3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Doesn't appear to know how to swing a game in our favour once we go behind or we're struggling to score a goal. 

Honest question because I cannot remember, have we won any games this season having come back from a losing position? 

Last night was frustrating with the substitutes for me. So many of Sarri's subs are like for like. I'm not sure what the Willian/Pedro sub was supposed to achieve?

We needed a goal and so Barkley (a goal scoring midfielder) was subbed off for Kovacic who hasn't scored once this season... I struggle to follow the logic. 

I take your wider point, but I think getting Barkley off the pitch in any way was worth it after the performance he put in. 

16 minutes ago, atomis said:

Eden playing false 9 is in no shape or form a plan b, its a necessaty cuz the board saw fit to go and get that top 4 with no strikers to speak of. Plan b is different formation, a surprise tactic, take a punt etc. We have seen nothing close to a plan b and lots of like for like subs. Will only make his job harder this.

Yep, definitely not a plan B - it's simply an adaptation of plan A.

Playing with two up top, a second striker, or one extra attacking midfielder would be a plan B.

Edited January 9, 20197 yr by the special one

1 hour ago, atomis said:

Eden playing false 9 is in no shape or form a plan b, its a necessaty cuz the board saw fit to go and get that top 4 with no strikers to speak of. Plan b is different formation, a surprise tactic, take a punt etc. We have seen nothing close to a plan b and lots of like for like subs. Will only make his job harder this.

Which other top clubs show a plan B successfully then? I don't know many. Most end up remaining with the same tactics/style over the course of a season. Football is about small margins, you are not going to put in 10/10 performances every game (even the best clubs don't do that) and not having a striker doesn't help at all for a system based on putting away chances created. Having no striker is only going to hinder the style of play. People expect miracles after 4 months in charge. At the moment we are where we should be. Pochettino, Klopp, Pep have all been in charge of their sides for longer and have players who know well the coach's ideology.

Let's be honest, on paper Utd have probably got an equal or if not better team than us too. The reason the results aren't going our way this season has been a culmination of the league being a lot more competitive this season, poor officiating, no striker, and simply Sarri trying to make fundamental changes to the team's ideas. With Conte and Mourinho, both were similar in ideas, but Sarri is the opposite and similar to Pep. I don't believe Pep would have done any better with our current team this season tbh.

Edited January 9, 20197 yr by enigma

26 minutes ago, enigma said:

Which other top clubs show a plan B successfully then? I don't know many. Most end up remaining with the same tactics/style over the course of a season. Football is about small margins, you are not going to put in 10/10 performances every game (even the best clubs don't do that) and not having a striker doesn't help at all for a system based on putting away chances created. Having no striker is only going to hinder the style of play. People expect miracles after 4 months in charge. At the moment we are where we should be. Pochettino, Klopp, Pep have all been in charge of their sides for longer and have players who know well the coach's ideology.

Let's be honest, on paper Utd have probably got an equal or if not better team than us too. The reason the results aren't going our way this season has been a culmination of the league being a lot more competitive this season, poor officiating, no striker, and simply Sarri trying to make fundamental changes to the team's ideas. With Conte and Mourinho, both were similar in ideas, but Sarri is the opposite and similar to Pep. I don't believe Pep would have done any better with our current team this season tbh.

There's a good article on how many formations Pep used in his first season at City. He clearly had a good look at his squad and how to utilise them( not always to his advantage),

https://www.squawka.com/en/news/formation-pep-guardiola-manchester-city/928895#sDYTKXs7LhRcc1Xt.97

20 minutes ago, enigma said:

Which other top clubs show a plan B successfully then? I don't know many. Most end up remaining with the same tactics/style over the course of a season. Football is about small margins, you are not going to put in 10/10 performances every game (even the best clubs don't do that) and not having a striker doesn't help at all for a system based on putting away chances created. Having no striker is only going to hinder the style of play. People expect miracles after 4 months in charge. At the moment we are where we should be. Pochettino, Klopp, Pep have all been in charge of their sides for longer and have players who know well the coach's ideology.

Let's be honest, on paper Utd have probably got an equal or if not better team than us too. The reason the results aren't going our way this season has been a culmination of the league being a lot more competitive this season, poor officiating, no striker, and simply Sarri trying to make fundamental changes to the team's ideas. With Conte and Mourinho, both were similar in ideas, but Sarri is the opposite and similar to Pep. I don't believe Pep would have done any better with our current team this season tbh.

Got some fair points.....and believe me I know the board handicapped Sarii big time here. But still Sarii has shown no plan b. Subs are always like for like.....formation remains the same whether we are ahead or losing.....Theres no surprise element to shock the opponent. Managers know how we will set up and play game in game out. He takes no risks at all like taking a defender off for an attacker etc. It will be a very hard learning curve if he isnt willing to see that we must mix it up.....a good general uses all the tools that he has, he will try to go different routes. I think pep would have done certain things better, but im still Sarii in, even if he persist with average and our of form players, even when we keep playing slow boring footy ( last night we were good though ).

