28 minutes ago, didierforever said:

 

Winning and managerial stability are 2 different things. Infact, whose to say that with better managerial stability and more trust, we might win things every year rather than 2 years.

Anyways, my only point of issue is, that people give "reasons"/"excuses" for our managerial merry go round, yet absolve the only common denominator of all blame (the board).

For eg, our board: Jose wanted a CB and a CM (Stones and Pogba) after winning the league. Another year and a 10th position later, Conte wanted a CB and a CM (luiz and Kante, 2 of our most influential players last year). How someone can say Jose lost the plot is beyond me, because it seems his diagnosis for the squad was spot on (hell, we even bought a LB who was not Baba, another position that Jose wanted) while saying no one else is to be blamed.  

Not getting your targets is not an excuse to then go on to fight relegation. Poch isn't getting his targets, Klopp has identified 2 player's to take Liverpool to the next level and guess what? neither are starting the season as Liverpool player's, yet do you see those two having breakdown's and lashing out at club staff/players? 

Luiz and Kante are 2 of our most influental player's yes, but both were not Antonio's first picks, so maybe if Jose offered up some plan b's instead of insisting Stones and Pogba or bust? 

Im not saying the board should go without blame but they shouldn't be blamed for manager's making tactical and management error's, that's on them and only them.

16 minutes ago, Argo said:

Not getting your targets is not an excuse to then go on to fight relegation. Poch isn't getting his targets, Klopp has identified 2 player's to take Liverpool to the next level and guess what? neither are starting the season as Liverpool player's, yet do you see those two having breakdown's and lashing out at club staff/players? 

Luiz and Kante are 2 of our most influental player's yes, but both were not Antonio's first picks, so maybe if Jose offered up some plan b's instead of insisting Stones and Pogba or bust? 

Im not saying the board should go without blame but they shouldn't be blamed for manager's making tactical and management error's, that's on them and only them.

Where exactly are you getting the STONES/POGBA or Bust theory? 

Poch/Klopp are not fighting for the league title. Infact, those teams are more than happy to be just in top 4.

I am not absolving Jose of the blame here. But our 17th position was not JUST his fault. The board were as much to blame as were the players who sinisterly under-performed.

39 minutes ago, didierforever said:

 

I am not absolving Jose of the blame here.

I meant fans in general do (try and absolve manager's), Ranieri at Leicester another example, he totally changes the style to something the player's can't play and apparently Leicester should just accept that alongside the inevitable relegation that was coming with it because of one great achievement. Then when it backfired apparently every one was at fault apart from him.

39 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Where exactly are you getting the STONES/POGBA or Bust theory? 

Last summer we were linked with numerous CB's, Bonucci, Rudiger, Koulibaly, Maksimovic before eventually "settling" for Luiz. 2015 we had no serious link's outside Stones. I can never prove it but it's an educated guess from what i read/heard that i believe Jose had no plan for Stones falling through, whereas Antonio did re Koulibaly and judging by the links with Ox, Cancelo, Aurier, Candreva he has plan's right down to Z if the Sandro chase hits a end.

39 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Poch/Klopp are not fighting for the league title. Infact, those teams are more than happy to be just in top 4.

A manager like Klopp has not come to make up the numbers. You don't finish 4th then attempt to smash your transfer record twice just to aim for same again, whether he does is another thing but make no mistake he's here to win the league. Poch won't want to merely challenge for top 4 after 2 nearish misses, the only way he can now better what he's already done is by winning it.

39 minutes ago, didierforever said:

I am not absolving Jose of the blame here. But our 17th position was not JUST his fault. The board were as much to blame as were the players who sinisterly under-performed.

Player's and the board can maybe be blamed for dropping 4 places, the other 11? All on Jose, those 5 month's are by some distance the worst work by a PL manager ever. If some rookie came in and did that he would be in a PL hall of fame for all the wrong reason's alongside Ali Dia.

Edited August 10, 20178 yr by Argo

Shearer on BBC is quoted as saying "something bad is brewing at Chelsea". His opinion, not any facts but kind of feels that way. 

Lets hope we're wrong. 

3 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Shearer on BBC is quoted as saying "something bad is brewing at Chelsea". His opinion, not any facts but kind of feels that way. 

Lets hope we're wrong. 

There a general air of negativity coming out of the club at the moment, especially after the sale of Matic. 

Bring in a couple of decent transfers and a good result on Saturday and the mood will quickly change. 

Shearer on BBC is quoted as saying "something bad is brewing at Chelsea". His opinion, not any facts but kind of feels that way. 
Lets hope we're wrong. 

