5 hours ago, just said:

The criticism frequently levelled at Kante, Kovacic and Jorginho is that forward players make a run and then these 3, for whatever reason, don't attempt to make the pass. 

I don't necessarily agree with that, but today was the reverse. On a number of occasions today Gilmour made the pass but the forwards never made the run.The 2nd half sliding tackle to win the ball and then the quick forward through ball to CHO, which he didn't try and make, is just one example.

Yes, he is small and doesn't add any physical presence but his touch is really excellent and he has great vision. Already I have no qualms when I see his name on the team sheet.

 

Agreed. I thought he had a fube first half today then faded  little in the second. Thought it was right to take him off but was surprised it wasn't for Kante given the way the game was going and given it was international break coming up.

Gilmour is a great talent with massive potential. 

Need to keep Billy G at the club at all cost, #TheScottishXavi

His substitute scored the second goal so I'm not bothered that he didn't play 90 minutes, just happy that he got to start the game in the first place.

He has the potential but I wonder what position would be the best for him, for it took RLC some time to settle more centrally after it was too obvious that he's too tall and bulky in order to be a winger so I wonder if wee Billy can be played more forward as an inside forward/winger due to the fact that he wants to take on players and always looks forward, towards the opposition goal...

Edited March 22, 20215 yr by Gol15

He can become like Verratti, he will become indispensable, he needs game time,  and will easily do the Jorginho role.

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

He has the potential but I wonder what position would be the best for him

I think he played in his best position yesterday as part of a double pivot. 

Gives you chance to take turns of coming deep or pushing forward and doesn't leave you stranded to one part of the pitch. 

I see a similarity to Cesc Fabregas in the way he plays. Doesn't take too many touches, generally plays with his head up and looks to play the ball forward as much as possible and isn't afraid to try more difficult passes into the forwards. 

He'd be wasted if you pushed him too far up the pitch because you'd give him less of the pitch to work with. Players like him need the freedom of the midfield. 

Thought he did well. Do think he gets a littlebit of extra goodwill by some being a good lad and a youngster everyone wants to succeed. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever and i'm all for it but I doubt others would be praised for a similar performance in midfield.

We struggle with being a bit open in midfield when he's in there and he does get a bit bullied physically so that's concerning but he's still very young and hopefully he turns into a top player for us.

And to think Cesc was properly established in that Arsenal midfield well before being nearly 20.

To be fair , he is so aware of where space is, he is rarely caught in possession, We know Keane could mix it, but he usually just transitioned play by effortless simple passing.

Next season will be his proper establishment set out

14 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I think he played in his best position yesterday as part of a double pivot. 

Gives you chance to take turns of coming deep or pushing forward and doesn't leave you stranded to one part of the pitch. 

I see a similarity to Cesc Fabregas in the way he plays. Doesn't take too many touches, generally plays with his head up and looks to play the ball forward as much as possible and isn't afraid to try more difficult passes into the forwards. 

He'd be wasted if you pushed him too far up the pitch because you'd give him less of the pitch to work with. Players like him need the freedom of the midfield. 

He clearly needs the play and movement ahead of him for him to play the ball to feet or in behind, the further up the pitch he plays the more you neutralize his strengths.

Even with Fabregas whenever we played him in the number 10 role he struggled as he wasnt given the time on the ball and often received the ball with his back to goal however he did make things happen in the final third but he clearly was not a number 10.

I would be distraught if we killed the lads confidence by playing him higher up the pitch where he may not be able to truly fulfil his potential. 

29 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I think he played in his best position yesterday as part of a double pivot. 

Gives you chance to take turns of coming deep or pushing forward and doesn't leave you stranded to one part of the pitch. 

I see a similarity to Cesc Fabregas in the way he plays. Doesn't take too many touches, generally plays with his head up and looks to play the ball forward as much as possible and isn't afraid to try more difficult passes into the forwards. 

He'd be wasted if you pushed him too far up the pitch because you'd give him less of the pitch to work with. Players like him need the freedom of the midfield. 

I thought last season that he was the perfect player to keep doing what Jorginho has been doing, this season he has shown that he has good technique, a lot of technical ability and he was playing more forward like Kovacic and less like Jorginho, I do see him as a good central midfielder which he has been playing, specially in our system where we have the majority of possession.

Even so I'm wondering if he can have a role where he would focus more on attacking and looking to make the final ball because he has shown already that he isn't scared to go forward and to try some flicks or to shoot from outside of the box, even if it got blocked he has the right mentality so I'm wondering if he can become a more attacking oriented player too, he can turn with the ball fast and leave his marker in no time I'm guessing...

