I think both schurrle and willian are frustrating players. That's why I would swap one for rues. While there both here though I think its just a balancing act to play the one in form.

Willian has been pretty good this season, but he is starting to lose form, so I wouldn't mind seeing schurrle start a couple of games to see if he can pick some form up.

Schurrle is fast, direct, and has a wicked shot on him. Willian is an engine and keeps the ball. It would be cool to see them play together if Hazard gets rested.

It would be perfect if we could somehow blend them together and make a player out of their best attributes. Left overs would then be sold to Newcastle as the new Obertan.

Comes on for Willian, instantly makes a clear cut goal scoring opportunity for Costa which Willian couldn't do in his last 5-6 games.

 

This lad has to play rather than that overpaid workhorse.

 

To be fair to Willian the game was a lot more open at this point. More space to pick out passes.

I thought Schurrle was quite good against Stoke. Costa looked more lively in his presence and he set up his best shot for the game.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Schurrle doesn't start against West Ham but I'd like to see it happen though for the sake of his confidence and the fact that he's found a spring in his step in the last few games. 

Although he only played 45 mins he was incredibly frustrating today. It seems every touch he takes goes straight back and he offers us nothing going forward. I do like the guy but it seems he is only effective as an impact sub.

Although it taxes Willian, starting Schurrle was a mistake. He cut a forlorn figure. 

Something is not right with him, looks awful

There's possibly an argument to say that the lack of minutes is making it hard for him to find form and rhythm or that the illness is still affecting him and he's lacking fitness but he's horrendously inconsistent at the moment. Yanking him for Willian won't help that.

 

At his best he offers more than Willian but don't know if he'll ever get that for us.

Looked no worse than Willian has in recent weeks but for whatever reason didn't get the same benefit of doubt.

Hard to judge too much given that the whole side, bar Hazard, was devoid of any attacking intent.

Juan Mata was moved on for less.

Juan Mata was moved on for less.

 

Completely different players who offer different things to the team.

I like Schurrle but if we have the opportunity to get Reus then we MUST go in for him.

 

We would have the most frightening attack in the world with him in there.

Looked no worse than Willian has in recent weeks but for whatever reason didn't get the same benefit of doubt.

Hard to judge too much given that the whole side, bar Hazard, was devoid of any attacking intent.

Sorry but that's complete sh*t, Willian works for the team and offers us stability as was clear today when we kept the ball better in the second half.

Sorry but that's complete sh*t, Willian works for the team and offers us stability as was clear today when we kept the ball better in the second half.

Willian was the worst offender for cheaply giving the ball away in the second half and created nothing.

We played better in spite of him, not because of him.

Not sure how you are using an impotent attacking display to defend him.

Willian was the worst offender for cheaply giving the ball away in the second half and created nothing.

We played better in spite of him, not because of him.

Not sure how you are using an impotent attacking display to defend him.

Disagree completely, won the ball back plenty of times and gave us some stability we lacked in the first half.

Willian was the worst offender for cheaply giving the ball away in the second half and created nothing.

We played better in spite of him, not because of him.

Not sure how you are using an impotent attacking display to defend him.

 

 

I think we really need to watch a game together so I can get an Idea of what it is your not seeing with Willian.... and what it is I ... and Jose of course :) do see with him.

 

Willian offers the team so much even when of form, Andre is detrimential to the team when of form

So in the half of football today in which we failed to score, what was it that you felt our secret weapon did that was worthy of note?

Schurrle was pony today but I fail to see what Willian did to offer anything significant.

shirley played sh*t today, thats what jose thought as well, thats why he subbed him at halftime. shirley needs to make more of his opportunities or he will be on a plane back to germany.

willian increases energy and movement no end. 

So in the half of football today in which we failed to score, what was it that you felt our secret weapon did that was worthy of note?

Schurrle was pony today but I fail to see what Willian did to offer anything significant.

