Barring a sudden loss of form for United I cannot see us making top 4 any more. Even if we recover from our recent poor run we would need to gain more points than United in the last 12 games. United probably will probably drop a few points here and there but I still expect them to reach close to 80 points. I don't see us getting close.

13 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Barring a sudden loss of form for United I cannot see us making top 4 any more. Even if we recover from our recent poor run we would need to gain more points than United in the last 12 games. United probably will probably drop a few points here and there but I still expect them to reach close to 80 points. I don't see us getting close.

United have a very difficult run of fixtures coming up where I expect them to drop quite a few points. Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal (away), Palace (Away), in their next 5 league games. Plus they also have to play PSG twice and us at Stamford Bridge in the FA Cup. I fancy us to be 4th by mid March. It helps that our 2 top 4 rivals need to play each other.

I think top 4 will probably come down to our game at Old Trafford on 27th April.

Just now, DannyVblue said:

United have a very difficult run of fixtures coming up where I expect them to drop quite a few points. Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal (away), Palace (Away), in their next 5 league games. Plus they also have to play PSG twice and us at Stamford Bridge in the FA Cup. I fancy us to be 4th by mid March. It helps that our 2 top 4 rivals need to play each other.

I think top 4 will probably come down to our game at Old Trafford on 27th April.

I hope you are right and your optimism is appreciated as always :).

Personally I feel like United have the bit between their teeth now but they may well lose their form again at some point. I hope they beat Liverpool at least. After that of course I hope the wheels come off their season ;)

4 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

Under Mourinho 11 points behind us. He leaves, they’re 4th now. Say whatever you want about Man United but that squad clearly is capable of a top 4 finish.

 

2 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

We had a 11 point head start over Utd and are now 1 point behind which shows the rut we are in, if we finish behind Utd it would be a very bad season.

 

26 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Barring a sudden loss of form for United I cannot see us making top 4 any more. 

 

5 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I hope you are right and your optimism is appreciated as always :).

Personally I feel like United have the bit between their teeth now but they may well lose their form again at some point. 

United have played nobody under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer with the exception of the Spuds.  They were always going to pick up those points, regardless of who was their manager.  As someone else said above, they have a few more testing opponents coming up soon.  Then we'll see if their improvement is permanent or temporary.

1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

 

 

 

United have played nobody under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer with the exception of the Spuds.  They were always going to pick up those points, regardless of who was their manager.  As someone else said above, they have a few more testing opponents coming up soon.  Then we'll see if their improvement is permanent or temporary.

I'd like to share your optimism @yorkleyblue.

United looked shocking when Jose was there. But right now they have the momentum and when a team has good players and they are playing with confidence, anything is possible. We might have a couple of Top players (Hazard & Kante) and you could argue United's are not as good but in players like Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Lingard & Sanchez they have more quality in depth and have decent pace, which will trouble any side.

We CAN beat them, but not if we play anything like we did against City, Arsenal & Bournemouth or if Sarri thinks it remains a good idea to stick with the same old - that will play right into United's hands.

I'm still Sarri in, but can't fault a single person for being Sarri out after the last two away matches. 10-0 is beyond embarrassing. I think if we really want to change the style of play, we can't just give up on the manager. I think if we get behind him and give more than 2 years then we might be able to play the style of football that he wants. The issue is: I don't know if Roman will be that patient. I also think the things Pep said after the match (maybe it was before the match I can't remember) about needing the owners to be 100% committed to the cause is also telling. 

In all reality, if they do decide to sack Sarri, they need to completely look at how the entire club handles its business, not just look at the manager. The club seem directionless, especially with no Director of Football. The absolute unwillingness to give young players a chance because we didn't spend money on them (I don't know why else the likes of KDB, Lukaku, Chalobah, etc didn't even get a chance). It would be one thing if they are bringing a certain style of players and the direction is clear, but the recruitment has been wrong. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

I don't know if Sarri will be able to win any trophies here, but he is in a final (granted against the side that just beat the bejesus out of us). But I do think he deserves more than 5 months to implement his style. Maybe if he isn't able to get us trophies he can direct us into a style of football that is more attack-minded and can lay the foundation for the next manager to come in, but sacking him after 5 or 6 months doesn't feel right to me. But, this is Chelsea and it wouldn't surprised me if they did sack him 

Utd was still 11 points behind at Christmas and now 1 point ahead, if Chelsea finish behind Utd at the end of season then Sarri has still f**ked it up, it doesn't matter that Utd have only had 1 game against the big teams. Utd can play Sanchez, Lukaku, Mata one game and then Martial, Rashford and Lingard the next, the attacking threat they have is lethal and all would get in Chelsea's team. If Mourinho hadn't made a mess of it at the start I don't think Chelsea or Arsenal would have had a chance at top 4, both teams are in transition this season.