Maybe I'm way off but if he can dribble the ball and have a nice first touch like he's showing as his main quality, what's stopping him from becoming a new Mertens/Giovinco type of a player? I'm not complaining if he's the new Xavi either LOL just thinking out loud a bit  

Edited March 22, 20215 yr by Gol15

17 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I thought last season that he was the perfect player to keep doing what Jorginho has been doing, this season he has shown that he has good technique, a lot of technical ability and he was playing more forward like Kovacic and less like Jorginho, I do see him as a good central midfielder which he has been playing, specially in our system where we have the majority of possession.

Even so I'm wondering if he can have a role where he would focus more on attacking and looking to make the final ball because he has shown already that he isn't scared to go forward and to try some flicks or to shoot from outside of the box, even if it got blocked he has the right mentality so I'm wondering if he can become a more attacking oriented player too, he can turn with the ball fast and leave his marker in no time I'm guessing...

Maybe I'm way off but if he can dribble the ball and have a nice first touch like he's showing as his main quality, what's stopping him from becoming a new Mertens/Giovinco type of a player? I'm not complaining if he's the new Xavi either LOL just thinking out loud a bit  

Imagine having Xavi AND Iniesta combined in one person! 😬

 

That said, I'd rather TT builds him up slowly but steady. His two cup games were both pretty good, not flawless of course but still quite good, wihtin difficult games on their own so I'd be surprised if TT wouldn't recognize that. There are others that seem to struggle a bit more to fight for their way into the squad imho.

Age should never be a factor, Both Cesc and Kova scored CL goals when 17, Gilmouris good enough, if you get praise like he did from Keano last year, savour it, probably like a good header by McGoldrick, lol

I think you’re all right to compare him to Cesc, but I think that he is stronger than given credit for. The way he recovered the ball yesterday in the second half, going down and getting the ball back showed he can be a strong player too. He’s clever, he shows it every game he gets with his clever forward passes, he is strong and he’s also shown it against the dippers last seasons FA Cup game, yesterday and against Barnsley, but he is indeed raw as he needs playing minutes.  I think he could play the Jorginho role but he can also be more up the field as Xavi or Iniesta were for Barcelona and Spain and provide dangerous passes into the box (Messi is not the same since they retired, tbh).

I just hope Tuchel gives him more playing time.

4 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Age should never be a factor, Both Cesc and Kova scored CL goals when 17, Gilmouris good enough, if you get praise like he did from Keano last year, savour it, probably like a good header by McGoldrick, lol

I never really got this desperation to throw teenagers in straight away and even more never got the insistence that they're being 'ruined' if they're not playing regularly at that age, the approach we're taking with Gilmour (and City took with Foden) is pretty standard practice on the continent.

Take the Barca side under Pep for example, they're drolled over for creating such a great team largely of academy players but what doesn't get mentioned is out of all of them only Messi was a regular as a teenager and out of the rest only Iniesta and Xavi made their Barca debut before their 20's. 

Another high profile example would be Phillip Lahm, who didn't get his Bayern debut till 22 and was sent on a two year loan to Stuttgart when he was older at that point than Billy currently is.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

I never really got this desperation to throw teenagers in straight away and even more never got the insistence that they're being 'ruined' if they're not playing regularly at that age, the approach we're taking with Gilmour (and City took with Foden) is pretty standard practice on the continent.

Take the Barca side under Pep for example, they're drolled over for creating such a great team largely of academy players but what doesn't get mentioned is out of all of them only Messi was a regular as a teenager and out of the rest only Iniesta and Xavi made their Barca debut before their 20's. 

Another high profile example would be Phillip Lahm, who didn't get his Bayern debut till 22 and was sent on a two year loan to Stuttgart when he was older at that point than Billy currently is.

But not every player shows that promise from such an early age, i remember when Cesc joined Arsenal, all of a sudden he was a generation talent, well on these shores, for Chelsea recently we have produced a mega crop of talented youngsters, A Micheal owen, a young Shearer or Rooney, very rare young brilliant talent.

I guess we are just worried Tuch might not lavish the time on him, and maybe just purchase a finished article....

4 minutes ago, Ballack & Blu said:

But not every player shows that promise from such an early age, i remember when Cesc joined Arsenal, all of a sudden he was a generation talent, well on these shores, for Chelsea recently we have produced a mega crop of talented youngsters, A Micheal owen, a young Shearer or Rooney, very rare young brilliant talent.

