Him and Kai are our secret weapons for the ucl mwahahaha

Funny that no one talk about how Tuchel has turned Ziyech and puli into bench warmer. Not rotation player, bench warmer. 

I remember a lot of people was talking about Lamp can't work with "great" talent. Tuchel came in and decided that it is difficult to play all these undisciplined attacker together let's just play only 1 of them. 

Edited February 18, 20215 yr by Bob stark

51 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Funny that no one talk about how Tuchel has turned Ziyech and puli into bench warmer. Not rotation player, bench warmer. 

I remember a lot of people was talking about Lamp can't work with "great" talent. Tuchel came in and decided that it is difficult to play all these undisciplined attacker together let's just play only 1 of them. 

No room for wingers in his system at the moment, they may later get more involved. I'm not convinced either are fully fit. 

That said, frankly I think we can expect a lot of Jorginho and Kovacic having 150 passes a game and most of the excitement in our games happening in the match chat on this forum. 

24 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

No room for wingers in his system at the moment, they may later get more involved. I'm not convinced either are fully fit. 

 

 

Yup,I dont think fitness is the problem here. Tuchel will give them game time here and there if fitness is the problem.

 

26 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

That said, frankly I think we can expect a lot of Jorginho and Kovacic having 150 passes a game and most of the excitement in our games happening in the match chat on this forum. 

🤣🤣🤣 It is what you get from heavy possesion team,some people seem to like it. 

Lots of pass, very little chance created so far. Very2 reminiscent of our time under Sarri.

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Funny that no one talk about how Tuchel has turned Ziyech and puli into bench warmer. Not rotation player, bench warmer. 

I remember a lot of people was talking about Lamp can't work with "great" talent. Tuchel came in and decided that it is difficult to play all these undisciplined attacker together let's just play only 1 of them. 

Pulisic was in a bad shape this season already and Ziyech has been injured most of the time. Tuchel's decision to turn to CHO that has been in good shape almost every time he played this season is the correct decision, you play to get the result and not to force a player to come good at the cost of losing games. Right now Chilwell is also on the bench and that is clearly due to our tactics and not due to Tuchel not knowing how to work with talented players, CHO is also a great talent.

On form, Pulisic doesnt deserve to be starting any games anyway. Has he had any good games this season? His touch has been poor and he keeps losing possession when he does play. I think he has to show more when he gets the chances for him to force his way into the team. 

16 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Pulisic was in a bad shape this season already and Ziyech has been injured most of the time. Tuchel's decision to turn to CHO that has been in good shape almost every time he played this season is the correct decision, you play to get the result and not to force a player to come good at the cost of losing games. Right now Chilwell is also on the bench and that is clearly due to our tactics and not due to Tuchel not knowing how to work with talented players, CHO is also a great talent.

CHO is of course talented. but that wasn't the question that everyone was complaining about Lamp. People complained that lamp can't make super player like Haverz, Ziyech, Werner and puli to play together and work.

Tuchel came in and send two as bench waemer, and onlu use Werner. Havertz is injured so that doesn't count yet I don't see the same complain that Lamp had. 

2 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

CHO is of course talented. but that wasn't the question that everyone was complaining about Lamp. People complained that lamp can't make super player like Haverz, Ziyech, Werner and puli to play together and work.

Tuchel came in and send two as bench waemer, and onlu use Werner. Havertz is injured so that doesn't count yet I don't see the same complain that Lamp had. 

Why would anyone complain? We're winning games. 

7 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Why would anyone complain? We're winning games. 

We were top of the league with Lamp. And you have people complaining why Werner, Havertz, puli struggle or didn't play

Tuchel came in and his solution is to send Ziyech and puli to the bench. Hmm, I don't see many complaints. 

2 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

We were top of the league with Lamp. And you have people complaining why Werner, Havertz, puli struggle or didn't play

Tuchel came in and his solution is to send Ziyech and puli to the bench. Hmm, I don't see many complaints. 

I don't know why anyone would criticise Lampard for not playing someone if we were winning. 

 

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I don't know why anyone would criticise Lampard for not playing someone if we were winning. 

This is a bit disingenuous. There was endless sooking about particular players, notably Mason Mount being picked even though he has largely been our best player this season. That's before we get to Kante. All this while we were top of the league (which happened 6 weeks before Frank was sacked).

