1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Next season we will have Jorginho + Gilmour to play the sittting DM role anyway but we do need defenders, we could get Sule for free and sign Kounde and by the looks of it maybe Tuchel searches for an inside-forward/winger type to score more goals maybe?

Rice simply isn't a creative midfielder and our defense has been good since Tuchel arrived so it would be better to give the trust to Gilmour and let him grow.

Seen Sule described as a German Zouma. 

Not involving the big fees of course but is it not basically like shifting Tammy out to buy an inferior version of him by bringing Sule in after Zouma left.

3 hours ago, wizardous said:

Lukaku should've been our savior from...what exactly? Saving us from being European champions again?

The only thing all 3 of 'em saved was a lot of cash in the bank.  

6 hours ago, Argo said:

If he's playing with any of those other than Gilmour he'll be expected to the the chief deep playmaker. Not saying he has to play Cesc esque balls every ten minutes but helping the first phase build up (playing out of the back) and keeping things ticking over will be primary tasks for him in a way it simply isn't in a David Moyes team.

Nope, I don’t think any Chelsea fan would expect Rice to be a Cesc type of player, just a better defensive cover to the counters than Jorginho at the moment. We can play a midfield of 3 with Gilmour (for example) playing the KDB (in City) type of midfielder and Gallagher more of a Lamps or Bruno Silva (in City). I don’t think anyone expects Rice to be a Cesc or even Jorginho type of player, he’d give us other options.

Having said that, I don’t think he’s a £100m player and we can probably find other options in the market for less ££

6 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Seen Sule described as a German Zouma. 

Not involving the big fees of course but is it not basically like shifting Tammy out to buy an inferior version of him by bringing Sule in after Zouma left.

It would be Tuchel's choice but considering that both Rudiger and Christensen are leaving it wouldn't be that bad to get 1 defender for free and Sule might be the biggest name available in such a way.

2 hours ago, RMH said:

Nope, I don’t think any Chelsea fan would expect Rice to be a Cesc type of player, just a better defensive cover to the counters than Jorginho at the moment. We can play a midfield of 3 with Gilmour (for example) playing the KDB (in City) type of midfielder and Gallagher more of a Lamps or Bruno* Silva (in City). I don’t think anyone expects Rice to be a Cesc or even Jorginho type of player, he’d give us other options.

Having said that, I don’t think he’s a £100m player and we can probably find other options in the market for less ££

* I meant Bernardo Silva, not Bruno Fernandes, just in case.

Double post

Edited January 29, 20224 yr by Amputechture

Just now, Amputechture said:

If Bruno Fernandes signed for Chelsea I'd quit watching footy for as long as he's at the club. Yuck.

 

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

It would be Tuchel's choice but considering that both Rudiger and Christensen are leaving it wouldn't be that bad to get 1 defender for free and Sule might be the biggest name available in such a way.

In the same way the free signing of Franck Kesse might be a good idea for defensive midfield too.

 A specialist defensive midfielder would make sense, as he could then anchor a 3-man midfield, which would enable the other two to be more attacking and both have a goal scoring threat from midfield. I'm thinking a Rice/Tchouameni/Kessie/Ndidi type behind Gallagher and Mount for example. Of the names mentioned, I'd be inclined to try Tchouameni. as he seems to have a bit more physicality about him, which never hurts in midfield ! Plus I think he is a better footballer than Rice, and he'd probably cost half the amount.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

In the same way the free signing of Franck Kesse might be a good idea for defensive midfield too.

 

8 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

 A specialist defensive midfielder would make sense, as he could then anchor a 3-man midfield, which would enable the other two to be more attacking and both have a goal scoring threat from midfield. I'm thinking a Rice/Tchouameni/Kessie/Ndidi type behind Gallagher and Mount for example. Of the names mentioned, I'd be inclined to try Tchouameni. as he seems to have a bit more physicality about him, which never hurts in midfield ! Plus I think he is a better footballer than Rice, and he'd probably cost half the amount.

The only question is how soon would we need a new DM, we do have Jorginho and Gilmour for that role for at least 1 more season so that would allow us to spend more for defenders in the summer. The emphasis is that T.Silva will be 38, Azpilicueta 33 and that we simply won't have a proper backup in case James or Chilwell get injured again, on top of those things we are going to lose Rudiger and Christensen so even if Chalobah is having a breakthrough we have no depth there.