6 hours ago, abramovich said:

I think vast majority agrees that a number of players need to be shipped out, that's a given.

The question is, is Sarri to be trusted to oversee the overhaul. I think, since quite a few of the current lot should be sold in the summer anyway, the owner/board may as well write the season off and let the squad know that the manager stays, no matter what. Then wait and see for the rest of the season if Sarri is actually capable of learning how to deal with challenges of competing in a more competitive league and adapting his system according to it. Because so far the signs are very worrying, and if that's his stance now, I wouldn't trust him with any other group of players, because his arrogance and refusal to change/adapt is going to hurt any squad, regardless of personnel.

This is my problem with Sarri. I don't trust that he has what it takes for the big games.
Mourinho could play the big games, Conte could play the big games. Sarri looks defeated as soon as things go bad and the players look simply uninspired, last game only Higuain tried to shoot and got blocked a few times and that's the only real will to do something, a few blocked shots, totally predictable.

Now I know that it takes time for his football, but what guarantee do we have that even with better players Sarri wouldn't bottle big games?

Because his tactic is just to pass and move with the ball and we can't have a 100% possession in any game but it really looks like that as soon as we don't have the ball, nobody knows how to play defense.

Bournemouth showed that even if they got the ball for maybe 2.5 minutes in every 10 minutes that it's enough to score against us, this last game Jorginho commits a casual foul at the midfield area that looked totally harmless but right after the foul there is a player totally free and a goal chance and there we go we trail and don't see any end in the tunnel.

Why is it so easy for the opposition to get into a goal chance as soon as our players don't have the ball? Does Sarri only train them the "Sarriball" meaning to just pass pass and move move?

Fact is Sarri is arrogant and doesn't care to change up things at all, he's the ONLY manager that never changed a formation this season. But the problem is that nobody out there is impressed by his tactics anymore, it comes down to the same thing every game, if we early on score we will probably win but if things go bad from the start it's doomed. Sure 1 season he got over 90 points and 18 clean sheets but he still didn't win anything, he would be fine with that result with Spurs they think it's more important to be in top 4 than winning. 

 

He's gone no turning this round. Everyone knew that Jose was gone from Man United if they lost to Newcastle when they were 2-0 down a few weeks later he was out Sarri is just one bad performance away from the boot. I'm old enough to remember when we lost 7-0 to Forest and the monumental piss taking I got was brought horribly back yesterday but the Chelsea team of 91 and today are chasms apart.

Only two of yesterday's starting 11 are regular starters for their international teams in Hazard and Kante that's not good enough for a club of our stature.

5 minutes ago, Passed It said:

He's gone no turning this round. Everyone knew that Jose was gone from Man United if they lost to Newcastle when they were 2-0 down a few weeks later he was out Sarri is just one bad performance away from the boot. I'm old enough to remember when we lost 7-0 to Forest and the monumental piss taking I got was brought horribly back yesterday but the Chelsea team of 91 and today are chasms apart.

Only two of yesterday's starting 11 are regular starters for their international teams in Hazard and Kante that's not good enough for a club of our stature.

I too remember the 7-0 at Forest, and numerous hammerings in the days of the old second division. I am curious to see how you think much will change by getting rid of Sarri though? As you correctly point out our current squad is not good enough. Another manager might be able to get a bit more out of them with a more limiting style. Notably Conte massively overachieved with his system, but it could only last so long without further backing from the club. At some point surely the club has to stick with a manager and allow them to complete the overhaul of the squad with a new system, or we will be stuck on this continual cycle. And unlike previous seasons we don't seem to have the leaders in the squad that might be able to inspire the others to higher levels of achievement.

I was up at Forest that day too yet it was about 20 years without a trophy not like now as recent EPL champions.

Ultimately the call will come from RA, it is interesting that Sarri says he has not heard from the manager. RA whether he wants to remain as owner of CFC or not will want to protect his investment. He will be having thoughts on this you can be sure.  One more bad defeat in the near future and it will be curtains, IMO.

34 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Utd can play Sanchez, Lukaku, Mata one game and then Martial, Rashford and Lingard the next, the attacking threat they have is lethal and all would get in Chelsea's team.

No they wouldn't.