 

 

The difference, Im assuming is that you have Willian succeeding and failing based purely on his goals and assists.  Which most have already conceded that  he's pretty meh at. We deffinatly want more goals from him and I think it would turn him from a very good player in to a top top player. But Personaly, when Willian is in the team I feel the two in the middle get more support, I feel that the opposition defenders get less time on the ball, and actually I think he puts a pretty cross in to the box. I see him winning most 50/50's, is see him retain possession under a lot of pressure with great control and excellent ballance. That means that when he gets the ball in the middle of the park players arn't thinking twice before running beyond him because they are confident its coming back (not the case with Rami or Andre) I believe willian has great distribution, and if you care about making chances, apparently willian is right up there, I mean what is an assist other then a converted key pass. Willian for me is an extremely silky player who balances the team out beautifully. Does he have white line feaver, absaloutly. Is Alexi Sanchez better, very likely he is , but he doesn't play for us, Willian does and he's a dam fine footballer. 

 

I'm not going to lie and say that I don't hope every game he's going to put the ball in the back of the net and bag a hatrik, but after a season and half I think we can conclude it's probably not going to be the case. But I and many others see is how valubale he is to the team, and apparently so does Jose.

 

lets put it another way, if it had been Willian on instead of Andre in the first half and the perfrormance of the team had been identical, do you think Jose would have hooked Willian? My guess is absaloutly not because he trusts Willian to do his part for the team as a cog in an 11 man machine. He clearly wants to but can't quite bring him self to trust Andre

well said.

 

The difference, Im assuming is that you have Willian succeeding and failing based purely on his goals and assists.  Which most have already conceded that  he's pretty meh at. We deffinatly want more goals from him and I think it would turn him from a very good player in to a top top player. But Personaly, when Willian is in the team I feel the two in the middle get more support, I feel that the opposition defenders get less time on the ball, and actually I think he puts a pretty cross in to the box. I see him winning most 50/50's, is see him retain possession under a lot of pressure with great control and excellent ballance. That means that when he gets the ball in the middle of the park players arn't thinking twice before running beyond him because they are confident its coming back (not the case with Rami or Andre) I believe willian has great distribution, and if you care about making chances, apparently willian is right up there, I mean what is an assist other then a converted key pass. Willian for me is an extremely silky player who balances the team out beautifully. Does he have white line feaver, absaloutly. Is Alexi Sanchez better, very likely he is , but he doesn't play for us, Willian does and he's a dam fine footballer. 

 

I'm not going to lie and say that I don't hope every game he's going to put the ball in the back of the net and bag a hatrik, but after a season and half I think we can conclude it's probably not going to be the case. But I and many others see is how valubale he is to the team, and apparently so does Jose.

 

lets put it another way, if it had been Willian on instead of Andre in the first half and the perfrormance of the team had been identical, do you think Jose would have hooked Willian? My guess is absaloutly not because he trusts Willian to do his part for the team as a cog in an 11 man machine. He clearly wants to but can't quite bring him self to trust Andre

So in the half of football today in which we failed to score, what was it that you felt our secret weapon did that was worthy of note?

Schurrle was pony today but I fail to see what Willian did to offer anything significant.

Well a goal didn't come down from the right side of the pitch once Willain came on.  

 

When Willian came on we seemed capable of retaining the ball and in fact had a very healthy period of possession in the final third where I must of heard the announcer repeat 3 times "it looks a matter of when the goal will come and not if".  How many times did we have possession like that with Schurrle?

 

When Willian was on, we seemed to get the ball at the feet of CFC players in the Soton box with, sadly, the result many times being a slip and once a poorly denied penalty.  

 

Hey, speaking of which, did you like that sweep little through ball Willian played in the box for Fabregas which had Cesc beat the whole defense only for Cesc to slip?  Has Schurrle EVER played such a pass for a teammate instead of just taking a poor percentage shot?

 

And since you are insinuating that the goal came on the half Schurrle was playing, as if Schurrle had a role in getting it, what exactly did Schurrle do to contibute to that goal anymore than Willian who was on the bench? 

 

Or in all honestly just answer this question, as the only difference for a long time was Willian for Schurrle, did you not think the team played just on a whole other level better in the second half vs the first half?   Be honest now, because we all already know the answer. 