We're getting Gallagher and Gilmour as a boost to the midfield it makes more sense to spend in other areas, the one position that we have been the most stable in the past few years is the central midfield because of Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount. Gallagher is ready to play for us there is no doubt about that and Gilmour already showed that he can contribute for us even if he's a bit weak defensively because in most games we tend to have the ball and there is where he can do his role. Then there is also RLC as a backup, do we really need a DM as much as a few defenders and fullbacks?

Kounde is at the very minimum a 60m signing and if we got more money to spend on some luxury signing why not to rebuild the attack further with a new winger that can contribute on a more regular basis specially since Pulisic hasn't taken over the league despite being projected as the next big thing and Werner looking like he's never going to recover from all of his misses in the past?

We could get 2 defenders in Kounde +1 and buy a new fullback as a cover for Chilwell/James and then sell Werner and Pulisic and get a proper winger/inside forward. Only after that we would be looking for Tchouameni and it would fit since his contract expires in 2024 so if we go all in for him in 2023 we might just get a great deal 1 year before his contract expires.

On 29/01/2022 at 06:34, Gol15 said:

 

The only question is how soon would we need a new DM, we do have Jorginho and Gilmour for that role for at least 1 more season so that would allow us to spend more for defenders in the summer. The emphasis is that T.Silva will be 38, Azpilicueta 33 and that we simply won't have a proper backup in case James or Chilwell get injured again, on top of those things we are going to lose Rudiger and Christensen so even if Chalobah is having a breakthrough we have no depth there.

We're getting Gallagher and Gilmour as a boost to the midfield it makes more sense to spend in other areas, the one position that we have been the most stable in the past few years is the central midfield because of Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount. Gallagher is ready to play for us there is no doubt about that and Gilmour already showed that he can contribute for us even if he's a bit weak defensively because in most games we tend to have the ball and there is where he can do his role. Then there is also RLC as a backup, do we really need a DM as much as a few defenders and fullbacks?

Kounde is at the very minimum a 60m signing and if we got more money to spend on some luxury signing why not to rebuild the attack further with a new winger that can contribute on a more regular basis specially since Pulisic hasn't taken over the league despite being projected as the next big thing and Werner looking like he's never going to recover from all of his misses in the past?

We could get 2 defenders in Kounde +1 and buy a new fullback as a cover for Chilwell/James and then sell Werner and Pulisic and get a proper winger/inside forward. Only after that we would be looking for Tchouameni and it would fit since his contract expires in 2024 so if we go all in for him in 2023 we might just get a great deal 1 year before his contract expires.

Jorginho and Gilmour are not defensive midfielders in the classic "Makelele" sense of being a dedicated DM. We don't have anyone at the club who can do that role, hence why signing somebody could give us options, unless they turn out to be a Bakayoko Mk 2 of course  ... :-) 

Signing a good DM would mean we could play 4 at the back, and we then wouldn't need back up wing backs and extra central defenders. Instead of the 3rd centre back, we'd be able to include an extra creative/goal scoring midfielder (like Gallagher perhaps) in a 4-3-3, with our width coming from the specialist wingers rather than the wing backs.

 

26 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Jorginho and Gilmour are not defensive midfielders in the classic "Makelele" sense of being a dedicated DM. We don't have anyone at the club who can do that role, hence why signing somebody could give us options, unless they turn out to be a Bakayoko Mk 2 of course  ... 🙂

Signing a good DM would mean we could play 4 at the back, and we then wouldn't need back up wing backs and extra central defenders. Instead of the 3rd centre back, we'd be able to include an extra creative/goal scoring midfielder (like Gallagher perhaps) in a 4-3-3, with our width coming from the specialist wingers rather than the wing backs.

 

We can play a 4 back already, we already done it multiple times now...

12 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We can play a 4 back already, we already done it multiple times now...

