4 minutes ago, Nibs said:

 

I'm a massive fan of Conte so appreciate I will be biased in his favour. It could well be that he didn't intend to stay and he did mess up in some way. But knowing the history of our club (the Board) and how they f**k up and implode on a fairly regular basis, I would not be at all surprised if it was them that pissed Conte off and that's why things went sour. When you look at how he turned things round the way he did after Mourinho, and led us to the PL (and should have been the double), he would have been well within reason to expect huge appreciation and reward and to be backed for the next season knowing we had the additional CL fixtures to contend with. I can only imagine things didn't go as he hoped and so that's why it went the way it did. You don't go from being the guy who loved the club and jumped into the fans and laughed and joked in press conferences to the sullen individual we saw the following season unless something has seriously pissed you off. 

I was also a big fan of Conte, but his attitude during the second season for me was very poor and unacceptable. Now I know how our board can be, so I don't think they are blameless, but I do think they backed him with players he wanted in regards to Morata and Bakayoko.

Didn't he turn against Juventus in a similar way to Chelsea, and he played for Juventus for about 12 years, and was/is a legend there. Personally I think his tantrums are just part of his make up.

I was also a big fan of Conte, but his attitude during the second season for me was very poor and unacceptable. Now I know how our board can be, so I don't think they are blameless, but I do think they backed him with players he wanted in regards to Morata and Bakayoko.
Didn't he turn against Juventus in a similar way to Chelsea, and he played for Juventus for about 12 years, and was/is a legend there. Personally I think his tantrums are just part of his make up.

Yep ge quit juventus because of transfer issues

31 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

Some of the most bone numbingly dull football I’ve seen in 40 years of going to the Bridge was under his tenure last year.

I left early on at least 3 occasions. More fun to get home and watch the fire go out.

Not that would make a jots difference to some of the JCL numpties on here. They’d tolerate any old sh*t if it garnered 3 points. “ It’s all about where we are in May innit”.......  

 

It's all subjective. Some of the best football I have seen from us was under Conte whereas at times under Jose it was Dull with a capital D and that was when it was 3 points at all costs, 1-0, bring on Mikel.

Now we have dull accompanied by thrashings!!

1 hour ago, Ewell CFC said:

Some of the most bone numbingly dull football I’ve seen in 40 years of going to the Bridge was under his tenure last year.

I left early on at least 3 occasions. More fun to get home and watch the fire go out.

Not that would make a jots difference to some of the JCL numpties on here. They’d tolerate any old sh*t if it garnered 3 points. “ It’s all about where we are in May innit”.......  

 

The football was terrible in the 2nd half of his last season, I'll agree, but we shouldn't forget how good he was in his first season.

Sarri in till end of season then re-evaluate.

If Sarri wins the Europa league or finished top 4, you keep faith him.

If Sarri wins only the Carrabao cup or that and FA cup or only FA cup - then you think about it. 

If Sarri wins nothing, however we play fun football like the beginning and really score a lot of goals - then you think about it. 

If there are no trophies and no top 4 finish and the football is the same as before - then he needs to go.

32 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

The football was terrible in the 2nd half of his last season, I'll agree, but we shouldn't forget how good he was in his first season.

Can’t argue with that.

 

This guy has hit the nail on the head :) 

For a Sarri in or out thread there sure is a lot of Conte stuff being mentioned. It sounds like a lot of fans are still coming to terms with Conte's departure.

As a long standing Chelsea fan I have seen much change at the club over the last 45 years, good and bad. The last 15 years have been by far the most successful in the clubs history and we have a certain Russian gentleman to thank for this glorious run. We have won major trophies I could only dream of as a kid. We have seen some superb players performing some of the best football the premier league has ever seen. The 2004-2006 squad for me was the best team in the PL in the last 15 years.

It is a miracle of the modern game that we have done this without ever really having a steady manager. By steady I mean one with longevity. Someone who built a squad over a 5 year period and stayed in the managers role. Jose comes the closest but to give him all the credit for the squad in those early years would be doing a disservice to Claudio Ranieri. No we did it despite the manager being chopped and changed. So many top managers have come and gone. Jose twice, Guus, Scolari, Carlo, Conte, Raffa (sorry). We also tried a couple of new guys with potential AVB, Di Matteo. We seem to have tried it all and are currently employing a 60 year old with potential. I think Sarri probably fits into the Avram Grant category of experienced but without success. We have run out of new approaches as far as recruiting managers goes. We are now just changing the figure head every couple of years and there aren't any outstanding new candidates on the horizon. We used to get the best candidates in the world and now there is no chance of that happening.