 

On 13/02/2021 at 22:38, haviet1 said:

 

THIS ^^^^

Yes, Pulisic has been underwhelming this season; no argument there.

What's more curious is none of the attackers are playing to their standards (Timo, Havertz, Ziyech, Pulisic, etc.)

Don't know what it is, but something just haven't click yet. Imagine having those 4 on the field at the same time at their best form?

 

 

We just don't have the right balance going forward. Even back in summer I had a hard time imaging how all these players can fit together. It just feels very awkward to make it work and I guses moving players in and out will be neccessary in summer. 

Neither Tammy or Giroud are very convincing CF for a top-four team yet Werner is at his best when playing off of a main striker. Pulisic is best at LW but Werner occupies this place now so he is forced to sit on the bench or play out of position. Havertz doesn't fit into either Lampard's nor Tuchels system (at least from what we saw so far) and I don't know what his best position is even supposed to be. Maybe try him at CF with lots of freedom to fall back a bit while Werner plays alongside him on the left? Ziyech should be good at RW but has been very inconsistent all season and now CHO has firmly taken over that position due to his good performances. It's all a bit of a mess. 

It feels like none of our summer signings apart from Thiago Silva (who ironically arrived for free) and to some extent Mendy have been very impactful. Chillwell started well and then fell off rapidly. Ziyech, Havertz and Werner have not proven to be better than our academy players at all and it seems very questionable to me what is going to happen to them in the next months.

Edited February 18, 20215 yr by reparto corse

6 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

All this while we were top of the league (which happened 6 weeks before Frank was sacked).

That's just revisionist nonsense.  We have always been sh*te under Frank, we never had a 17 match unbeaten streak, we were never top of the league and the fact that we have lost 6 whole matches this season is obviously so much worse than Leicester, Liverpool, Everton, Pikies, Spuds and Arsenal, isn't it?  Oh, wait.  No it's not.

I have said before, where is the clamour from the dippers twatterites about sacking Klopp who has gone from 1st to 6th in a matter of weeks?

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

CHO is of course talented. but that wasn't the question that everyone was complaining about Lamp. People complained that lamp can't make super player like Haverz, Ziyech, Werner and puli to play together and work.

Tuchel came in and send two as bench waemer, and onlu use Werner. Havertz is injured so that doesn't count yet I don't see the same complain that Lamp had. 

People complained about how Havertz isn't good enough, only a few and including myself here raised the question about how he was being used by Lampard and defended him. He had the virus and has been injured now so his contribution got stopped by other factors.

IMO most people complained about Werner missing chances and some argued that it's only his fault for his bad performances - while he's still missing chances he puts in a good shift and has been a huge factor in our recent wins anyway, he just scored after going 1000 minutes without a goal so that's encouraging.

Tuchel did get an assist out of Pulisic when he passed to Alonso but we're still waiting for him to produce some goals for us this season. It's fair to say that he has had a rather disappointing season so far considering that by the end of last season he had around 5 goals in the last 10 games or so but he has also been injured both last season and this one.

Tuchel can't really rely on wingers that are injury prone and so far Ziyech and Pulisic have been exactly that - Part from them we have only CHO left as a natural winger so Tuchel's decision to focus on players that are more ready to contribute has been the correct way to start turning the season around.

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

People complained about how Havertz isn't good enough, only a few and including myself here raised the question about how he was being used by Lampard and defended him. He had the virus and has been injured now so his contribution got stopped by other factors.

IMO most people complained about Werner missing chances and some argued that it's only his fault for his bad performances - while he's still missing chances he puts in a good shift and has been a huge factor in our recent wins anyway, he just scored after going 1000 minutes without a goal so that's encouraging.

Tuchel did get an assist out of Pulisic when he passed to Alonso but we're still waiting for him to produce some goals for us this season. It's fair to say that he has had a rather disappointing season so far considering that by the end of last season he had around 5 goals in the last 10 games or so but he has also been injured both last season and this one.

Tuchel can't really rely on wingers that are injury prone and so far Ziyech and Pulisic have been exactly that - Part from them we have only CHO left as a natural winger so Tuchel's decision to focus on players that are more ready to contribute has been the correct way to start turning the season around.

