Our problem today was we played a team full of counter attacking players and hardly managed a counter, we don't have the midfield to play the ball into space for our pacy forward line to run into. City actually played a highline and I remember 1 ball played in behind for Werner who actually just brought the play back. 

If you look at our attacking players and their strengths it's actually in the wide areas such as Pulisic, James, Ziyech, CHO & Chilwell and all the players need a target man in the box which leaves Werners role in the team somewhat redundant. 

Today the plan was to play though the centre and it seemed like we played right into City's hands. 

Just now, Browerkid said:

His end product hasn't been good enough this year.  What we saw at the end of last year was a world class player -  maybe what he could be in a couple of years and not what he already is.

Pulisic and Werner together I'm just not sold, they are small, not gonna win in the air, and seem to be next to each other all the time occupying the same space......technically Werner is just not as good as I thought he was. His first touch isn't the best and He's not a good passer.

We could easily play for the counter-attack with them, giving the ball in their feet or into space, it's mindblowing how we attacked against City, we actually tried to cross the ball for Pulisic to win a header... Seems like we need a full reset and rebuild of our tactic, Werner does have a poor first touch he should be just finishing our chances but we move the ball way too slow.

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Mate - are you trying to insinuate that Lamps is racist and signs/plays players based on their race? That is obscene and clearly ridiculous.

 

Not racist, but he definitely has a bias towards young english players (mostly white)

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

We could easily play for the counter-attack with them, giving the ball in their feet or into space, it's mindblowing how we attacked against City, we actually tried to cross the ball for Pulisic to win a header... Seems like we need a full reset and rebuild of our tactic, Werner does have a poor first touch he should be just finishing our chances but we move the ball way too slow.

Yep - absurd tactics, crossing for Pulisic, when he was the only player in the box. 3 crosses in the first 10 mins - we were not close to winning any of them!

As said in the FL thread, either this is Franks tactics (showing he has no clue), or the players are ignoring him, and playing this way anyway - and he is doing nothing about it, instead simply standing on the touchline with his arms folded. Either of those options isn't a great look!

2 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Our problem today was we played a team full of counter attacking players and hardly managed a counter, we don't have the midfield to play the ball into space for our pacy forward line to run into. City actually played a highline and I remember 1 ball played in behind for Werner who actually just brought the play back. 

If you look at our attacking players and their strengths it's actually in the wide areas such as Pulisic, James, Ziyech, CHO & Chilwell and all the players need a target man in the box which leaves Werners role in the team somewhat redundant. 

Today the plan was to play though the centre and it seemed like we played right into City's hands. 

Looks to me like we are constantly playing into the hands of the opposition. City doesn't even need a real striker in order to casually score 3 goals in 35 minutes.

Lampard keeps playing the 4-3-3 and I'm still waiting for it to actually work in a big game.

23 minutes ago, driller97 said:

We've given Frank a season and a half to implement some sort of style and we still have nothing apart from cross and inshallah with no signs of real improvement.

Would be a massive waste to just give him more money to spunk up the wall in bringing in Rice and whatever other white english player he wants

James is English, so is Tammy and CHO. 

Then there are no English players who are not white that we use.

You accusing Frank in your not so subtle way of being a neo-natzi has not place on this forum and you should be ashamed of yourself.

12 minutes ago, Lang7 said:

Getting spanked for 6 because of dedication to your style is as bad as having no style at all. Bielsa gets mollycoddled by the press because Leeds games are more entertaining than the average and the journos can w**k themselves off thinking how cultured they are for understanding Bielsa’s philosophy: one that’s won him practically f**k all in a 30+ year career btw.

Totally missed the point. As i said i wasn't advocating Bielsa, but Klopp has a style of play, Guardiola has a style of play and a number of others have obtained players that meet the requirements of their systems and not the latest shiny things. Its not new. Clough did it with Nottingham Forest some 40 years ago. Just getting a collection of good players together doesn't make a good team.

I was talking about a philosophy and a defined objective. Not the individuals.

6 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

If you look at our attacking players and their strengths it's actually in the wide areas such as Pulisic, James, Ziyech, CHO & Chilwell and all the players need a target man in the box which leaves Werners role in the team somewhat redundant. 

