3 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

OK, Ernie, exactly what strikers were available and willing to move did our sh*te board miss out on buying, and exactly why is it that you think they didn't buy them?

There is nothing like a bit of sensationalist knee-jerk over-reaction to brighten up my day.  Obviously you don't watch Chelsea much.  That wasn't even the worst performance this year, and probably not even the worst performance this month.

Get a grip on reality and stop being such a diva queen.

He should of been at school with me in the late 70's early 80's, would never of handled the sh*t us of certain vintage took from armchair Liverpool and United fans back in the day.

11 minutes ago, Elliott said:

Sorry, but I'm not sure I see your point. I agree regarding the support, but that doesn't mean we should blindly accept the fact that our football has been awful for three months and shows no obvious sign of improvement, or for that matter, attempts by the manager to change it. 

Afraid I disagree on the defensive point. I would argue that our defence is much worse than our attack. We have kept 7 league clean sheets this season and unless that is addressed first, results will not improve. Frank is paid (and will know full well) that it's his responsibility to come up with solutions, yet we see hardly any change on the pitch from week to week. It's not necessarily that it's easy to criticize rather, the only observation that can be made. Our defence is woeful!

I don't think it's harsh to say that it's time he stopped trying to kid us all in his post-match interviews, and it's time we started seeing improvements rather than just talk. 

As I say, it's hard to take the criticism when you have no ideas about how to resolve the problems.

Of course it's harsh to say "stop kidding us". It sounds like you think he is doing this deliberately and that he is entirely to blame.

You need to read between the lines when it comes to Franks post match interviews. He hasn't got the experience and quality he needs in key roles and you demanding improvements is just wrong to put it mildly.

Frank is very intelligent and I trust him to do his best under almost impossible conditions. He will make mistakes as everybody does but you jumping on his back is uncalled for.

What exactly is it you want him to do?

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

I understand what Davey is saying, Frank has done an incredible job, no doubt about it. He's put us in the driving seat when many thought it wasn't possible, it's just that he seems to be making a lot of strange and silly calls lately. Now I'm not too interested in hindsight, that's why I say what I say before the match has kicked off, I don't think Frank can be blamed for yesterday, the lack of options for him are obvious. 

But it does look like we're not learning from mistakes, I guess it is a season long progress, it's just kind of frightening how bad we are in some areas still. 

Apart from being averse to playing Giroud, I'm not sure he's put much of a foot wrong. He's been let down by the board this season. He's had no choice but to rely on a young striker who is playing in the PL for the first time in years.

Mount and James, another two players who are new to the PL, and if what is said is true, Mount has been playing through pain for the past few months. Hudson-Odoi is another player who has apparently been playing through pain for while, as well as struggling to get up to form. James is a gem. Tomori is another new young player to the league, as is Pulisic. 

Apart from those, we have a mainly inexperienced side with a sprinkling of aging and mediocre players, including Willian, Pedro, Azpi, Alonso, Emerson, Barkley, Michy and Giroud. Rudiger is good, but not a fantastic CB. He isn't a CB who is going to make our defence more assured like someone such as VVD has done at Liverpool.

Let us be honest here. If we didn't have Hazard last season, where would we have finished? I would imagine around 8th-10th place, maybe lower. We don't have Hazard this season and are floating around 4th-6th place this season.

We are doing better than we should be if honest, and that's only because Abraham has performed so well this season, to our surprise. I have no idea where we will finish this season, but once we have all our key players fit again, I am optimistic. 

12 hours ago, just said:

Not often I disagree with you Davey, but I definitely do here. You accept there are mitigating circumstances but feel they are overstated. Fair enough it's your view, but I have similar view on what you perceive as being down to poor coaching. Your statement on poor movement, which you feel is the most glaring weakness, is a case in point. I actually feel our forward movement and passing speed, for much of this season anyway, has been the most impressive and enjoyable to watch since we had Duff and Robben in the team. What has let us down is the quality of the finishing. And I'm not aiming that solely at the strikers. We don't have enough goals chipped in from our midfielders, certainly not for the amount of balls and players we commit into the opposition box. 

Set pieces I would tend to agree on. Like you I am not a fan of zonal marking Davey but player for player we are a relatively small team and arguably Zouma and Giroud  aside we don't have anyone else who is aerially dominant. Likewise we currently have no central midfielders that offer a real physical presence along with being decent on the ball. 