It's clearly obvious their is a major problem within the club, how long it last and what the final outcome is will determine what happens to our season

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Not getting your targets is not an excuse to then go on to fight relegation. Poch isn't getting his targets, Klopp has identified 2 player's to take Liverpool to the next level and guess what? neither are starting the season as Liverpool player's, yet do you see those two having breakdown's and lashing out at club staff/players? 

Luiz and Kante are 2 of our most influental player's yes, but both were not Antonio's first picks, so maybe if Jose offered up some plan b's instead of insisting Stones and Pogba or bust? 

Im not saying the board should go without blame but they shouldn't be blamed for manager's making tactical and management error's, that's on them and only them.

How do you know Mourinho insisted on Stone and Pogba alone and nobody else?

Continuous spending like a mid table club coupled with impossibly high expectations of winning the league and challenging in Europe will eventually result in only one thing - no decent football manager worth his salt would bother take up the job at Chelsea.  

21 minutes ago, lchk said:

Continuous spending like a mid table club coupled with impossibly high expectations of winning the league and challenging in Europe will eventually result in only one thing - no decent football manager worth his salt would bother take up the job at Chelsea.  

I can think of millions of reasons why they would.

22 minutes ago, lchk said:

Continuous spending like a mid table club coupled with impossibly high expectations of winning the league and challenging in Europe will eventually result in only one thing - no decent football manager worth his salt would bother take up the job at Chelsea.  

Wrong.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I meant fans in general do (try and absolve manager's), Ranieri at Leicester another example, he totally changes the style to something the player's can't play and apparently Leicester should just accept that alongside the inevitable relegation that was coming with it because of one great achievement. Then when it backfired apparently every one was at fault apart from him.

Last summer we were linked with numerous CB's, Bonucci, Rudiger, Koulibaly, Maksimovic before eventually "settling" for Luiz. 2015 we had no serious link's outside Stones. I can never prove it but it's an educated guess from what i read/heard that i believe Jose had no plan for Stones falling through, whereas Antonio did re Koulibaly and judging by the links with Ox, Cancelo, Aurier, Candreva he has plan's right down to Z if the Sandro chase hits a end.

A manager like Klopp has not come to make up the numbers. You don't finish 4th then attempt to smash your transfer record twice just to aim for same again, whether he does is another thing but make no mistake he's here to win the league. Poch won't want to merely challenge for top 4 after 2 nearish misses, the only way he can now better what he's already done is by winning it.

Player's and the board can maybe be blamed for dropping 4 places, the other 11? All on Jose, those 5 month's are by some distance the worst work by a PL manager ever. If some rookie came in and did that he would be in a PL hall of fame for all the wrong reason's alongside Ali Dia.

I seem to have a completely different outlook from yours. I feel the board is protected way too much. Fans who express their discontentment with the board are either said to be spoilt fans or glory hunters. Atleast on this forum. While you are quite right with your example, I did not see any significant change in style/play for that example to be applicable in Jose's case.

We are linked with every tom, dick and harry. Hell, I remember us getting linked with some Charles Aranguiz during that window. Have not heard a single thing about him since then. In fact, I would like to point out the similarity between our last 3 summer transfer windows.

2015-16: Manager wants CM, CB, LB. Board chases after Stones and Pogba through out the transfer window, Gets baba rahman after been embarassed by city 3-0. and gets a certain papy djibodji, michael hector and matt miazga to play with.

2016-17: Manager wants CB, LB, CM. Board chases after Koulibaly through out the transfer window, panic buys Alonso and Luiz, both of whom turn out to be great. By the way, go back to the end of the last summer's transfer window and see the reaction of fans for those transfers. I want to say, the board got "lucky".

2017-18: Manager wants LWB, RWB, CM, CB and general squad depth. We get CM but sell of our depth (foolishly). We have bought a good CB. Are yet to be any nearer to getting the rest. By the way, chase Sandro, Mendy, apparently by Conte's comments Walker, Danilo, yet cant buy any one. 

I would say our board has screwed the pooch. But I dont think they have been held accountable enough. 

Klopp might be trying to win it, but he knows even if he does not, he is not getting the sack. Conte on the other hand has no such assurances.

Again, I just cant agree on it. Our 17th position was a combination of Jose not changing players (Ivanovic, Cesc), not changing tactics (stuck with that bloody 4-2-3-1, hate this formation), players being tired/carrying knocks (hazard), players playing sub-par/out-of-form (Costa [i would not be at all surprised if he performed sub-par on purpose], cesc), Players losing all confidence (Matic), poor/terrible transfer window (out of the 20 PL teams, I would have ranked our window dead last), Jose's Eva antics etc.