32 minutes ago, atomis said:

Got some fair points.....and believe me I know the board handicapped Sarii big time here. But still Sarii has shown no plan b. Subs are always like for like.....formation remains the same whether we are ahead or losing.....Theres no surprise element to shock the opponent. Managers know how we will set up and play game in game out. He takes no risks at all like taking a defender off for an attacker etc. It will be a very hard learning curve if he isnt willing to see that we must mix it up.....a good general uses all the tools that he has, he will try to go different routes. I think pep would have done certain things better, but im still Sarii in, even if he persist with average and our of form players, even when we keep playing slow boring footy ( last night we were good though ).

Surprises to shock the opponents ?  Your mind still stay in Mourinho and Conte era . 

3 minutes ago, Master&Commander said:

Surprises to shock the opponents ?  Your mind still stay in Mourinho and Conte era . 

What are you trying to say exactly? even if I understood you right, what is wrong with that? Im sure predictable tactics is all dandy in your world. And show a bit respect for 2 men who won us many titles, no matter how much you might hate them now.

Edited January 9, 20197 yr by atomis

32 minutes ago, Master&Commander said:

Surprises to shock the opponents ?  Your mind still stay in Mourinho and Conte era . 

Tbf we won 2-1 at Watford in 2016 after Conte went 2 up top with Batshuayi/Costa in the remaining 10/15 minutes from 1-1 (I think maybe it was 4-2-4?). That's what I think of as a plan B, it doesn't need to be a radical or continual change of formation. Anyway that's where I feel Conte is better than Sarri, maybe it's because he was an ex footballer idk

Edited January 9, 20197 yr by the special one

14 minutes ago, the special one said:

Tbf we won 2-1 at Watford in 2016 after Conte went 2 up top with Batshuayi/Costa in the remaining 10/15 minutes from 0-1. That's what I think of as a plan B, it doesn't need to be a radical or continual change of formation. Anyway that's where I feel Conte is better than Sarri, maybe it's because he was an ex footballer idk

Exactly one of my points.....take a chance here and there.

1 hour ago, enigma said:

Which other top clubs show a plan B successfully then? I don't know many. Most end up remaining with the same tactics/style over the course of a season. Football is about small margins, you are not going to put in 10/10 performances every game (even the best clubs don't do that) and not having a striker doesn't help at all for a system based on putting away chances created. Having no striker is only going to hinder the style of play. People expect miracles after 4 months in charge. At the moment we are where we should be. Pochettino, Klopp, Pep have all been in charge of their sides for longer and have players who know well the coach's ideology.

Let's be honest, on paper Utd have probably got an equal or if not better team than us too. The reason the results aren't going our way this season has been a culmination of the league being a lot more competitive this season, poor officiating, no striker, and simply Sarri trying to make fundamental changes to the team's ideas. With Conte and Mourinho, both were similar in ideas, but Sarri is the opposite and similar to Pep. I don't believe Pep would have done any better with our current team this season tbh.

So we don’t have a finisher which we all agree with, so why is Sarri insistent on playing this possession based game that relies on a finisher to put away the chances created? Your words not mine.

This is what is meant by plan b, or working with the players at your disposal.

8 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Doesn't appear to know how to swing a game in our favour once we go behind or we're struggling to score a goal. 

Honest question because I cannot remember, have we won any games this season having come back from a losing position? 

Last night was frustrating with the substitutes for me. So many of Sarri's subs are like for like. I'm not sure what the Willian/Pedro sub was supposed to achieve?

We needed a goal and so Barkley (a goal scoring midfielder) was subbed off for Kovacic who hasn't scored once this season... I struggle to follow the logic. 

Liverpool  Away in the Cup, went behind to sturridge goal, then Emerson and a worldie from Hazard for 2-1

2 hours ago, shedpensioner said:

So we don’t have a finisher which we all agree with, so why is Sarri insistent on playing this possession based game that relies on a finisher to put away the chances created? Your words not mine.

This is what is meant by plan b, or working with the players at your disposal.

Lackness of a finisher isn't the only problem. You need a set of players to fit this system, otherwise you didn't sign Sarri, but another manager. Sarri with different way of football isn't Sarri. 

6 minutes ago, Raff_Sarrista said:

Lackness of a finisher isn't the only problem. You need a set of players to fit this system, otherwise you didn't sign Sarri, but another manager. Sarri with different way of football isn't Sarri. 

I refuse to believe he is that 1 dimentional.......from the worst managers to the best ones, most of them show insight. Sarii wont survive if its one way only.....unless the Club gives him lost and lots of Cash for the right players. Footy has become too congested and focused on money making to solely rely on 1 system and 1 system only no matter the players you have.

I like it when he speaks. He’s never over the top, never emotional and comes out with blatant bullsh*t. 

He’s calm, makes valid points and speaks with intelligence with evidence to back up what he’s saying. Doesn’t seem to throw his players under the bus either like our previous Don. 

Hopefully we add a few more pieces to his puzzle in January, keep building in the summer and give him a proper pre-season with his squad.