No doubt we are a work in progress but I do see progress. I actually thought we would finish 6th or 7th this season but of course I would hate to see top 4 slip away now when we have been up there for so long. However, bottom line for me is Frank has taken over at a difficult time, in difficult circumstances and he may well be learning on the job. But the respect and admiration I feel in the way he has conducted himself, communicated with the press and represented our club throughout it all means he will get my total backing wherever we finish this season.

 

He has my total backing and I wouldn't swap him for anyone else. That's not the point. I'm judging his managerial ability on what I see, not on who he is or how I feel about him. If he were any other manager he'd be being judged a lot harsher by a lot of posters here, despite the mitigating factors.

 

Let's look at those mitigating factors. Zouma, Pulisic, Kovacic. That's not a bad summer for a club with a transfer ban. James, Tammy, Mount, Tomori, Callum. All very worthy of being in our squad, and all more or less new players. Yes we lost Hazard, yes Frank hasn't been able to bring his own players in, yes expectations were low as a consequence, particularly as Frank is new to all this. I actually expected us to finish in the bottom half. I don't see these difficult circumstances you describe. The Chelsea boss is usually under intense pressure to deliver instantly. Not this time. The Chelsea boss usually has the press on his back from day one. The press absolutely love Frank. I'd say this was the best possible time for him to take over and get his feet under the table, and let's face it, were it not for these circumstances, he might not have got the job in the first place. He's here precisely because the pressure's off, at least in the short term.

 

I look at teams like Sheffield Utd, Wolves, Leicester, and I see teams that play well, that are clearly coached well. Teams with a method, with a strategy. Teams that make the best of what they've got. Teams that look like a cohesive, well-drilled unit. I don't see that with us. I see our midfielders pick up the ball in our own half and struggle to make a progressive pass, because they lack options, because we have no pattern. Team selections are puzzling too. Barkley was given a chance, played really well in a couple of games, consigned to the bench, even though Mount is really struggling. Christensen continually being picked is another strange one. Kante being picked on reputation solely, etc etc.

 

Our form over the last 15 games is really poor, relegation form. We're better than that. 15 games can't be considered a slump. He has to arrest the decline. We had an amazing chance of finishing top four, but we started dropping points, and Frank's been powerless to change that. He thinks it's all about finishing. It ain't. It's about something far more structural, in my opinion, but Frank can't seem to see it, or remedy it in my opinion, and that makes me worry for his chances of ever becoming a top coach.

 

I want him to do well, I want him to be given time, I'd love us to stick with him and give him a proper chance, even if we're really floundering, but ultimately he has to prove he's the real deal, and judging on the little evidence we have so far, I don't think there's any evidence of that. I hope that he learns and develops into one, obviously.

Our current poor form is only likely to improve through 1 of 2 things in the short term:

1) We return to our scoring form of October/November and start outscoring teams again. This would require not only Tammy hit another good run of form but also the likes of Mount, Pulisic etc.

2) We start keeping clean sheets on a regular basis

I think the first option is more likely, especially when key players return from injury. I cannot see too many improvements defensively this season as we are likely to continue with our goalkeeping issues, and our current defensive options are limited. I would certainly prefer to see Christensen demoted to the 4th option of Center Backs as I feel he has proven consistently that he is a weak link. Rudiger hasn't been perfect but is probably the first choice and I would like to see Tomori get some starts alongside him. In goal Kepa is probably rated as a better overall keeper than Willy, but the way things stand I'm not sure about his future at the club. With that in mind Frank may prefer to stick with Willy for the rest of the season.

54 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

I want him to do well, I want him to be given time, I'd love us to stick with him and give him a proper chance, even if we're really floundering, but ultimately he has to prove he's the real deal, and judging on the little evidence we have so far, I don't think there's any evidence of that. I hope that he learns and develops into one, obviously.

How can you write that you expected us to finish in the bottom half of the table at the beginning of your post and then this to end it?

Genuine question considering we are currently fourth in the table. Surely Lampard have then exceeded your expectations so far?

I agree with all that except the board comment. I think they expect us to get CL football that's why they didn't bother investing in January. They're confident Frank can see this out. 

I mostly meant Frank's position is pretty safe without CL. I feel that is the case.

I think once some of our injured players come back, we will start to pick up some form. Tammy or Pulisic in this game could have really made the difference in us getting a draw or at least sneaking a win. 

Edited February 18, 20206 yr by Frankie8Lampard

I love Frankie like anyone else, those perfectly timed runs from midfield were magical, you knew it was coming the opposition knew it was coming but they couldn't do much to stop it,  but we need to be objective like we would with any other manager, "some" of you need to take off the blue tinted glasses.