The difference, Im assuming is that you have Willian succeeding and failing based purely on his goals and assists.  Which most have already conceded that  he's pretty meh at. We deffinatly want more goals from him and I think it would turn him from a very good player in to a top top player. But Personaly, when Willian is in the team I feel the two in the middle get more support, I feel that the opposition defenders get less time on the ball, and actually I think he puts a pretty cross in to the box. I see him winning most 50/50's, is see him retain possession under a lot of pressure with great control and excellent ballance. That means that when he gets the ball in the middle of the park players arn't thinking twice before running beyond him because they are confident its coming back (not the case with Rami or Andre) I believe willian has great distribution, and if you care about making chances, apparently willian is right up there, I mean what is an assist other then a converted key pass. Willian for me is an extremely silky player who balances the team out beautifully. Does he have white line feaver, absaloutly. Is Alexi Sanchez better, very likely he is , but he doesn't play for us, Willian does and he's a dam fine footballer. 

 

I'm not going to lie and say that I don't hope every game he's going to put the ball in the back of the net and bag a hatrik, but after a season and half I think we can conclude it's probably not going to be the case. But I and many others see is how valubale he is to the team, and apparently so does Jose.

 

lets put it another way, if it had been Willian on instead of Andre in the first half and the perfrormance of the team had been identical, do you think Jose would have hooked Willian? My guess is absaloutly not because he trusts Willian to do his part for the team as a cog in an 11 man machine. He clearly wants to but can't quite bring him self to trust Andre

Brilliant post Barak. Completely agree.

I would add another crucial asset which is critical to his importance to the team. The angles he provides to team mates in possession. He is nearly always available! He gives them an out ball when sometimes, nothing else is on. Often this enables us to keep the ball moving, keep possession, retain our tempo. By contrast Schurrle may make a movement forward, a run into space, but if that run requires a team mate to play a miracle pass, an eye of the needle pass, which rarely comes off, it is not good movement. It is not great movement, it is not the right option to take for the player with the ball at his feet.

You hardly noticed Schurrle was on the field today and was a major reason why our midfield struggled, and failed, to dominate in the first half. Willian came on and the second period was virtually one way traffic in midfield. I see it, you see it, Jose sees it for sure. Quite a few on here don't and probably, never will.

Lots of posts to reply to so only picking out key points.

 

The difference, Im assuming is that you have Willian succeeding and failing based purely on his goals and assists.  Which most have already conceded that  he's pretty meh at. We deffinatly want more goals from him and I think it would turn him from a very good player in to a top top player. But Personaly, when Willian is in the team I feel the two in the middle get more support, I feel that the opposition defenders get less time on the ball, and actually I think he puts a pretty cross in to the box. I see him winning most 50/50's, is see him retain possession under a lot of pressure with great control and excellent ballance. That means that when he gets the ball in the middle of the park players arn't thinking twice before running beyond him because they are confident its coming back (not the case with Rami or Andre) I believe willian has great distribution, and if you care about making chances, apparently willian is right up there, I mean what is an assist other then a converted key pass. Willian for me is an extremely silky player who balances the team out beautifully. Does he have white line feaver, absaloutly. Is Alexi Sanchez better, very likely he is , but he doesn't play for us, Willian does and he's a dam fine footballer. 

 

I'm not going to lie and say that I don't hope every game he's going to put the ball in the back of the net and bag a hatrik, but after a season and half I think we can conclude it's probably not going to be the case. But I and many others see is how valubale he is to the team, and apparently so does Jose.

 

lets put it another way, if it had been Willian on instead of Andre in the first half and the perfrormance of the team had been identical, do you think Jose would have hooked Willian? My guess is absaloutly not because he trusts Willian to do his part for the team as a cog in an 11 man machine. He clearly wants to but can't quite bring him self to trust Andre

 

I don't judge Willian purely on goals and assists no but as an attacking player that is obviously something you want to see him contributing which historically he does very little of. 9 times out of 10 with Willian what I see is a player running around a lot, playing short passes but not really looking to take on the responsibility of trying winning a game himself.... Or having poor decision making in key areas/situations when it comes to passes/when to release the ball.

 

Would Jose have hooked Willian, well based on the last few games when Willian has been the worst player on the pitch, then no but for better or worse we all know Jose has his favourites and will play certain players regardless of form or contribution to a match.