The board need a new approach. The problem is we probably need to rebuild the squad and keep Sarri. Sell Hazard, Alonso, Pedro, Willian. Play CHD and Loftus Cheek. Get some youth in the team. Get some new talent up front. Get a new squad. I'm of the view that player power has been handed down but the current squad aren't good enough to handle the power.

We won the CL in 2012 because of the players. Not Robbie. That squad had a real sense of responsibility. Real desire. Frank. JT, Drogba and Big Pete new how to raise their game when they had to. They had desire and they had the skill. This squad doesn't. We need to get that desire back.

Give the power to Sarri and let him build a new squad. Give him a couple of seasons. It's too soon for Frank and JT but their time will come. They are the dream team. Let Sarri be to Frank and JT what Claudio was to Jose.

 

COYB.

 

3 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

And that's what the squad he inherited is doing.

At the start of the season a lot of people in here were posting how they would be happy with challenging for a top four place and maybe a decent run in a cup.  We're doing the first and still in all three cups we entered.  But, on the back of a couple of very bad results, they've all changed their minds and the manager has to be sacked.

Talk about hypocrisy and lack of patience.

and that's the rub.  I bet if all the people asking for Sarri to be sacked now were asked back in July/Before the season in August "Would you take a 4-nil drubbing and a 6-nil drubbing if it meant come  mid February you were within touching distance of the top 4 and in all cup competitions?" most of them would have shaken your hand off.

The expectations of any reasonable fan was top 4 and maybe a cup or two if really doing well this season..... on track for all that DESPITE trying to massively overhaul the playing system with a squad full of players who have no issues downing tools when they don't like the manager or their methods or just don't feel like trying as hard as the other team.

18 minutes ago, Barry Bridges said:

The expectations of any reasonable fan was top 4 and maybe a cup or two if really doing well this season..... on track for all that

Do you think we'll finish fourth?
United look like a much better side than us and have overtaken us despite being 11 points behind just two months ago. They have all the momentum and our curve in terms of performances and points are pointing downwards.
Not to mention Arsenal who we would also have to overtake.

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Do you think we'll finish fourth?
United look like a much better side than us and have overtaken us despite being 11 points behind just two months ago. They have all the momentum and our curve in terms of performances and points are pointing downwards.
Not to mention Arsenal who we would also have to overtake.

I am more worried about Utd than Arsenal. Not only do they have the momentum but they also have a better squad. Arsenal had plenty of opportunities to close the lead on us and get before but unfortunately required a fortuitous drubbing of Chelsea from Bournesmouth and City to get ahead barely on goal difference.

10 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Do you think we'll finish fourth?
United look like a much better side than us and have overtaken us despite being 11 points behind just two months ago. They have all the momentum and our curve in terms of performances and points are pointing downwards.
Not to mention Arsenal who we would also have to overtake.

If we play like we did in the start of the season, ya I think we overcome that 1 point gap with MUFC......if we play like we have the last 2 months then we better win Europa League because otherwise we won't have any European football next season.

Part of the issue is Sarri's tactics aren't working, but another clear part of the problem is the way the players are performing it wouldn't matter the tactics being implemented.  I don't know what Sarri ball is but I'm pretty sure defending like school children and standing around without the ball aren't part of it.

15 hours ago, brownindian said:

I am more worried about Utd than Arsenal. Not only do they have the momentum but they also have a better squad. Arsenal had plenty of opportunities to close the lead on us and get before but unfortunately required a fortuitous drubbing of Chelsea from Bournesmouth and City to get ahead barely on goal difference.

Not getting at you @brownindian in any way, more the doom-merchants who now see OGS's United as being on a par with 1970's Brazil, but, I'll say it again, United haven't played anyone decent in that run to overtake us, and I believe that their board looked at the fixture list and decided that was the ideal time to  sack Mourinho because,  whoever or whatever took over was going to get near maximum points from that run of fixtures.

Look what happened last night, the first time they have come up against a decent team.  f**ked over was what they were.

Some  people need to get some semblance of reality, look at the overall picture and stop being such fannies about 1 point off fourth at this stage of the season and still in all three cups.

And they need to take your emboldened part into account as well.

59 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Not getting at you @brownindian in any way, more the doom-merchants who now see OGS's United as being on a par with 1970's Brazil, but, I'll say it again, United haven't played anyone decent in that run to overtake us, and I believe that their board looked at the fixture list and decided that was the ideal time to  sack Mourinho because,  whoever or whatever took over was going to get near maximum points from that run of fixtures.