It is actually quite simple. It is very difficult to make all this player work together, and have a balance and cohesive squad. Tuchel knows it, Lamp knows it. It is quite obvious after you watch these players for a while.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

 

This is a bit disingenuous. There was endless sooking about particular players, notably Mason Mount being picked even though he has largely been our best player this season. That's before we get to Kante. All this while we were top of the league (which happened 6 weeks before Frank was sacked).

 

Well let's be clear here. I wasn't slagging Frank off for his team selections when we were winning. And so I am not going to slag off Tuchel either. 

I don't really know why anyone would and I repeatedly backed Frank's selections at the time. I questioned more than anything else how he was getting his players who were playing to be better, but that wasn't when we were winning! 

People are also slagging off Tuchel's selections though. People are constantly asking why Rudiger is being played. Why is Pulisic on the bench - I see that on twitter a lot. Havertz is injured. Kante was injured. Ziyech I think people are beginning to realise might not be a good fit. The criticism is there, and it was there maybe under Lampard by some quarters, but if anything, it's probably moreso under Tuchel now than under Lampard in the Autumn. 

6 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

 

This is a bit disingenuous. There was endless sooking about particular players, notably Mason Mount being picked even though he has largely been our best player this season. That's before we get to Kante. All this while we were top of the league (which happened 6 weeks before Frank was sacked).

I can't recall any moaning about Kante's inclusion in the Autumn when it was working, when the Kante selection was drawing criticism was mainly last season when he kept getting shoehorned in whenever fit despite us playing a lot better as a team (especially vs deep defenses) without him. 

As for Mount, the same people criticising him under Frank are still doing it, when it comes to Mason some people are simply too far gone unfortunately.

Let's pretend Pulisic was in top Covid-comeback form right now like the end of the last season. Where would Tuchel play him?

The reality is that Tuchel can't really accommodate a player like Pulisic right now given the overall makeup and defensive frailties of the team. I don't think Puli's form is really that bad given the fact that he's been played in a different position half the year and half of the team changed with no preseason. People might point to the Barnsley game, but everyone on the team looked like crap in a game played on a cow-poke field with heavy team rotation and an aggressively-pressing opponent. It's clear that Tuchel is trying to establish some consistency by allowing players like Werner to get into form. He just can't do that with a shape that allows Pulisic (and others) to do the same.

I'm sure Tuchel likes Pulisic, heck he gave him his professional start. Tuchel can only play the cards he was dealt and he has to do what's best for the team right now to get results. If Pulisic can't get more consistent playing time I'm sure he will probably push for a trade or loan in the summer. He really doesn't have much of a choice as a national team leader. He's simply too good to not be playing. He won't have a problem finding an opportunity because teams will line up for a 22-year old that has displayed real periods of world-class potential. Maybe Tuchel doesn't really want to play this way and ultimately the shape of the team will change. Either way, players like Pulisic will find a way to play because the game wants them to.

17 minutes ago, jbdiver said:

Let's pretend Pulisic was in top Covid-comeback form right now like the end of the last season. Where would Tuchel play him?

The reality is that Tuchel can't really accommodate a player like Pulisic right now given the overall makeup and defensive frailties of the team. I don't think Puli's form is really that bad given the fact that he's been played in a different position half the year and half of the team changed with no preseason. People might point to the Barnsley game, but everyone on the team looked like crap in a game played on a cow-poke field with heavy team rotation and an aggressively-pressing opponent. It's clear that Tuchel is trying to establish some consistency by allowing players like Werner to get into form. He just can't do that with a shape that allows Pulisic (and others) to do the same.

I'm sure Tuchel likes Pulisic, heck he gave him his professional start. Tuchel can only play the cards he was dealt and he has to do what's best for the team right now to get results. If Pulisic can't get more consistent playing time I'm sure he will probably push for a trade or loan in the summer. He really doesn't have much of a choice as a national team leader. He's simply too good to not be playing. He won't have a problem finding an opportunity because teams will line up for a 22-year old that has displayed real periods of world-class potential. Maybe Tuchel doesn't really want to play this way and ultimately the shape of the team will change. Either way, players like Pulisic will find a way to play because the game wants them to.

He could try the same role Werner has been playing, the inside forward position, but obviously Werner has claimed that spot now with some decent form of late. But oof the bench Pulisic could slip into that position, it could work out even better for him.

1 hour ago, coco said:

He could try the same role Werner has been playing, the inside forward position, but obviously Werner has claimed that spot now with some decent form of late. But oof the bench Pulisic could slip into that position, it could work out even better for him.