I guess we are just worried Tuch might not lavish the time on him, and maybe just purchase a finished article....

I like Gilmour a lot but he's not on the level of those at the same age. He had two games where he did look at that level but either side of that (who knows maybe if lockdown didn't happen he could have kicked on) he's shown promise but also flaws, Tuchel is being slated for hauling him off to wrestle (back) some control of the game but Lampard did the exact same thing at the exact same stage of the cup (plus again a week later at Palace) last season.

The closest to that level out of the young one's is James but even he's the next level down.

Just imagine us unearthing a Messi-esque player

I've never been one for throwing in youth players, as much as I would like to see a team full of academy graduates I know thats never going to happen so all I want is the best players in our team, and as such I want Gilmour to play as I see him as exactly the player we are missing at the moment, someone to connect up the defence and midfield, a player able to carry the ball but also has an eye for a forward pass. He deserves game time and needs it. I also hate when managers take young players off in the later parts of a game to bring on someone experienced to see the game out. Why, what does that gain? Leave the young un on to learn from it, have trust in him and they will pay you back.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I've never been one for throwing in youth players, as much as I would like to see a team full of academy graduates I know thats never going to happen so all I want is the best players in our team, and as such I want Gilmour to play as I see him as exactly the player we are missing at the moment, someone to connect up the defence and midfield, a player able to carry the ball but also has an eye for a forward pass. He deserves game time and needs it. I also hate when managers take young players off in the later parts of a game to bring on someone experienced to see the game out. Why, what does that gain? Leave the young un on to learn from it, have trust in him and they will pay you back.

Do you feel Gilmour is our second best midfield at the moment? Would have to strongly disagree there.

For me he's the fourth best with a bit of a gap up to number three in terms of quality.

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Do you feel Gilmour is our second best midfield at the moment? Would have to strongly disagree there.

For me he's the fourth best with a bit of a gap up to number three in terms of quality.

I think he definitely has the potential to be first choice, I didnt say he was better than the others, he is different to them though and we have seen the midfield currently is one of the least creative in the league, certainly the top half. Being a better player doesnt mean they fit better.

Edited March 23, 20215 yr by dkw

1 minute ago, dkw said:

I think he definitely has the potential to be first choice, I didnt say he was better than the others, he is different to them though and we have seen the midfield currently is one of the least creative in the league, certainly the top half.

I agree with the potential. He could go on to be world-class.

But he's definitly not there right now for me. And while he's creative and an ambitious passer on paper he's been in midfield in our two worst games under Tuchel. So he needs to do a littlebit more right now if he wants to displace any of the other three who have all performed since Tuchels arrival.

I think Gilmour needs to play in a midfield three rather than a two.

17 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Just imagine us unearthing a Messi-esque player

Probably sell him because he doesn’t track back enough!

Has anyone stopped to consider young Billy hasn’t played much lately and taking him off may have been in relation to his match fitness?

On 22/03/2021 at 11:41, Sindre said:

Thought he did well. Do think he gets a littlebit of extra goodwill by some being a good lad and a youngster everyone wants to succeed. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever and i'm all for it but I doubt others would be praised for a similar performance in midfield.

We struggle with being a bit open in midfield when he's in there and he does get a bit bullied physically so that's concerning but he's still very young and hopefully he turns into a top player for us.

But as we have seen so often, Jorginho is very easily bullied in midfield? Most recently in the Leeds game.

Neither of them offer a physical presence but in terms of natural athleticism and movement with the ball at his feet Gilmour looks streets ahead. Personally, I also think he is the better passer in terms of being more adventurous with his forward passing.

Hasn't travelled with the squad again for the 2nd leg of the Champion's League tie against Porto. He also didn't travel for the first leg. 

Was also excluded from the match day squad against Palace on Saturday with the bench including 3 centre forwards and 2 left backs. 

You've got to wonder what the lad has done so wrong to be completely overlooked by Tuchel, who by his own admission stopped Gilmour from leaving on loan in January. 

Since then he's made just 2 appearances since Tuchel took charge, 

10 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Hasn't travelled with the squad again for the 2nd leg of the Champion's League tie against Porto. He also didn't travel for the first leg. 

Was also excluded from the match day squad against Palace on Saturday with the bench including 3 centre forwards and 2 left backs. 

You've got to wonder what the lad has done so wrong to be completely overlooked by Tuchel, who by his own admission stopped Gilmour from leaving on loan in January. 

Since then he's made just 2 appearances since Tuchel took charge, 

Does seem like a real waste that we did not let him go on loan.