Either better number 10 or just more competition, he did pretty well keeping Mata out of the side. So once again they key word 'rotation' comes back into mind.

Pinning for Mata and "better" players but the current Chelsea number 10 looks set to be a part of our first title winning team in 5 years.

Funny old world isn't it?

 

Are you saying that a title winning team should be kept unchanged and Oscar should remain the undisputed starter if we win the title? 

And we could of won the league with Mata playing instead of Oscar. Guarantee Mata would have scored more goals and got more assits.

I just think a lot of posters have a "grass is always greener" mindset.

Mata's average Premier League finishing position is probably about 5th.

We're on course to win our first league title in 5 years and yet the way some of the team, Oscar in particular, are being spoken about you'd be excused for thinking that we're in a similar state to Sunderland right now.

The boys chipped in with more than a few goals and assists and is still very much in the beginning stages of his career but is still being subjected to some rather derogatory comments by the fans.

I just find it interesting that a team that is so close to winning the biggest prize is being so heftily criticised and scrutinised.

Should players be immune from criticism? Of course not but I just feel that some of it is over the top and for a team that is on the brink of achieving so much.

I think Oscar's problem is that he doesn't have a quality striker like Torres to supply too, in that regard Mata always had a great advantage.

And we could of won the league with Mata playing instead of Oscar. Guarantee Mata would have scored more goals and got more assits.

 

Even though i dont particularly rate mata, i still agree with this.

 

Our defenders must be absolutely sht, if putting in mata instead of oscar, would turn our already shaky defence, into a title losing one

Edited March 16, 201511 yr by launcher

Mata's pressing game isn't as good as Oscar's and that was key to a lot of the good stuff we were doing earlier in the season.

I was with you but then you went and blew it.

Bring in who exactly?

To what point Oscar being tasked with defending (because he is good at it) influences his attacking performance?

I remember that in most of those games where Oscar was being voted MOTM, Hazard did not have particularly good games... maybe because he had to sacrifice himself more at defense too ?

I just think a lot of posters have a "grass is always greener" mindset.

Mata's average Premier League finishing position is probably about 5th.

We're on course to win our first league title in 5 years and yet the way some of the team, Oscar in particular, are being spoken about you'd be excused for thinking that we're in a similar state to Sunderland right now.

The boys chipped in with more than a few goals and assists and is still very much in the beginning stages of his career but is still being subjected to some rather derogatory comments by the fans.

I just find it interesting that a team that is so close to winning the biggest prize is being so heftily criticised and scrutinised.

Should players be immune from criticism? Of course not but I just feel that some of it is over the top and for a team that is on the brink of achieving so much.

 

I agree that the team should be judged on the season as a whole that has been pretty good but on a forum you'll inevitably get views based on how the team is playing right now. Some of the criticism is unwarranted (like Cuadrado being slated after 150 minutes of football) but mostly the players that are being criticised have been under performing for a while. Oscar for instance, hasn't had a good game in months. So when do we criticise any of them? If and only if these performances end up costing us the title in a season where we were everyone's favorites going in and most of our rivals have been poor? The title is nowhere close to wrapped up as it is.

 

As for people "pining for Mata", I think that's down to the lack of an alternate option to Oscar at the moment so people begin to question whether we should have sold both Mata and KDB, probably some of the same people who were praising our transfer business at the start of the season. For what its worth, I agreed with the sale of Mata and still do (KDB is a different matter though) but I do feel its unfair to say things like "Mata was not good enough to win the league" about a player who gave us some wonderful service without having anything close to same quality around him that Oscar currently does. 

And we could of won the league with Mata playing instead of Oscar. Guarantee Mata would have scored more goals and got more assits.

 

I don't think it's possible to Guarantee that seeing as we are dealing with hypothetical's.  Also, one thing I can "guarantee" is that Mata wasn't willing to put in the defensive shifts that Jose demands...Oscar does.  So, your Hypothetical's could just as easily be countered by me saying "I guarantee Mata would have been responsible for less tackles/pressing and as a result more goals conceded."

