3 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Simple fact is Sarri is giving more time to youth than Conte or Mourinho did. Plus we can hardly say RLD is sitting and watching, he's getting plenty of time, and has also had an injury recently.

Sorry, you're clutching at straws. We can all see with our own eyes from game to game that Sarri plays practically the same team every week bar a change here and there and everyone knows what sub is going to be made and when during the game. What with the line up and playing "his football", it's like he has got a script that he just can't change from. All top coaches have to adapt and learn from mistakes - up to now, Sarri seems incapable of being able to do so.

 

5 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Sorry, you're clutching at straws. We can all see with our own eyes from game to game that Sarri plays practically the same team every week bar a change here and there and everyone knows what sub is going to be made and when during the game. What with the line up and playing "his football", it's like he has got a script that he just can't change from. All top coaches have to adapt and learn from mistakes - up to now, Sarri seems incapable of being able to do so.

I didn't notice Pep changing his system much in his first season. He just kept making them learn, replacing players who couldn't do it, and now he's enjoying the rewards. Same with Klopp. 

A lot of fans on here go as far as to blame the players  which they should shoulder some blame, but this is on Sarri. Sarri picks the same personal every week. I would like to see Christensen and Emerson get a run now and then and give Alonso a rest. A manager saying maybe I can’t motivate these players isn’t something you want to hear from your manager. Sarri is a fraud that’s just my opinion. If you want to be kind to him and exempt him well fine. Pep didn’t change system , but he wasn’t afraid to drop personal he even drop Aguero at one point.

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by Simon35

9 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

I didn't notice Pep changing his system much in his first season. He just kept making them learn, replacing players who couldn't do it, and now he's enjoying the rewards. Same with Klopp. 

Unfortunately Sarri isn't Pep or Klopp. I'm still willing to stick with him if I can see that he can adapt and respond to situations (like all top coaches do), but the clock is ticking.

 

4 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Simple fact is Sarri is giving more time to youth than Conte or Mourinho did. Plus we can hardly say RLD is sitting and watching, he's getting plenty of time, and has also had an injury recently.

Not sure he is. 

Conte gave quite a few minutes to Amapdu, Chritstensen, RLC, Chalobah gave a debuts to Kyle Scott and Ola Aina. 

14 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

I didn't notice Pep changing his system much in his first season. He just kept making them learn, replacing players who couldn't do it, and now he's enjoying the rewards. Same with Klopp. 

Pep played about 8 formations in his first season. If anything the criticism was he was being too tactical and changing things too frequently but ultimately he used his first season to understand the demands of the Premier League and make a judgement about what the squad he inherited could and couldn't do. 

He was quite adamant about the style of football he wanted to play but was and still is very flexible about the way he would deliver it. 

Sarri's been a lot more blinkered in his approach and has rigidly tried to implement a specific formation and approach play. 

8 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Unfortunately Sarri isn't Pep or Klopp. I'm still willing to stick with him if I can see that he can adapt and respond to situations (like all top coaches do), but the clock is ticking.

So Sarri doesn't deserve to get the same time/opportunity as Pep or Klopp? Why exactly?

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by Kentonio

 

22 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

I didn't notice Pep changing his system much in his first season. He just kept making them learn, replacing players who couldn't do it, and now he's enjoying the rewards. Same with Klopp. 

Well, only partly true. Guardiola was calling on players like Clichy, Zabaleta, Toure, Sagna, Navas, Kolarov, Claudio Bravo in goal. There isn't that level of deadwood in the Chelsea squad right now, so I'd say he was more limited in his first season than Sarri at present. As for the second point, money solved a lot of these, not just sticking to the same system; Zabaleta was playing CDM and Sagna / Clichy were City’s fullbacks. Now, he adapted Fernandinho from his traditional role in midfield to having a unique role such that he's vital for the way they play. He , beginning from his first season,  adapted by playing Fernandinho at DM (though not in the mould of somebody like Matic or Mikel) almost exclusively and not forcing his fullbacks so high up the pitch all the time. He was cleverly able to have  Delph deputise as  LB who provided some good performances, not like Alonso who's largely  ineffective but is never really challenged. 

But this is Pep, he can do things that few managers can do.  Something that Man City fans had also stated was that  Soriano and Begiristain have implemented a clear philosophy how they want to move forward as a club all the way from first team signings to how the academy players are coached.