Not through choice though. We've had too many defenders out and that has forced TT's hand, and he's had to have a round peg in a square hole for the DM role with a back 4. None of our players are naturals for that role shielding the defence (I suppose Chalobah and James can play DM, as they've done it before on loans, but are unproven as DM's at high level) ... the main central midfielders (Jorgi, Kova, Kante) are definitely a compromise.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Not through choice though. We've had too many defenders out and that has forced TT's hand, and he's had to have a round peg in a square hole for the DM role with a back 4. None of our players are naturals for that role shielding the defence (I suppose Chalobah and James can play DM, as they've done it before on loans, but are unproven as DM's at high level) ... the main central midfielders (Jorgi, Kova, Kante) are definitely a compromise.

Well the fact that it was forced and spontaneous only boosts the argument that we can do it and even with different players involved. In the FA Cup we played a back 4 formation with Jorginho + Saul and Jorginho + Kovacic in the 2 games against Spurs and won both with clean sheets, in the league against Spurs a 4-1-4-1 with Jorginho and won again with a clean sheet and against Brigton we played 1:1 after conceding from a corner in the second half.

That's 4 games played recently with combined lineups and 3 wins and 1 draw which is basically the same record as we had when Tuchel started with the back 3 when he took over. The difference is that when Tuchel changed to a back 3 he had most of the players available, we got 3 wins and a draw without some of our key players so I can imagine that if we had Chilwell and James we would be even more convincing.

Also in 2018/19 season we played 4-3-3 with Jorginho playing DM in 99% of the league games and we finished 3rd with Kepa on goal and Rudiger + D.Luiz as CBs. Now we have a better squad overall.

All this shows more than enough evidence that we can play a back 4 at any time, Jorginho doesn't have the pace but it's not like we have suffered from it, what matters is what we can do when we have the ball so I can't agree that we must get another DM when nothing points to us having that need. I think we should give Gilmour a chance and Jorginho has been one of the most stable players so a healthy rotation between them would be good enough next season, after that we can go for Rice or Tchouameni or whoever else...

Edited January 30, 20224 yr by Gol15

 

14 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

 

Lol sure Simon.

On 30/01/2022 at 16:49, Sexyfootball said:

Jorginho and Gilmour are not defensive midfielders in the classic "Makelele" sense of being a dedicated DM. We don't have anyone at the club who can do that role, hence why signing somebody could give us options, unless they turn out to be a Bakayoko Mk 2 of course  ... :-) 

Signing a good DM would mean we could play 4 at the back, and we then wouldn't need back up wing backs and extra central defenders. Instead of the 3rd centre back, we'd be able to include an extra creative/goal scoring midfielder (like Gallagher perhaps) in a 4-3-3, with our width coming from the specialist wingers rather than the wing backs.

 

If we continue this heavy possesion approach and we want to play back 4  we need one more midfielder who can actually defend.

Right now iwe are one Kante injury away from making hary winks looks like a dangerous player.

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

If we continue this heavy possesion approach and we want to play back 4  we need one more midfielder who can actually defend.

Right now iwe are one Kante injury away from making hary winks looks like a dangerous player.

We don't, we can play a back 4 any day of the week.

9 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Lol sure Simon.

Makes sense. All of the above would be an upgrade on what we have and much younger.

On 01/02/2022 at 11:37, RIP Mourinho said:

 

I cant see us buying both Rice and Tchouameni.

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Makes sense. All of the above would be an upgrade on what we have and much younger.

Aye they would, unless Roman feels nostalgic and wants to return to his first years of ownership I really don't see us spending something around 230mill to get 3 players though.

It says the list includes. I imagine it would be a choice between Rice OR Tchouameni, then Kounde on top.

19 hours ago, Gol15 said:

We don't, we can play a back 4 any day of the week.

No way anybody can say thay after watching bergjwin and harry winks broke through our midfield and created chances for spurs. We are not talking about kdb or messi here, it was harry winks.

21 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

No way anybody can say thay after watching bergjwin and harry winks broke through our midfield and created chances for spurs. We are not talking about kdb or messi here, it was harry winks.

All I see is maybe 1 shot from distance and 3 clean sheets in a row against Spurs lol

Come on Thomas/Marina/whoever, get it done.

Can you imagine the demented fury we'll incur in the West Ham fans when we sing 'Declan Rice, he's one of our own', with them knowing that it's technically true.