Yeah Werner and Mount are playing as a "double 10". You could put Pulisic or Havertz in where Werner and Mount are playing quite easily. 

You could arguably slot Pulisic in the RWB slot. No reason why he can't do that. 

Ziyech feels the odd one out for me. I don't think he works in this system. I also think he's too one footed for the PL and doesn't work hard enough on defence. 

He's our best player attacking wise and I feel like he needs some special treatment like Hazard did, a free role to do what ever his genius wants to do.

I don't think there is reason to be concerned for Pulisic atm or Ziyech.

Pulisic has a role in this current set up as either a floating 10 (Lf/Rf, Lm/Lwb or Rm/Rwb and possibly false 9.

When talking after the games Tuchel has often mentioned Pulisic and how he should be playing. He's even said how he knows what Pulisic can do and wants to become more accustomed to the other squad members.

The problem is as mentioned before by others the injury prone nature of our wingers. You simply cannot build a team and system around 2 players (Ziyech and Pulisic) who aren't reliable enough for a whole season.

Aside from CHO who is a relatively unknown variable (in the long run) they are our only 'out and out' wingers and so it makes sense to not rely on a system that only favours them. 

A good Coach and Manager knows its not about individual players but the team as a whole. This Chelsea job was ideal for Thomas after dealing with the superstars of PSG he no longer has the pressure of Neymar and Mbappe and can look more at a collective system rather than one structured purely for two individuals.

Contrary to this Werner and Havertz are big investments and he is tasked with getting the best out of them and giving them regular game time but the egos and the overall situations is different after all we're comparing around £120m worth of talent to over €400m.

Christian at 22 years of age is seen as the future of Chelsea alongside Reece, Mason, Tammy, Billy and Callum. The idea at 22 that he is competing for game time with Werner for example can only be good for his development as a top class player.

We all know what he can do but can he do it regularly, can he stay fit regularly these are the questions we don't know and at 22 he has plenty of time to work this out.

The season is long and we're only passing the half way mark, Tuchel won't want to risk injuries and so has played him and Hakim sparingly but due to fixture congestion they will be featuring soon and much more regularly so patience is key.

Hakim is a difficult one, if the press is to believed he has reservations about his role in 'Tuchel's team. He doesn't want to be on the bench for large periods and wants regular game time throughout the season after all he's 27 and entering his prime. According to the papers he's asked to speak with Marina and wouldn't mind a move away if the situation stays the same.

Do I believe this? Not really but if its true I wouldn't be surprised. Its hard to juggle all the attacking talents in this squad, Lamps starting 11 was too top heavy and now Tuchel's team has been criticised by some for being too bottom heavy.

Realistically Ziyech will get game time he does however, need to adapt to the english game. If he cannot then sadly he may be moved on but I highly doubt it will be this summer. I'd like to think he would want to at least try two seasons in english football after being quoted saying its his dream to play here.

Another long post from your boy, basically saying the usual patience is key. Not just from the fans but the players as well and if some players don't want to be here then as has always been our way we will graciously let them leave. We only want players who play for the badge.

2 hours ago, coco said:

He could try the same role Werner has been playing, the inside forward position, but obviously Werner has claimed that spot now with some decent form of late. But oof the bench Pulisic could slip into that position, it could work out even better for him.

 

In the long term, I believe we will see Werner in the #9 position. Giroud will leave, and Tammy will likely end up fighting Werner for the #9 spot or backing up Werner. Remembered, Tuchel turned the left winger Auba into a world class striker at Dortmund.

Pulisic will then be able to slot into 2 or 3 attacking mid positions that will be available, depending on the system/formation Tuchel finally settled on  (while maintaining some flexibility).

But for now, I think both Pulisic and Ziyech will have to be patient on the bench partly due to form but also due to the fact that Tuchel is still experimenting with this squad.

 

This is quite a headline, the source is Daily Star so probably just a bunch of smokes.

 

Chelsea transfer news: Blues to consider selling one of Christian Pulisic or Hakim Ziyech

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/news/chelsea-transfer-news-blues-to-consider-selling-one-of-christian-pulisic-or-hakim-ziyech

 

 

I think that it's only a matter of time when Tuchel changes the formation, I don't see us playing with the 3 at the back till the end of the season.