 

I'm not saying that he's the perfect Number 10, and I'm not advocating that we go into next season with he and he alone in that one position.  But it's silly to even bring up Mata as they're in different teams,a dn we're not going to go signing Mata back any time soon.

I just think a lot of posters have a "grass is always greener" mindset.

Mata's average Premier League finishing position is probably about 5th.

 

 

What, so it was Mata's fault that didn't finish higher in the league? Is the flip side that we won the Champions League because of him?

 

I do understand that Mata didn't fit in to how Mourinho wanted to play. Too much of a "luxury" player who didn't offer enough in certain areas. But if Mata had the luxury of playing alongside Matic, Fabregas and Costa, I'm sure his average league posiition would be a lot higher!!!

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by Nibs

What, so it was Mata's fault that didn't finish higher in the league? Is the flip side that we won the Champions League because of him?

 

I do understand that Mata didn't fit in to how Mourinho wanted to play. Too much of a "luxury" player who didn't offer enough in certain areas. But if Mata had the luxury of playing alongside Matic, Fabregas and Costa, I'm sure his average league posiition would be a lot higher!!!

 

No I'm not "blaming" Mata but highlighting that when he was at Chelsea and during his two seasons at Manchester United he's never been in a side that's come close to winning the league. 

 

There's a whole lot of looking backwards on this forum at the moment and Mata is one of the main players names who keeps coming up. 

 

The thing with the league is, it's probably the hardest competition to win out of the lot, Champions League included because you need to be at your best over 38 games, it's a slog and the ability to grind out results when performances are poor are what will get you over the line.... Champions League, you need a huge slice of luck along the way, same as any knock out competition. 

 

So what I'm saying is, as undoubtedly talented as Mata is, is he suitable to be a part of a title winning side in modern football where the demands of team pressing and tracking back are higher than ever? 

 

It's a small sample size I'll grant you but he's been lined up with some pretty good players at Chelsea and United but Mata hasn't been part of a team that's been able to deliver results consistently enough to challenge for the title. 

 

A Chelsea team without him, with a greater team work ethic has. So maybe we should be a little more grateful as a fan base to the players who have put us within touching distance of our first title success in 5 years? 

I don't think it's possible to Guarantee that seeing as we are dealing with hypothetical's.  Also, one thing I can "guarantee" is that Mata wasn't willing to put in the defensive shifts that Jose demands...Oscar does.  So, your Hypothetical's could just as easily be countered by me saying "I guarantee Mata would have been responsible for less tackles/pressing and as a result more goals conceded."

 

I'm not saying that he's the perfect Number 10, and I'm not advocating that we go into next season with he and he alone in that one position.  But it's silly to even bring up Mata as they're in different teams,a dn we're not going to go signing Mata back any time soon.

Don't agree with that. Mata did exactly what Jose asked of him, he tracked players, pressed and even made interceptions at times.

 

He just wasn't very good at it, which is completely different from saying he wasn't willing to. 

I just think a lot of posters have a "grass is always greener" mindset.

Mata's average Premier League finishing position is probably about 5th.

We're on course to win our first league title in 5 years and yet the way some of the team, Oscar in particular, are being spoken about you'd be excused for thinking that we're in a similar state to Sunderland right now.

The boys chipped in with more than a few goals and assists and is still very much in the beginning stages of his career but is still being subjected to some rather derogatory comments by the fans.

I just find it interesting that a team that is so close to winning the biggest prize is being so heftily criticised and scrutinised.

Should players be immune from criticism? Of course not but I just feel that some of it is over the top and for a team that is on the brink of achieving so much.

 

It's not about just chucking in some goals and assists. His performances have not been good enough, that's why he is being highly criticised.

 

And we haven't achieved it yet, I think that's a factor in everyone being a bit hod headed about things, tension is still high and we've got a good chance to go on and seal it and we just can't pull out a decent performance at all.

Oscar works harder but Mata is a far better footballer.

Hard workers are what Jose loves as we have seen with Willian and Ramires. We are missing that little 'spark' of magic from someone other than Hazard, Mata provides that while Oscar often fails to do so.

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by Chelsbear

Oscar works harder but Mata is a far better footballer.

 

 

A simple but accurate way of putting it!!