Our 17th position, just cant be down to one person. It was a collective failure on all fronts and yet the only person who got fired was Jose.   

1 hour ago, lchk said:

Continuous spending like a mid table club coupled with impossibly high expectations of winning the league and challenging in Europe will eventually result in only one thing - no decent football manager worth his salt would bother take up the job at Chelsea.  

I do hope he's wrong. 

41 minutes ago, Stim said:

I can think of millions of reasons why they would.

This is true. Check David Moyes. I think he's only in it for ManUtd for money and glamour. Something to make his CV look beautiful

 

43 minutes ago, lchk said:

How do you know Mourinho insisted on Stone and Pogba alone and nobody else?

Educated guess from what i read/heard that summer.

15 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Again, I just cant agree on it. Our 17th position was a combination of Jose not changing players (Ivanovic, Cesc), not changing tactics (stuck with that bloody 4-2-3-1, hate this formation), players being tired/carrying knocks (hazard), players playing sub-par/out-of-form (Costa [i would not be at all surprised if he performed sub-par on purpose], cesc), Players losing all confidence (Matic), poor/terrible transfer window (out of the 20 PL teams, I would have ranked our window dead last), Jose's Eva antics etc.

Our 17th position, just cant be down to one person. It was a collective failure on all fronts and yet the only person who got fired was Jose.   

And what was the main cause of Eden and co being tired? Jose overplaying them for 2 year's and refusing to rotate, in the case of Eden wouldn't even sub him at a comfortable lead. He squeezed every last ounce of mental energy from the lads to bring the title home the next season they just snapped and were totally exhausted, then Jose brought more drama to the door with Eva gate and his rambling's and a bunch of already mentally drained player's couldn't cope with the added drama and pressure and it accumulated in that sh*tshow. Physical tiredness can often be covered up with energy boost's and adrenaline, mental tiredness however there's no way round that you have to recover in your own time, i remember when i went to SB for the 1-3 Pool game and i didn't see a lack of effort, i saw a group of player's running on low if not no fuel, Hazard especially looked totally broken, i left that game genuinely concerned about the player's mental health (i was already concerned about Jose in that regard, still am). Jose was a great manager for us, but the sheer extent of just how bad that season got is on him and the more i think about it (i try not to)  i get more stronger in that belief. That season was doomed for failure from the off, Stones, Pogba arriving wouldn't have saved it, neither would Drogba or Cech staying (some reckon there dressing room infulence may have saved thing's).

32 minutes ago, didierforever said:

I seem to have a completely different outlook from yours. I feel the board is protected way too much. Fans who express their discontentment with the board are either said to be spoilt fans or glory hunters. Atleast on this forum. While you are quite right with your example, I did not see any significant change in style/play for that example to be applicable in Jose's case.

I think the spoilt line is reserved for people who never say anything positive and will jump on any excuse to furfill an agenda, for example last season (cant remember if it was here or Talk Chelsea) some sh*tty twitter link with 50 followers said Kante was going to City about a week before we signed him and someone responded to that tweet by giving an explicit 3 paragraph rant about how "pathetic" the club is. Or another example is someone who invaded the match thread's second half of last season and claimed the wheels are falling off everytime we were on term's or worse after half an hour, or the people that jump on Hazard's thread saying he has a sh*t mentality after he doesn't have a 10/10 game but still create's loads of chances/inroads for the side, ala Anfield in January.

I don't think anyone has an issue with constructive criticism, but it often goes way, way further than that and that's were i have the issue, it's why i rarely post board criticism myself, my negative board thought's are covered and exaggerated x 1000.

47 minutes ago, dkw said:

Wrong.

I don't think he is totally wrong. I have been concerned at the rate we have gone through the top managers. What will happen eventually is no one to turn to as we've gone though them and then we will have to look inward like Barca, Real, Juve and the rest of the elite have done in recent years. That's when we will have the managers that some might consider as not top level. Maybe tier 2 or 3. Such as Brendan Rogers who i personally feel after his Scottish sojourn will come back to England and will probably manage Chelsea in his next 2 english club jobs. Its not what i want by any means but the churn of top managers by our club makes this a very real possibility.

2 minutes ago, abister1 said:

I don't think he is totally wrong. I have been concerned at the rate we have gone through the top managers. What will happen eventually is no one to turn to as we've gone though them and then we will have to look inward like Barca, Real, Juve and the rest of the elite have done in recent years. That's when we will have the managers that some might consider as not top level. Maybe tier 2 or 3. Such as Brendan Rogers who i personally feel after his Scottish sojourn will come back to England and will probably manage Chelsea in his next 2 english club jobs. Its not what i want by any means but the churn of top managers by our club makes this a very real possibility.