 

This ^^^

If you want to keep Timo on the pitch and also bring in a CF in Giroud, you have to move to a 3-5-2, and move Pulisic in the center. Chillwell and James are you attacking wingbacks.

 

My main concern about Frank is his Coaching Nouse and ability to influence and change the course of a game, which is what we needed today.

We all know that City Suffocate the opponents central half, squeezing the out ball to Kante and Kovacic meaning the only option for those players is to give it back to where it came from.

They are happy for it to go to Azpi and Chilwell because they know that Sterling and Foden both put in a shift and will work to shut down.

On the Flip side, we are 10 yards off of the likes of Rodri, Gundogan and Silva, leaving them the option to turn out easily and pass through us, added to that the Likes of Ziyech and Pulisic wont work back so City always had the option of using width aswell, far too much for Kante, Mount and Kovacic to cover.

The option of course is to bypass that and go long to the front man to hold it up and bring others in, but with Werner playing that role we didnt seem to want to take that option as we probably would have done with Tammy or Giroud.

Frank done nothing to change it though, He said that we got moved about by City, but to counteract City you need workers and i feel he got it wrong with his selection.

Ziyech cant possibly be match fit and was a poor choice, but looking at our squad in general, where are we when we look for graft? very few options.

Mason looks tired so maybe Billy should have started, Callum looked our biggest threat against Villa but not for the first time this season was dropped after a fair performance.

I dont know what others think but ive always felt this squad lacks legs and Bite, apart from Kante we've got nobody who will win the ball and get stuck in, too many fancy players for my liking, and when you're trying to end a bad run thats the last thing you need.

Worrying times.

Not to be lost in all the negativity but our goal was quality, regardless of City not pressing thar much. The link from Chilwell to the goal was class.

Just now, driller97 said:

Not racist, but he definitely has a bias towards young english players (mostly white)

WTF are you on about? Keep this type of nonsense off of here. This is a football forum, not a place for racist bullsh*t.

The vast majority of our team are either foreign and/or non Caucasian. The only Caucasian english players we play regularly are Mount and Chilwell.

Get a grip and keep this crap away from here.

22 minutes ago, driller97 said:

Thank god for Marina right?

If she didnt have a say in the signings we would have ended up with the likes of Dunk, Rice and Maddison

We have not been linked with Madisson by any reliable source and the Dunk links were clearly generated by Dunks representatives to get him a new deal at Brighton. 

Rice would actually walk Into our team right now and improve us so I don't see the point of the post above. 

1 hour ago, mm24 said:

Lol Kante.As much as we all love him,he's pretty much useless when you don't play a counter attacking style.That's why the guy played his best at Leicester and under Conte and that's why he's not himself for the past 2-3 seasons.

I said last season to people I go with to games we should of sold Kante, and made some serious money, now we’ve missed that boat 

27 minutes ago, Lang7 said:

Getting spanked for 6 because of dedication to your style is as bad as having no style at all. Bielsa gets mollycoddled by the press because Leeds games are more entertaining than the average and the journos can w**k themselves off thinking how cultured they are for understanding Bielsa’s philosophy: one that’s won him practically f**k all in a 30+ year career btw.

But if you're a mid table club wouldn't you rather have a bit of fun in the process instead of just existing for 1-0, 0-0's and 40 points ala a Tony Pulis side? In their shoes i'll much rather lose having some fun as opposed to no shots on target and shake hands at a "respectable" 2-0.

Edited January 3, 20215 yr by Argo

8 minutes ago, haviet1 said:

This ^^^

If you want to keep Timo on the pitch and also bring in a CF in Giroud, you have to move to a 3-5-2, and move Pulisic in the center. Chillwell and James are you attacking wingbacks.