I keep hearing the excuses that "well what can he do", "hes not got any options" well if these are all true which some are, why doesn't he be a MANAGER adjust to the situation and change the approach to start getting back some confidence into the team, grind out some results, isn't that what good managers do??

This expansive way of playing will only end up one way if the team is not setup correctly and based on results IT'S obviously not setup correctly.

You could play two Kantes in-front of the back 4 (not his position but some still subscribe to this) we would still be one of the most open teams on the league.

Southampton got battered by Leicester and what did the manager do, continue to try and play the same way or change??

Lampard is being lauded for being intelligent and having a high IQ but his actions aren't providing any evidence of that at all 

Albert Einstein "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

Sarri got blasted for "Sarri-Ball" and not having a Plan B, does anyone know our Plan A, serious question?

I would love a Chelsea hero be our most successful manager but if he cant show signs of being a manger who knows how to adapt and change, i don't think the board will have any trouble in letting him go.

Based on what we have seen so far, he maybe starting to rub them the wrong way already.

5 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

OK, Ernie, exactly what strikers were available and willing to move did our sh*te board miss out on buying, and exactly why is it that you think they didn't buy them?

There is nothing like a bit of sensationalist knee-jerk over-reaction to brighten up my day.  Obviously you don't watch Chelsea much.  That wasn't even the worst performance this year, and probably not even the worst performance this month.

Get a grip on reality and stop being such a diva queen.

Paitek, Mandzukic, Haaland, Alcacer, Bergwijn, Carrasco, Suso are all deals that happened in Janaury and would all offer more as a striker than Batman and Giroud. Rumours of Mertens and Cavani all January, I dont know if they was available but I can't imagine Cavani wanted to sit on the bench for 5 months. Let's not all get defensive over the board, they had a whole month to sign someone in a position every fan could see we needed, it's not like there are a select number of players, if you want a player you can get them even if you have to pay more in wages. IMO signing someone of the quality of Cavani increase the chances of top 4 by a big amount, i see paying his wages as worth it

2 hours ago, chi blue said:

He should of been at school with me in the late 70's early 80's, would never of handled the sh*t us of certain vintage took from armchair Liverpool and United fans back in the day.

It was the same in the 90's too, all the southern armchair Utd and Liverpool fans, I saw there teams play more than all of them put together.

To add to this, when Jose when to Anfield and beat Liverpool he basically put together a team that shouldn't have won but he when there with a plan each and every player knew their role what they needed to do what position to be in at all phases of the game and he MANAGED the situation and we ended up with the forever moment that will live in history " Slippery G"

None of our players seem to know what their actual role is tactically.

Frank needs to really take a step back lets start by stop conceding goals and work from there.....if we don't concede we don't lose.

 

Edited February 18, 20206 yr by Brutos

11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

How can you write that you expected us to finish in the bottom half of the table at the beginning of your post and then this to end it?

Genuine question considering we are currently fourth in the table. Surely Lampard have then exceeded your expectations so far?

 

This time last season we had a lot more points and I think we were outside the top four. Spurs, Utd and Arsenal all tailed off really badly in the last third of the season. This season, we're fourth, but on a remarkably low points tally, and our remaining fixtures look by far the hardest on paper. The way we've been playing for a long time now, it's very hard to see us getting top four, but we'll see. Yes, we've done better than I expected, but that's due to a winning streak early doors,  when we were buoyed by a feel-good factor. Since then we've dipped alarmingly and you find out about a manager when things are going badly. As I say, I'm fully behind him, I'm just saying it as I see it. I'm not writing him off by any means and I don't think anybody is, I'm just saying I haven't seen evidence so far that he's going to be the real deal, but maybe it's too early to tell.

My take briefly. Let’s all just relax, lower our expectations a bit. That’ll at least make it easier to get some enjoyment out of the rest of the season. I agree with many of the points made by Davey above:

- Lampard IS making lots of mistakes.

- Something seems to be wrong with the coaching.

- We don’t seem to be making progress.

My main counter would be: 

Yes, Frank is really inexperienced, as Davey says, but the process of gaining experience, learning etc is non-linear. We all identify with this on some level, whether it’s learning a job, a musical instrument, a sport... you go through periods of frustration and feeling like it’s just not working. Then things click, there’s a seminal moment where progress is made.

the obvious counter to this might be:’ STFU centrist dad! This is elite level football and we don’t have the luxury of being able to go through a long dry patch of losing games. Results are pretty key...’

to which I’d say: sure. BUT our current run of form isn’t nearly a big enough sample on which to judge and say with any conviction that Lampard ISN’T making progress as a coach. He may well be - it’s just beneath the surface for now.  I made similar arguments re Sarri last year. Oddly enough we’re pretty much bang on the anniversary of THAT cup to defeat v mancs when Zappacosta came on. I nearly lost it then too. But things  started to turn around, albeit slowly (and again oddly enough) with the victory at home against Tottenham. And then everything looked much better by the end of the season. Whether you rated him or not- Sarri was learning too and things weren’t as bad as they seemed. We may be in a similar spot now. At any rate we need to give Lampard at least till the end of the season, and preferably longer.