 

Well a goal didn't come down from the right side of the pitch once Willain came on.  

 

When Willian came on we seemed capable of retaining the ball and in fact had a very healthy period of possession in the final third where I must of heard the announcer repeat 3 times "it looks a matter of when the goal will come and not if".  How many times did we have possession like that with Schurrle?

 

When Willian was on, we seemed to get the ball at the feet of CFC players in the Soton box with, sadly, the result many times being a slip and once a poorly denied penalty.  

 

Hey, speaking of which, did you like that sweep little through ball Willian played in the box for Fabregas which had Cesc beat the whole defense only for Cesc to slip?  Has Schurrle EVER played such a pass for a teammate instead of just taking a poor percentage shot?

 

And since you are insinuating that the goal came on the half Schurrle was playing, as if Schurrle had a role in getting it, what exactly did Schurrle do to contibute to that goal anymore than Willian who was on the bench? 

 

Or in all honestly just answer this question, as the only difference for a long time was Willian for Schurrle, did you not think the team played just on a whole other level better in the second half vs the first half?   Be honest now, because we all already know the answer. 

 

Not insinuating that Schurrle contributed anything to our goal, I've said more than once on here since the game he was sh*t today but I'm failing to see where all this praise for Willian is coming from in a half of football where we didn't even force their keeper into a save? All well and good having more of the ball but what use is that if no one sticks it in the onion bag?

 

So Schurrle's not played a through ball? Okay but have you ever seen Willian hit a trick? Different strengths and weaknesses obviously... I personally, prefer Schurrle's attacking strengths. 

 

Yes the overall performance improved in the 2nd half but it's not exactly the first time that's ever happened with Mourinho in charge is it, regardless of making a change I'm sure he had a few choice words for pretty much the whole team. As for the goal coming down "Schurrle's side" if Cahill doesn't rush into no man's land and Terry doesn't decide to wrongly attempt to play the offside trap then the goal might have been avoided, nothing to do with Schurrle that one, just poor defending. 

 

Brilliant post Barak. Completely agree.

I would add another crucial asset which is critical to his importance to the team. The angles he provides to team mates in possession. He is nearly always available! He gives them an out ball when sometimes, nothing else is on. Often this enables us to keep the ball moving, keep possession, retain our tempo. By contrast Schurrle may make a movement forward, a run into space, but if that run requires a team mate to play a miracle pass, an eye of the needle pass, which rarely comes off, it is not good movement. It is not great movement, it is not the right option to take for the player with the ball at his feet.

You hardly noticed Schurrle was on the field today and was a major reason why our midfield struggled, and failed, to dominate in the first half. Willian came on and the second period was virtually one way traffic in midfield. I see it, you see it, Jose sees it for sure. Quite a few on here don't and probably, never will.

 

The flip side to this argument is, what point is making yourself available to play ball to feet if all it's going to result in is another sideways pass to nowhere?

 

You need players making runs off of the ball to stretch defenses or else it's much easier as a defense to get into position and create two banks of four and as we saw today for all the pretty passing and possession if the right out ball isn't there then it's all for nothing.

Has Schurrle EVER played such a pass for a teammate instead of just taking a poor percentage shot?

 

 

Yes. For Costa about 5 minutes after coming on against Stoke.

 

You hardly noticed Schurrle was on the field today and was a major reason why our midfield struggled, and failed, to dominate in the first half. Willian came on and the second period was virtually one way traffic in midfield. I see it, you see it, Jose sees it for sure. Quite a few on here don't and probably, never will.

 

Massively patronising post. Willian is a tidy player but offers very little in terms of incisiveness. In fact I'd say he's a massively wasteful player given the amount of times he is put into a decent position. If you want to talk about out-balls then singling him out above Ivanovic, Oscar or Fabregas seems a little disingenuous.

 

Obviously people will twist the 'facts' to suit their argument but as it is neither is the whole solution. Willian seems to be playing closer to his full potential and should be commended for that, but his full potential really is nothing special at all either in defence or attack. Schurrle on the other hand is playing way below potential, but on top-form he offers so much more to us. He's a proper match-winner but either the illness or the lack of minutes (less than Luis in the league) seems to have made him take a step back.