He wasn't any more clinical then as he is now, but he was much quicker and full of confidence, not to mention that Liverpool set up their side in such a way that feeding him was the first, second, third and fourth option. 

I remember him differently. He wasn't any more clinical then as he is now, but he was much quicker and full of confidence, not to mention that Liverpool set up their side in such a way that feeding him was the first, second, third and fourth option. 

I agree that liverpool lacked options up top (although striker wise they had more than we currently do!) and they played very much to Torres's strengths to feed him regularly with the through balls he thrives on (something which we do not do). When taken together with the confidence issues and the half yard of pace that appear to have gone (someone said the stats show he is the same, but to me it looks like he is running in tar at times!) the player looks a shadow of his former self.

 

Whether he is more clinicial, less clinical or about the same, the overall package has diminished. the sad thing is that even though he is scoring a few goals recently, we all seem to have lost faith, and are even bored with the whole issue. I am not sure i have ever felt bored by a player before.  I have been a supporter of him over the last year, and would likely be tagged of being in the pro torres camp, but whe whole torres affair is draining, and the sooner we get a replacement the better.

Obviously we need another forward in January now studge is on his way. Villa would be ideal, I've heard Negredo's name mentioned wouldnt be upset with that either. Falcao isn't happening in January but we can hope for the summer. Until then give Torres the season and if he doesn't hit 20 goals at least then he should be shipped out if anybody would pay for him!

Are we still going to want him gone if he finishes the season with 30+ goals, though? Also, I doubt he'll be going anywhere if Roman gives Rafa the job full time.

 

React to that how you like but it's definitely possible. 

Are we still going to want him gone if he finishes the season with 30+ goals, though? Also, I doubt he'll be going anywhere if Roman gives Rafa the job full time.

 

React to that how you like but it's definitely possible. 

 

That's entirely dependent on who those goals are scored against.

 

I can't see him finishing with 30+ no matter what happens, though. He's only done that once in his entire career and it was when he was at the peak of his abilities.