Manager's have nothing to lose by taking the Chelsea job, even if you screw up and get sacked the media will blame it on either Roman having "no patience"  or the player's "downing tools". 

We're just starting this season as reigning champions yet this forum is all doom and gloom. What is wrong with you all?

We're just starting this season as reigning champions yet this forum is all doom and gloom. What is wrong with you all?

Blame the board

1 minute ago, Brutos said:

1 hour ago, undertow said:

We're just starting this season as reigning champions yet this forum is all doom and gloom. What is wrong with you all?

Blame the board

I usually blame human nature but I'm open to compromise. How about we blame Kenyon? That used to work so well.

1 hour ago, undertow said:

We're just starting this season as reigning champions yet this forum is all doom and gloom. What is wrong with you all?

Surely you can understand why people are frustrated, it's not the first time we have been in this position. This is the third time in a row that we are starting the season with a weakened squad after winning a league title. We have sold or loaned out 12 first team players since January (14 when Baker and Costa go) and still haven't bought in enough replacements. We were all expecting numbers to be added at the end of last season, but we are in a position where the bench will mostly be youngsters and players who have had poor season's out on loan. We also have a CM that Conte really doesn't want to have to rely on. We all know Fabregas is a great footballer, but in a 2 man midfield it's a disaster waiting to happen. If this was July 1st, i wouldn't be as concerned, but we are two days off from the league season beginning, there is no way the board should have allowed things to get into this position.

You are asking what is wrong with the fans, well maybe you should ask the manager too because he is clearly just as concerned as we are. We are staring the season as league Champions, but this is the worst squad we are starting the season with in the Abramovich era ( in terms of squad depth at least ) and with a tough start and without our key player for the early stages too.

I've said it time and time again at the Dawn of a new season, i wished the Chelsea hierarchy would talk to us fans, and clarify the Board and Romans wishes and expectations for the coming season, would kill a lot of this Negative vibe....

They can't it's a game of cat and mouse in negotiations with other clubs.

I remember us fans angrily confronting Ian Porterfield up North at one away match about Jason Cundy being sold. He said some thing like he couldn't tell us why but that we would understand in the long term.

It didn't make sense at the time yet with hindsight he was right, Cundy's career went downhill.

 

7 hours ago, Stim said:

I can think of millions of reasons why they would.

Such as?

6 hours ago, Tibbers said:

This is true. Check David Moyes. I think he's only in it for ManUtd for money and glamour. Something to make his CV look beautiful

 

David Moyes wasn't a decent manager.

9 hours ago, Argo said:

Educated guess from what i read/heard that summer.

And what was the main cause of Eden and co being tired? Jose overplaying them for 2 year's and refusing to rotate, in the case of Eden wouldn't even sub him at a comfortable lead. He squeezed every last ounce of mental energy from the lads to bring the title home the next season they just snapped and were totally exhausted, then Jose brought more drama to the door with Eva gate and his rambling's and a bunch of already mentally drained player's couldn't cope with the added drama and pressure and it accumulated in that sh*tshow. Physical tiredness can often be covered up with energy boost's and adrenaline, mental tiredness however there's no way round that you have to recover in your own time, i remember when i went to SB for the 1-3 Pool game and i didn't see a lack of effort, i saw a group of player's running on low if not no fuel, Hazard especially looked totally broken, i left that game genuinely concerned about the player's mental health (i was already concerned about Jose in that regard, still am). Jose was a great manager for us, but the sheer extent of just how bad that season got is on him and the more i think about it (i try not to)  i get more stronger in that belief. That season was doomed for failure from the off, Stones, Pogba arriving wouldn't have saved it, neither would Drogba or Cech staying (some reckon there dressing room infulence may have saved thing's).

I think the spoilt line is reserved for people who never say anything positive and will jump on any excuse to furfill an agenda, for example last season (cant remember if it was here or Talk Chelsea) some sh*tty twitter link with 50 followers said Kante was going to City about a week before we signed him and someone responded to that tweet by giving an explicit 3 paragraph rant about how "pathetic" the club is. Or another example is someone who invaded the match thread's second half of last season and claimed the wheels are falling off everytime we were on term's or worse after half an hour, or the people that jump on Hazard's thread saying he has a sh*t mentality after he doesn't have a 10/10 game but still create's loads of chances/inroads for the side, ala Anfield in January.

I don't think anyone has an issue with constructive criticism, but it often goes way, way further than that and that's were i have the issue, it's why i rarely post board criticism myself, my negative board thought's are covered and exaggerated x 1000.

Fair enough on board points.