Sanchez is on 400k a week and has scored one goal this season. Looks like his legs have gone.

Rashford has all the body strength and intelligence of Worzel Gummage.

This Utd side is massively overrated, They all downed tools under Mourinho and now Ole has put his arm around them to console them they've started trying a bit more? What a bunch of premadonnas.

5 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I too remember the 7-0 at Forest, and numerous hammerings in the days of the old second division. I am curious to see how you think much will change by getting rid of Sarri though? As you correctly point out our current squad is not good enough. Another manager might be able to get a bit more out of them with a more limiting style. Notably Conte massively overachieved with his system, but it could only last so long without further backing from the club. At some point surely the club has to stick with a manager and allow them to complete the overhaul of the squad with a new system, or we will be stuck on this continual cycle. And unlike previous seasons we don't seem to have the leaders in the squad that might be able to inspire the others to higher levels of achievement.

I don't have the answers I just believe that there's no coming back from the results against Bournemouth and City and he's one bad result away from the sack. I don't believe in this a manager needs more time football especially Chelsea is a cut throat business and if you're not performing you're out. Think as well this leaders thing is a bit of a cliche Spurs seem to be doing ok no real leaders at Man City or Liverpool for that matter just well coached footballers who believe in their manager and the system they are playing.

Just now, Luca Vialli said:

No they wouldn't.

Sanchez is on 400k a week and has scored one goal this season. Looks like his legs have gone.

Rashford has all the body strength and intelligence of Worzel Gummage.

This Utd side is massively overrated, They all downed tools under Mourinho and now Ole has put his arm around them to console them they've started trying a bit more? What a bunch of premadonnas.

All the wingers would get in before Pedro or Willian, Rashford or Lukaku would play up front. Sanchez has looked good since Mourinho has left and being on 400k doesn't matter, its just about quality.

6 minutes ago, Luca Vialli said:

No they wouldn't.

Sanchez is on 400k a week and has scored one goal this season. Looks like his legs have gone.

Rashford has all the body strength and intelligence of Worzel Gummage.

This Utd side is massively overrated, They all downed tools under Mourinho and now Ole has put his arm around them to console them they've started trying a bit more? What a bunch of premadonnas.

United's group aren't much different from our lot. They play well when they feel like it. I'm sure they will react badly at the first sign off trouble.

United have many more options up front and OGS was there yesterday taking notes.

6 minutes ago, Passed It said:

I don't have the answers I just believe that there's no coming back from the results against Bournemouth and City and he's one bad result away from the sack. I don't believe in this a manager needs more time football especially Chelsea is a cut throat business and if you're not performing you're out. Think as well this leaders thing is a bit of a cliche Spurs seem to be doing ok no real leaders at Man City or Liverpool for that matter just well coached footballers who believe in their manager and the system they are playing.

I think it was Mikel that revealed the importance the likes of JT/Drogs/Frank had in raising the team through this kind of crisis in the past. We are lacking that same kind of strength among the players right now. You might be right about Spurs and Liverpool. Certainly that would explain why they have fallen short in their quests for a trophy in recent times. City do seem to have more character in their ranks though. Kompany is a great leader for them. And in their case they benefit from huge investment in the squad. I think we can all agree that, regardless of Sarri's future, we would need some significant investment to compete with the likes of City again. However I don't have confidence that the club is run by the right people to do that any more.   

3 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I think it was Mikel that revealed the importance the likes of JT/Drogs/Frank had in raising the team through this kind of crisis in the past. We are lacking that same kind of strength among the players right now. You might be right about Spurs and Liverpool. Certainly that would explain why they have fallen short in their quests for a trophy in recent times. City do seem to have more character in their ranks though. Kompany is a great leader for them. And in their case they benefit from huge investment in the squad. I think we can all agree that, regardless of Sarri's future, we would need some significant investment to compete with the likes of City again. However I don't have confidence that the club is run by the right people to do that any more.   

I was just about to say the same thing regarding Kompany, I'm sure Pep said recently how important he is behind the scenes and I can imagine it's like JT with us at the end of his career.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

I'd like to share your optimism @yorkleyblue.

United looked shocking when Jose was there. But right now they have the momentum and when a team has good players and they are playing with confidence, anything is possible. We might have a couple of Top players (Hazard & Kante) and you could argue United's are not as good but in players like Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Lingard & Sanchez they have more quality in depth and have decent pace, which will trouble any side.

We CAN beat them, but not if we play anything like we did against City, Arsenal & Bournemouth or if Sarri thinks it remains a good idea to stick with the same old - that will play right into United's hands.