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by MANoWAR

2 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

So Sarri doesn't deserve to get the same time/opportunity as Pep or Klopp? Why exactly?

I have already explained why. Both Pep & Klopp have proven track records - they are winners and have had success. Sarri doesn't have that luxury so he needs to show he DESERVES time and as I have said, up to now he isn't showing he does deserve time because he only seems to know one way and if (when) that doesn't work there is no plan b,c,d..................we just lose and lose badly. 

2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I have already explained why. Both Pep & Klopp have proven track records - they are winners and have had success. Sarri doesn't have that luxury so he needs to show he DESERVES time and as I have said, up to now he isn't showing he does deserve time because he only seems to know one way and if (when) that doesn't work there is no plan b,c,d..................we just lose and lose badly. 

We hired him and he deserves to be backed. I hate this idea that because he hasn't won a title before, he should be treated like some second class manager. He's done amazing things at Empoli and Napoli, and only didn't win the league in Italy because it was practically impossible with the resources he had and the domination of Juventus. And he still nearly did it.

Yet now apparently everyone and his dog knows better than Sarri does about how to organize a football team and about tactics. More than the guy who Sacchi called a genius. Ok then, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Many more ridiculous performances and results and he will be gone.

18 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

We hired him and he deserves to be backed. I hate this idea that because he hasn't won a title before, he should be treated like some second class manager. He's done amazing things at Empoli and Napoli, and only didn't win the league in Italy because it was practically impossible with the resources he had and the domination of Juventus. And he still nearly did it.

Yet now apparently everyone and his dog knows better than Sarri does about how to organize a football team and about tactics. More than the guy who Sacchi called a genius. Ok then, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Yes and No! Don't get me wrong - I do like your argument and I DO want Sarri to succeed. I am not one of those who enjoys seeing short-term policies, with coaches replaced on a regular basis. I want our club to have a bit of stability and look to build something long-term. But to do that you have to see something that is worth persevering with and right now I have my doubts that Sarri is that man. Perhaps I'll just have to reserve judgement until after the next 5 games - think these 5 games will be make or break time for Sarri. 

25 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Yet now apparently everyone and his dog knows better than Sarri does about how to organize a football team and about tactics.

I doubt anyone could have us look much worse than we have done against Arsenal, Bournemouth and City lately to be frank.
And there are plenty of managers with a impressive CV behind them that simply couldn't make it work at their new club. Sarri's style of football is very clearly much more suited to the more slow paced italian football for example.
 

46 minutes ago, Simon35 said:

A lot of fans on here go as far as to blame the players  which they should shoulder some blame, but this is on Sarri. Sarri picks the same personal every week. I would like to see Christensen and Emerson get a run now and then and give Alonso a rest. A manager saying maybe I can’t motivate these players isn’t something you want to hear from your manager. Sarri is a fraud that’s just my opinion. If you want to be kind to him and exempt him well fine. Pep didn’t change system , but he wasn’t afraid to drop personal he even drop Aguero at one point.

Who else is he supposed to pick? When he changes the team (vs Bournemouth) we lose 0-4, when he doesn't, he's criticised. Please explain which game changer we can take off the bench? Jesus, people think somehow a new coach is going to come in and turn this group into world beaters. It's laughable and frankly delusional. People need to accept we aren't the Chelsea of old, and they also need to accept our recruitment has been abysmal, and they also need to accept that the club's youth policy at loaning out every talented youth player is not helping.

People also need to recognise the club has had no clear vision for the club for years. A couple of league wins paper over the cracks that have been occurring for at least 4 seasons. It has culminated in where we are at today. What happens when the next coach comes and he doesn't win every game and starts struggling again? Then what?! It's gonna be the same situation, but because we're so short sighted as a club nobody can see it. Parts of the fanbase have become so entitled due to previous success because somehow it may work every time, but we have missed out on the CL for 2 out of the last 3 seasons, so the strategy is now losing it's steam.

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I doubt anyone could have us look much worse than we have done against Arsenal, Bournemouth and City lately to be frank.
And there are plenty of managers with a impressive CV behind them that simply couldn't make it work at their new club. Sarri's style of football is very clearly much more suited to the more slow paced italian football for example.
 

You mean like Pep's or even to lesser extent Bielsa's? Who are both leading the top leagues in England? For me it's about ambition. If our club lacks it now then fair enough, but at least sell up and give the keys to someone who has that ambition to lead the club in the right direction. 