Look what happened last night, the first time they have come up against a decent team.  f**ked over was what they were.

Some  people need to get some semblance of reality, look at the overall picture and stop being such fannies about 1 point off fourth at this stage of the season and still in all three cups.

And they need to take your emboldened part into account as well.

The forum is spit between glass half full, and glass half empty merchants.

As fans we can’t do anything about the mechanisms of the club and what happens on the park. Less stressful to be glass half full in my book.

18 hours ago, Osgood is Good said:

I was also a big fan of Conte, but his attitude during the second season for me was very poor and unacceptable. Now I know how our board can be, so I don't think they are blameless, but I do think they backed him with players he wanted in regards to Morata and Bakayoko.

Didn't he turn against Juventus in a similar way to Chelsea, and he played for Juventus for about 12 years, and was/is a legend there. Personally I think his tantrums are just part of his make up.

I think this is right. talented manager, but bit of a prima donna.  the hair transplant was perhaps the "tell" in hindsight. and the suits - a tad toooo immaculate?

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Not getting at you @brownindian in any way, more the doom-merchants who now see OGS's United as being on a par with 1970's Brazil, but, I'll say it again, United haven't played anyone decent in that run to overtake us, and I believe that their board looked at the fixture list and decided that was the ideal time to  sack Mourinho because,  whoever or whatever took over was going to get near maximum points from that run of fixtures.

Look what happened last night, the first time they have come up against a decent team.  f**ked over was what they were.

Some  people need to get some semblance of reality, look at the overall picture and stop being such fannies about 1 point off fourth at this stage of the season and still in all three cups.

And they need to take your emboldened part into account as well.

True, and last night's exposure of Man U by PSG could (COULD) be their undoing. In football as in life, there's a tendency to extrapolate, so indeed everyone was thinking OGS' run was going to go on forever, just as many now assume Sarri will lose 4-0 or worse every away game for the rest of the season. But things move in cycles. Good runs bring an ever heavier weight of expectation, and then they come to an end - often abruptly. that has a significant impact on confidence and other teams' perception of a team's vulnerability - "he's not a machine he's a man!" Conversely, after a poor run, you reach a point where expectation is significantly lowered, pressure is relieved and positive surprises are possible. So here's Klopp at some point in the future after we spank Liverpool and they just can't handle our regista's tough tackling and pinpoint passing: "that Jorginho just isn't human, he's like a little piece of iron." In my dreams, ha!

You mean without CL and when Liverpool, City and Utd were nowhere to be seen? Be honest with yourself and take the blue specs off, that season was favourable towards us. Denying it is silly. Even Mourinho was able to win the league in his second season with signings like Costa, Fabregas etc. 

Nothing spectacular about that, Costa and Fabregas were at there prime and they were playing the best game of there life then.
What I find extraordinary about Conte winning the league was finding a way to get the best out of players mostly considered average like Moses, Alonso and Batshuayi. Winning the league with this players playing a major role is something I will never forget about Conte.

There are always tough opponents - winning the PL is NEVER easy. Sure, City and the dippers weren't as strong as they are currently, but it was still some feat by Conte to achieve what he did - I honestly couldn't see Sarri being able to do the same. Remember how Conte saw things weren't working after the defeats to Liverpool & Arsenal and CHANGED things. 
 
 

Like seriously, I forgot about that last part, thanks for reminding me!
Conte isn't perfect just like everyone of us, he sometimes makes mistakes. But if we are to stick with a manager for more than the usual two or three years, I will always want it to be someone who can rebuild and still won't accept going a season without lifting any trophy. Conte for me any day!

8 minutes ago, wallosh said:

Nothing spectacular about that, Costa and Fabregas were at there prime and they were playing the best game of there life then.
What I find extraordinary about Conte winning the league was finding a way to get the best out of players mostly considered average like Moses, Alonso and Batshuayi. Winning the league with this players playing a major role is something I will never forget about Conte.

Yes, but we came crashing back to reality in the second season with added fixtures and Conte couldn't find a plan B after being found out. We actually were found out towards the end of the first season, but by then it was too late for anybody else to catch up to us. There are more top managers in the league now, better players, the league is more competitive. I always said that Sarri has come in at the wrong time. If he came here two to three seasons ago, I am sure he would have had more success, but this season it's incredibly difficult to be dominant consistently especially transitioning into a new system with limited players.