 

I know we need to move on. Never wanted Mata to leave but we got good money for him and there is no point dwelling on what might have been. That said, I don't see Oscar as the solution.

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by Nibs

For me it's simple, Matusis a better player, Oscar is a better player for mourinhos formula of playing.

he was excellent first half of the season, but once again has massively nosedived.

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by dkw

I don't think it's possible to Guarantee that seeing as we are dealing with hypothetical's.  Also, one thing I can "guarantee" is that Mata wasn't willing to put in the defensive shifts that Jose demands...Oscar does.  So, your Hypothetical's could just as easily be countered by me saying "I guarantee Mata would have been responsible for less tackles/pressing and as a result more goals conceded."

 

I'm not saying that he's the perfect Number 10, and I'm not advocating that we go into next season with he and he alone in that one position.  But it's silly to even bring up Mata as they're in different teams,a dn we're not going to go signing Mata back any time soon.

 

We had Mata playing as a number 10 for most of the 2012/2013 season and we had one of the best defensive record in the league and that was without Mourinho,Terry( didn't play many league games) and Matic like we have now. I feel if we had Mata now instead of Oscar we would still have one the best defensive records in the league plus we would have a better footballer who creates more and scores more goals.

We had Mata playing as a number 10 for most of the 2012/2013 season and we had one of the best defensive record in the league and that was without Mourinho,Terry( didn't play many league games) and Matic like we have now. I feel if we had Mata now instead of Oscar we would still have one the best defensive records in the league plus we would have a better footballer who creates more and scores more goals.

Yep,

but we didn't win the league.  We are in a strong position to do so this year, and I think that Oscar provides more to the overall philosophy of the "team" that Jose strives for.  That's all, really.  Not trying to dig Mata out per se, just tired of people viewing this team as being "better with Mata in it."  I think those discussions are an exercise in futility. 

Does anyone think that maybe Mata would be here if we had Matic at the same time?

 

I mean we haven't had cover like Matic since Essien in his prime or the incomparable Makelele.  I wonder if selling Mata was a decision based in large part that we needed a n10 who could track back because we didnt have a player(s) behind him capable of shutting down top sides.

 

If so, now that we do (and a top class mid capable of orchestrating the attack when playing deep or pushing up) does that mean that Mourinho might feel he can utilize a  more unbalanced n10 (more attack less trackback)?

 

Im curious to see how that plays out in the off season.

Does anyone think that maybe Mata would be here if we had Matic at the same time?

I mean we haven't had cover like Matic since Essien in his prime or the incomparable Makelele. I wonder if selling Mata was a decision based in large part that we needed a n10 who could track back because we didnt have a player(s) behind him capable of shutting down top sides.

If so, now that we do (and a top class mid capable of orchestrating the attack when playing deep or pushing up) does that mean that Mourinho might feel he can utilize a more unbalanced n10 (more attack less trackback)?

Im curious to see how that plays out in the off season.

Not really no.

Jose want’s bags of effort and tracking back to help when we are not in possession of the ball, Mata could never give that as it’s just not in his game. Matic while giving more solidness and in turn a bit more freedom for the attacking mid would still require them to track back and help out.

I do believe we would still be top of the table had Mata been kept here and been used when Oscar’s annual form going out the window after Christmas. The problem with that though is we wouldn’t have had £37 million to spend and in turn no Costa and/or Cesc.

As many have said no point looking back now but we must make sure we address the situation in the summer and at least bring someone in who can do a job in the no 10 role as we know Oscar has a habit of going off the boil.

^interesting point. We had a Rampard midfield playing mostly when Mata was here. But Mikel was was around too.

I don't think it would make a difference tbh, if Jose wanted Oscar to stay up and play more like a play traditional no.10, he would.

Does anyone think that maybe Mata would be here if we had Matic at the same time?

 

Maybe, but if we had I certainly can't imagine we would have bought Fabregas.

I would like to see Oscar playing just off Costa. Don't know how it would work with rest of the team shape, but he is a goal threat and his shooting is one of his standout attributes.

Edited March 17, 201511 yr by GhostOfDembaPast