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by enigma

5 minutes ago, enigma said:

Who else is he supposed to pick? When he changes the team (vs Bournemouth) we lose 0-4, when he doesn't, he's criticised. Please explain which game changer we can take off the bench? Jesus, people think somehow a new coach is going to come in and turn this group into world beaters. It's laughable and frankly delusional. People need to accept we aren't the Chelsea of old, and they also need to accept our recruitment has been abysmal, and they also need to accept that the club's youth policy at loaning out every talented youth player is not helping.

People also need to recognise the club has had no clear vision for the club for years. A couple of league wins paper over the cracks that have been occurring for at least 4 seasons. It has culminated in where we are at today. What happens when the next coach comes and he doesn't win every game and starts struggling again? Then what?! It's gonna be the same situation, but because we're so short sighted as a club nobody can see it. Parts of the fanbase have become so entitled due to previous success because somehow it may work every time, but we have missed out on the CL for 2 out of the last 3 seasons, so the strategy is now losing it's steam.

What, you mean like Conte did in his first season?

 

3 minutes ago, enigma said:

You mean like Pep's or even to lesser extent Bielsa's? Who are both leading the top leagues in England? For me it's about ambition. If our club lacks it now then fair enough, but at least sell up and give the keys to someone who has that ambition to lead the club in the right direction. 

Pep changed his style to adjust to this league. His City-side is very, very different from the way he played with Bayern and Barcelona before that.
Sarri has said he won't do that, stubborn as he is.

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

What, you mean like Conte did in his first season?

 

shhh, we are not allowed to praise Conte. 

8 minutes ago, Nibs said:

What, you mean like Conte did in his first season?

 

You mean without CL and when Liverpool, City and Utd were nowhere to be seen? Be honest with yourself and take the blue specs off, that season was favourable towards us. Denying it is silly. Even Mourinho was able to win the league in his second season with signings like Costa, Fabregas etc. 

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by enigma

4 minutes ago, enigma said:

You mean without CL and when Liverpool, City and Utd were nowhere to be seen? Be honest with yourself and take the blue specs off, that season was favourable towards us. Denying it is silly. Even Mourinho was able to win the league in his second season with signings like Costa, Fabregas etc. 

I think you're being slightly harsh. Fact is Conte came into a team that had just finished 10th, with a new system for the players to learn and walked the league. Conte could only work with what he was given. It wasn't his fault we weren't in Europe or that the other teams weren't stronger.

12 minutes ago, enigma said:

You mean without CL and when Liverpool, City and Utd were nowhere to be seen? Be honest with yourself and take the blue specs off, that season was favourable towards us. Denying it is silly. Even Mourinho was able to win the league in his second season with signings like Costa, Fabregas etc. 

There are always tough opponents - winning the PL is NEVER easy. Sure, City and the dippers weren't as strong as they are currently, but it was still some feat by Conte to achieve what he did - I honestly couldn't see Sarri being able to do the same. Remember how Conte saw things weren't working after the defeats to Liverpool & Arsenal and CHANGED things. 

 

 

Edited February 12, 20197 yr by Nibs

2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

CHANGED things. 

This is exactly my issue at the mo. If Sarri had a willingness to change things then i think more people would have a bit more patience with him. But currently, it is the same team and system every week despite big losses.

 

1 hour ago, enigma said:

You mean like Pep's or even to lesser extent Bielsa's? Who are both leading the top leagues in England? For me it's about ambition. If our club lacks it now then fair enough, but at least sell up and give the keys to someone who has that ambition to lead the club in the right direction. 

Norwich are top 

1 hour ago, enigma said:

You mean without CL and when Liverpool, City and Utd were nowhere to be seen? Be honest with yourself and take the blue specs off, that season was favourable towards us. 

Winning 30 league matches didn't hurt either. 

What Conte achieved in that first season was phenomenal. 

Chelsea is a great gig if you can get it... work for about 6 months or so, have the team down tools and go crying to management about how mean you are, get an 8 figure pay out, and walk into another top job with your reputation in tact, because world football knows the spoiled group of brats at Chelsea are going to get any manager fired quickly.

I'm truly hoping the tide turns on this one. Whether Sarri stays or not, the club needs a massive clean out and a fresh start this summer. The contracts and age of the core group (with a few exceptions like Alonso) are primed for turnover.