As I previously said, everything has been set up for Sarri to fail. Before the season started he barely had time to coach the team because players were coming back in bit parts. We never had a proficient striker to fit the system until Higuain came. The board could have looked at the squad and considered upgrading certain players to make the transition simpler, but it seems very little research was done and they expected Sarri to turn water into wine overnight and have us challenging. 

11 minutes ago, enigma said:

We actually were found out towards the end of the first season?

Was we? We lost to Spurs around the new year, and then lost to Palace and United towards the end of the season. Every other win from Spurs onwards was fairly routine. 

Was we? We lost to Spurs around the new year, and then lost to Palace and United towards the end of the season. Every other win from Spurs onwards was fairly routine. 

And the team was made up of average players he only tried to motivate and get the best out of them, I don't know why some people expected Conte to go unbeaten throughout the season.

40 minutes ago, wallosh said:

Like seriously, I forgot about that last part, thanks for reminding me!
Conte isn't perfect just like everyone of us, he sometimes makes mistakes. But if we are to stick with a manager for more than the usual two or three years, I will always want it to be someone who can rebuild and still won't accept going a season without lifting any trophy. Conte for me any day!

Conte played with a back 5 every single game after the loss to Arsenal. The same formation he played with Italy. He changed the formation from one he didn't like to one he always used. 

He wasn't flexible. The only flexibility he had was to make the team more defensive and it is why we went backwards in the second season. If we didnt sack Conte (and I believe he essentially quit) then we would still be playing with a back 5. I don't believe he would have rebuilt the team at all. The football would be dire and we would be comfortably in 6th. 

Additionally, Conte wanted to leave after the first season. He didn't sign an extension. He wanted total control which no top club offers a manager anymore. 

Edited February 13, 20197 yr by bisright1

4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Conte played with a back 5 every single game after the loss to Arsenal. The same formation he played with Italy. He changed the formation from one he didn't like to one he always used. 

He wasn't flexible. The only flexibility he had was to make the team more defensive and it is why we went backwards in the second season. If we didnt sack Conte (and I believe he essentially quit) then we would still be playing with a back 5. I don't believe he would have rebuilt the team at all. The football would be dire and we would be comfortably in 6th. 

Additionally, Conte wanted to leave after the first season. He didn't sign an extension. He wanted total control which no top club offers a manager anymore. 

Sure glad we avoided that dire sounding scenario.... Oh, wait. 

Conte would have persisted with 3 at the back for sure but he wanted a lot more quality, especially for the wing-back positions.

He wanted Sandro on the left and Kyle Walker or Oxlade-Chamberlain for the right. He wanted another striker so that he had the option of playing 2 up front, something he spoke about a few times. 

For the second season we bought quantity rather than quality and we didn't get any first choice targets. 

We played some great football during his first season and if we'd bought the right players then there was a great foundation to build upon going into the second season and there's no reason we to think we couldn't have kicked on from there and continued playing good football like we had the previous year. 

Conte played with a back 5 every single game after the loss to Arsenal. The same formation he played with Italy. He changed the formation from one he didn't like to one he always used. 
He wasn't flexible. The only flexibility he had was to make the team more defensive and it is why we went backwards in the second season. If we didnt sack Conte (and I believe he essentially quit) then we would still be playing with a back 5. I don't believe he would have rebuilt the team at all. The football would be dire and we would be comfortably in 6th. 
Additionally, Conte wanted to leave after the first season. He didn't sign an extension. He wanted total control which no top club offers a manager anymore. 

You claimed Conte wasn't flexible. And you also emphasized that he changed his formation after the loss to Arsenal which eventually got the best out of the team.
What actually does it mean to be flexible? Because if Sarri can also do something he has never done in his career by changing from his one and only 4-3-3 formation to any other one that will strengthen us defensively and still get the best out of our team right now, I will start believing in him.

35 minutes ago, wallosh said:

You claimed Conte wasn't flexible. And you also emphasized that he changed his formation after the loss to Arsenal which eventually got the best out of the team.
What actually does it mean to be flexible? Because if Sarri can also do something he has never done in his career by changing from his one and only 4-3-3 formation to any other one that will strengthen us defensively and still get the best out of our team right now, I will start believing in him.

Conte was always going to change formation to his set up. Conte wasn't flexible, he just let the old way die on its ass before insisting on his style.

Sarri went straight in with his style.

Both equally inflexible.

Which is fine, it's their style. But styles typically take time to work.

Edited February 13, 20197 yr by bisright1