2 hours ago, enigma said:

Apart from being averse to playing Giroud, I'm not sure he's put much of a foot wrong. He's been let down by the board this season. He's had no choice but to rely on a young striker who is playing in the PL for the first time in years.

Mount and James, another two players who are new to the PL, and if what is said is true, Mount has been playing through pain for the past few months. Hudson-Odoi is another player who has apparently been playing through pain for while, as well as struggling to get up to form. James is a gem. Tomori is another new young player to the league, as is Pulisic. 

Apart from those, we have a mainly inexperienced side with a sprinkling of aging and mediocre players, including Willian, Pedro, Azpi, Alonso, Emerson, Barkley, Michy and Giroud. Rudiger is good, but not a fantastic CB. He isn't a CB who is going to make our defence more assured like someone such as VVD has done at Liverpool.

Good post, when you see the amount of youngsters who have had to be first team players and the amount of average aging players its not a great squad. Kante who is world class has been injured or average, Rudiger injured or average, Jorginho hasn't exactly been great and these are all our experienced players. When you put down the players on your list too Lamps has done well to get top 4.

I just think Lampard need to start play it a lot more safe than usual.

This expansive football is not doing us any favor. 6 months into the season and you can see we don't have the personnel to play the football he wants.

He showed us he can do it in the game against Spurs, so I know he has it in his locker.

Loads of problems at the moment. 

I think its hard to place too much of the blame on lampard, how many of these players are playing significantly worse than they have been over the last 2 season? 

The older players are in a steady decline, which is to be expected, and the young players in fairly inconsistent, which is also expected. 

The squad requires major surgery. 

Goalkeeper - kepa and Cabellero not good enough

Left Back - Azpi, Emerson, Alonso not good enough

Centre backs - All 6/10 in my opinion, not alot between them. Put any of them next to a genuinely quality centre back snd i think we would be okay.

Right back - fine James is good, Azpi, is solid back up.

Centre mid - Kovacic has been good, Jorginho okay, Kante okay but injuries are a major concern now. We control the game okay, but we lack physicality defensively, and we lack guile in this area going forward.

Attacking midfield - Mount has done well on the whole, Barkley isnt good enough. 

Wingers - Willian and pedro arent good enough. Capable of the odd moment still, but dont produce regularly enough. Pulisic has done well, CHO has been a bit iffy, but he has come back from injury. 

Strikers - Abraham better than expected, but misses too many big chances. Gioroud has hada sniff, but like batshuayi he isnt good enough either. 

So this is what lamps is working with, i predicted we would finish 7th before the start of the season, but due to a decent run of form, and the total imposion of 3 of our main rivals, i felt we would finish 4th. Now it just seems this squad is slipping back to where it should be. 

I dont really get how some fans can call out a bunch of players, but at the same time call out the manager.

Granted lampard can and will improve, but i think we have to accept that the squad he has got is a top 6 team at best. 

We are way off the pace, its very unlikely we will finish in a champions league spot, but theres only so much lampard or any can do with this squad. I dont even think we will get close to addressing all the problems in one summer. Its going 2 summer windows, before we have a team that can be comfortably in the top 4. 

1 hour ago, Ledgerson said:

I just think Lampard need to start play it a lot more safe than usual.

This expansive football is not doing us any favor. 6 months into the season and you can see we don't have the personnel to play the football he wants.

He showed us he can do it in the game against Spurs, so I know he has it in his locker.

This is all am asking for reign it in a bit lets just the basics right first .....lets stop this Hollywood type of football and trying looking playing some acting schools football.

2 hours ago, Brutos said:

I love Frankie like anyone else, those perfectly timed runs from midfield were magical, you knew it was coming the opposition knew it was coming but they couldn't do much to stop it,  but we need to be objective like we would with any other manager, "some" of you need to take off the blue tinted glasses.

I keep hearing the excuses that "well what can he do", "hes not got any options" well if these are all true which some are, why doesn't he be a MANAGER adjust to the situation and change the approach to start getting back some confidence into the team, grind out some results, isn't that what good managers do??