1 hour ago, atomis said:

I refuse to believe he is that 1 dimentional.......from the worst managers to the best ones, most of them show insight. Sarii wont survive if its one way only.....unless the Club gives him lost and lots of Cash for the right players. Footy has become too congested and focused on money making to solely rely on 1 system and 1 system only no matter the players you have.

It depends on what you mean for 1 dimensional. He will always try to dominate possession and to play in the opposite half, this will never change for him and, at now, this is the problem with these players who could do better playing lower on the pitch. 

21 minutes ago, Raff_Sarrista said:

It depends on what you mean for 1 dimensional. He will always try to dominate possession and to play in the opposite half, this will never change for him and, at now, this is the problem with these players who could do better playing lower on the pitch. 

Yup.....many of these players are either not suited or will be gone summer time. Might as well play to your strenghts but its a mute point anyway, as you say he wont change, or rather cant change. We need that top 4 to build properly this summer.

2 hours ago, atomis said:

Yup.....many of these players are either not suited or will be gone summer time. Might as well play to your strenghts but its a mute point anyway, as you say he wont change, or rather cant change. We need that top 4 to build properly this summer.

Because going all pragmatic and then restarting the project after a few signings may sound the right thing to do on paper but in practice it's not that simple, if he did that players will subconsciously revert to the comfort zone and won't fully commit to the restart.

If we are serious about heading down this route then we need to accept the growing pains that come with it and that's not just with us, that goes for any team that want a change of direction like this.

 Chelsea's total of 44 points is the joint highest for a fourth-placed team at this stage.

15 hours ago, atomis said:

Yup.....many of these players are either not suited or will be gone summer time. Might as well play to your strenghts but its a mute point anyway, as you say he wont change, or rather cant change. We need that top 4 to build properly this summer.

We were playing to these so called "strengths" last season and finished 5th.

12 hours ago, Argo said:

Because going all pragmatic and then restarting the project after a few signings may sound the right thing to do on paper but in practice it's not that simple, if he did that players will subconsciously revert to the comfort zone and won't fully commit to the restart.

If we are serious about heading down this route then we need to accept the growing pains that come with it and that's not just with us, that goes for any team that want a change of direction like this.

I said weeks ago we can only bide the time and see where this goes.....no matter where we finish. But only if we bring quality players in and the the right ones.

9 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

We were playing to these so called "strengths" last season and finished 5th.

Absolutely not....far weaker team than this one and Conte all f**ked with the board. Funny you dont mention the title win under Conte where we swept all away playing to our strenghts.

4 hours ago, coco said:

 Chelsea's total of 44 points is the joint highest for a fourth-placed team at this stage.

There you go again with facts. Stop it !

5 hours ago, coco said:

 Chelsea's total of 44 points is the joint highest for a fourth-placed team at this stage.

I think this actually shows the relative weakness outside of the top six. The gap in quality has grown significantly over the past decade as more money has gone to the dominant sides. At least we've avoided relegation this year. Palace went down with 43pts at the start of the Premier League.

 

2 hours ago, atomis said:

I said weeks ago we can only bide the time and see where this goes.....no matter where we finish. But only if we bring quality players in and the the right ones.

Absolutely not....far weaker team than this one and Conte all f**ked with the board. Funny you dont mention the title win under Conte where we swept all away playing to our strenghts.

Conte did a brilliant job the year we won the league. I still love Conte, he's made history with us. Premier league and FA Cup in 2 years is superb. Things in football change quickly though and if you don't adapt you'll be left behind and last season his defensive tactics were questionable. The way we set up against City away was the worst and most embarrassing tactical display I've ever seen from us. Don't get me wrong, we've played worse in games (we were terrible against Spurs away in the league this season), but in terms of how we were set up tactically by the manager for a match, that was the worst. Some on here are calling Sarri's possession based football boring, but I'm really enjoying watching it and it seems our players are happy with it too.

47 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

Conte did a brilliant job the year we won the league. I still love Conte, he's made history with us. Premier league and FA Cup in 2 years is superb. Things in football change quickly though and if you don't adapt you'll be left behind and last season his defensive tactics were questionable. The way we set up against City away was the worst and most embarrassing tactical display I've ever seen from us. Don't get me wrong, we've played worse in games (we were terrible against Spurs away in the league this season), but in terms of how we were set up tactically by the manager for a match, that was the worst. Some on here are calling Sarri's possession based football boring, but I'm really enjoying watching it and it seems our players are happy with it too.

Thats fair.

On 09/01/2019 at 14:27, atomis said:

Got some fair points.....and believe me I know the board handicapped Sarii big time here. But still Sarii has shown no plan b. Subs are always like for like.....formation remains the same whether we are ahead or losing.....Theres no surprise element to shock the opponent. Managers know how we will set up and play game in game out. He takes no risks at all like taking a defender off for an attacker etc. It will be a very hard learning curve if he isnt willing to see that we must mix it up.....a good general uses all the tools that he has, he will try to go different routes. I think pep would have done certain things better, but im still Sarii in, even if he persist with average and our of form players, even when we keep playing slow boring footy ( last night we were good though ).

How have the board handicapped Sari?