Not really optimism,  @Nibs, just trying to  get some  proportion and reality injected into what has really turned into a whine-fest.  Yes, united have overtaken us for now, but they haven't played anyone decent since  Mourinho got the chop. I'm not going to run round saying the sky is falling in because we are 1 point off 4th under those circumstances.  We have a lot of people who don't really think these things through.  United beat a load of relegation fodder so they're obviously going to challenge for the league now, right?  All I say is let's wait and see when they actually play a top half team.  It might be that Solskjaer is truly the reincarnation of Ferguson, or it might be that they had a good run against teams they should expect to be beating.

 

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Not really optimism,  @Nibs, just trying to  get some  proportion and reality injected into what has really turned into a whine-fest.  Yes, united have overtaken us for now, but they haven't played anyone decent since  Mourinho got the chop. I'm not going to run round saying the sky is falling in because we are 1 point off 4th under those circumstances.  We have a lot of people who don't really think these things through.  United beat a load of relegation fodder so they're obviously going to challenge for the league now, right?  All I say is let's wait and see when they actually play a top half team.  It might be that Solskjaer is truly the reincarnation of Ferguson, or it might be that they had a good run against teams they should expect to be beating.

 

They beat Spurs at Wembley under Solskjaer. Granted, it took world class performance from De Gea to pull it off, but they did it.

I do agree though that their kind schedule post Jose helped them to turn things around and get the confidence back.

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Not really optimism,  @Nibs, just trying to  get some  proportion and reality injected into what has really turned into a whine-fest.  Yes, united have overtaken us for now, but they haven't played anyone decent since  Mourinho got the chop. I'm not going to run round saying the sky is falling in because we are 1 point off 4th under those circumstances.  We have a lot of people who don't really think these things through.  United beat a load of relegation fodder so they're obviously going to challenge for the league now, right?  All I say is let's wait and see when they actually play a top half team.  It might be that Solskjaer is truly the reincarnation of Ferguson, or it might be that they had a good run against teams they should expect to be beating.

 

I admire your positivity!

You could argue we should be beating Southampton, Leicester and Bournemouth...............but we didn't.

IF we were not winning but playing well, I'm sure there wouldn't be so much doom & gloom but some of these performances are giving cause for concern, whilst United are playing a LOT better than they were under TSO.

 

1 minute ago, abramovich said:

They beat Spurs at Wembley under Solskjaer. Granted, it took world class performance from De Gea to pull it off, but they did it.

I do agree though that their kind schedule post Jose helped them to turn things around and get the confidence back.

Like I said, haven't beaten anyone worth considering.

1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

Like I said, haven't beaten anyone worth considering.

14 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I admire your positivity!

You could argue we should be beating Southampton, Leicester and Bournemouth...............but we didn't.

IF we were not winning but playing well, I'm sure there wouldn't be so much doom & gloom but some of these performances are giving cause for concern, whilst United are playing a LOT better than they were under TSO.

 

And I do argue that, of course we should, but you're old enough @Nibs, you know sh*t happens, football is a funny old game, saint.

I don't think we actually played that badly against City, to read all the sh*t in here you'd think we played like a pub team, kick and rush.  Sometimes you just have to put your hand up and say that we came up against a much better team and got beaten.  Losing to Bournemouth was much worse, in my view, but the desperate bitch-whining about losing a couple of matches and so we got to sack the manager is just f**king stupid and indicative of just how spoilt we have become, as if we have a god-given right to win all our matches and be top of the league.

Last year it was Watford and Bournemouth back-to-back and there were the same spoilt brat children  wanting the manager sacked.  Some bugger said these were the WORST. RESULTS. EVER. ( or in his lifetime,  anyway) Prick must be about 3 years old or has only been a "fan" for a couple of years.  Wasn't that long ago we lost 3-0 at home to Sunderland.  And got kicked out of the FA Cup at home by Bradford or some other northern pub team.  Both of those were MUCH worse than losing to this City side.

And that's without going back to the good old days.  What the f**k would these people be like if we get relegated again?

 

Still, at least only a few of the regular idiots managed to blame Willian for this one, eh?

Edited February 11, 20197 yr by yorkleyblue

2 hours ago, forbzy said:

I hope you are right and your optimism is appreciated as always :).

Personally I feel like United have the bit between their teeth now but they may well lose their form again at some point. I hope they beat Liverpool at least. After that of course I hope the wheels come off their season ;)

These runs do often come to an end when you least expect it though, I find