This expansive way of playing will only end up one way if the team is not setup correctly and based on results IT'S obviously not setup correctly.

You could play two Kantes in-front of the back 4 (not his position but some still subscribe to this) we would still be one of the most open teams on the league.

Southampton got battered by Leicester and what did the manager do, continue to try and play the same way or change??

Lampard is being lauded for being intelligent and having a high IQ but his actions aren't providing any evidence of that at all 

Albert Einstein "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

Sarri got blasted for "Sarri-Ball" and not having a Plan B, does anyone know our Plan A, serious question?

I would love a Chelsea hero be our most successful manager but if he cant show signs of being a manger who knows how to adapt and change, i don't think the board will have any trouble in letting him go.

Based on what we have seen so far, he maybe starting to rub them the wrong way already.

The issue with what you said about changing things up is, he can't polish a turd. Previous managers like Conte and Sarri had one of or both Hazard and Costa. We currently have a weaker side than we had then. Willian is 2/3 years older, as is Alonso, as is Pedro, etc. We have experienced players, but they are mediocre now. Who can Lampard bring on to change the game? We've lost our best players and never replaced them with quality. 

17 minutes ago, enigma said:

The issue with what you said about changing things up is, he can't polish a turd. Previous managers like Conte and Sarri had one of or both Hazard and Costa. We currently have a weaker side than we had then. Willian is 2/3 years older, as is Alonso, as is Pedro, etc. We have experienced players, but they are mediocre now. Who can Lampard bring on to change the game? We've lost our best players and never replaced them with quality. 

The experienced players are going at the end of the season. Maybe Willian can come from the bench for one more season but if we could get a better right winger I would let him go. The problem is we have to invest in a number of positions and to find the right players for all of those locations will be very hard.

The squad probably needs to go through the biggest transition it has seen since Abramovich. It could be argued we need to improve everywhere. The story of this season may not yet be apparent and a late change in fortune could yet materialise. Maybe Pulisic or one or two of the youngsters will step up.

We need Sancho. We need a left back. We need to see where we are at the end of the season and who is available but I'm not convinced we will get all of our targets because A) We may not have champions league football and B) the competition for quality will be fierce and C) I'm not convinced RA wants to re-invest the transfer kitty.

Comparative hard times but over the years Chelsea has risen to the challenges set out before it.

COYB.

The issue with what you said about changing things up is, he can't polish a turd. Previous managers like Conte and Sarri had one of or both Hazard and Costa. We currently have a weaker side than we had then. Willian is 2/3 years older, as is Alonso, as is Pedro, etc. We have experienced players, but they are mediocre now. Who can Lampard bring on to change the game? We've lost our best players and never replaced them with quality. 

Southampton got battered by Leicester has a worst squad but currently has better form. What changed after that embarrassing performance, they even went on to beat Leicester .
The manager saw the issue are tried to fix it.
So the polishing a Turd argument doesn't really stand up here with our current form and players.
Last 6 games here....[emoji848]

5 minutes ago, Brutos said:

Southampton got battered by Leicester has a worst squad but currently has better form. What changed after that embarrassing performance, they even went on to beat Leicester .
The manager saw the issue are tried to fix it.
So the polishing a Turd argument doesn't really stand up here with our current form and players.
Last 6 games here....

Southampton changed it up but didnt win in the next 4 games after the 9-0 loss. Plus in that 9-0 loss Southampton got a 12th minute red card and those sort of games happen every now and then. I dont think anyone can comment apart from Southampton fans whether the Southampton manager really changed things up like formation, players and tactics. 

Regarding Lampard I do agree there are certain things he could do but I also think his options are limited. The squad has old average players set in there ways and injuries. I have said this a few times now but I would have played a back 3 last night and brought Tomori on the left side. Played Alonso and James because we all know Pedro, Willian and Batman would not offer alot. I've seen Ole change it from a back 4 to a back 5 quite a few times this season. I would take our back 5 and midfield over Utd's and it would have made us more secure at the back, just my opinion though. 

RLC and Pulisic are badly missed. Pulisic has scored the same league goals as Willian, CHO and Pedro put together, RLC offer goals and strength. Add them to CHO and Abraham and it looks alot better.

It really does need Lampard to do something different to arrest the slide. We’re massively struggling and easily beat. 
 

Carragher did some good analysis last night where he looked at the space when we’re out of possession. There’s huge gaps everywhere for opposition players to run into. I can’t see why Lampard doesn’t get us playing more compact to help us defensively. A team that gives away easy and sloppy goals will never  go far.