 

I personally would opt for a 4-2-4:

                          MENDY

JAMES - ZOUMA - THIAGO - CHILWELL

                 KANTE - MOUNT

ZIYECH.                                     PULISIC

                WERNER - GIROUD

Just now, Imran_CFC said:

I personally would opt for a 4-2-4:

                          MENDY

JAMES - ZOUMA - THIAGO - CHILWELL

                 KANTE - MOUNT

ZIYECH.                                     PULISIC

                WERNER - GIROUD

I've said it before, Conte would play Giroud and Werner up top without any doubts, Giroud is a great teammate he sets up for Griezmann he could set up for Werner too. Even so, I would go with the 4-2-3-1:     

                       MENDY

JAMES - ZOUMA - THIAGO - CHILWELL

                 KANTE - MOUNT

CHO             HAVERTZ               PULISIC

                     WERNER

 

1 hour ago, haviet1 said:

 

I agreed. He's nowhere near the form that he showed us towards the end of last season.

His body languages tells us all we need to know. He's clearly frustrated with himself. He knew can do much better with the ball, however things are just not clicking for him right now. It seems his legs and body can't execute on what his brains wanted to do. I am confident that he'll come back to form, hopefully soon. Maybe a bit of rest on the bench a few games might be good for him; and Timo as well.

 

This! Plus other teams know he can be a threat, so he is seeing more than one defender as soon as he has the ball. He's getting a lot less space to work with.

1 hour ago, driller97 said:

We've given Frank a season and a half to implement some sort of style and we still have nothing apart from cross and inshallah with no signs of real improvement.

Would be a massive waste to just give him more money to spunk up the wall in bringing in Rice and whatever other white english player he wants

Sorry, what are you trying to imply here. Before making these types of unsubstantiated rumours about people do you have a single shred of evidence to support this narrative that you seem to want to pursue?

1 hour ago, driller97 said:

Not racist, but he definitely has a bias towards young english players (mostly white)

What like CHO, Abrahams, James. Oh and Tomori during his time at Derby? Groundlessly accusing somebody of racism in this climate is bollox. Sh!t posts, sorry

I don’t usually like people jumping to behead a coach but after today’s game I am a little worried about our game plan and Franks future at the helm, if you go 3 down to the basement side you learn from it but we haven’t, people can mention formations and player preferences but they are all pro’s and should offer better than what I saw vs Everton, Arsenal and City-today, we need heart and a few game plans but I see neither, I want high intensity like the teams Lampard was part of.

I watched city at 0-2 up today and they never sat back and allowed us regroup but if we were 2-0 up we would have surely suffered the wobbles

It seems managers can read what we will do even though the team keeps changing which is another worry, it’s a while since we won a game comfortably and I’m going to say what we are all thinking in that we were almost better going forward last year without our new recruits..

All of this sounds negative but I don’t see Lampard getting tactics right to beat the teams around us ( Everton, wolves, Leicester , Arsenal) never mind pool, city and Utd.

Crazy to say this but he has a few games and maybe billy could be the answer.. as I said we need high intensity and quick breaks and he could save his job but not much time left to save our season.  

 

 

Not sure where to go from here, Lampard's chelsea usually bounce back when under pressure, for the first time it looked like the manager and the team had no answer. Given City was good, we handed over to them. There's the blue print of how to play against them, not saying we'd win if we parked the bus, but the way we played had no chance. Once KDB had that first warning shot, we should have stayed compact and wear it out, something we were manage to do last season but did not attempt at all this game. It's the front 3 hard pressing in their own,midfield hang back,  backline stayed deep, and left room for their players to roam and run, and there was no counter measure what so ever the whole game. First goal was always going to be crucial, and a good GK should have got a hand to it, same as the second. Third goal was abysmal, and we seems to get into a habit of over commit, and left Kante in the dying situation. There's no attack, did we have a shot on target before 91th? For a team full of expensive players, we actually don't have a player who could thread a through ball, or even pass the ball without an extra touch. There's zero movement of the ball, everything is stale and slow, just like the good old Sarri days, probably worse. Kante out maybe a blessing in disguise, maybe Gilmour could step up and get us move a bit faster

Edited January 3, 20215 yr by icecoolguy22

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Mate - are you trying to insinuate that Lamps is racist and signs/plays players based on their race? That is obscene and clearly ridiculous.

 

nah only Terry Venables did that ...IMO

2 hours ago, driller97 said:

We've given Frank a season and a half to implement some sort of style and we still have nothing apart from cross and inshallah with no signs of real improvement.

Would be a massive waste to just give him more money to spunk up the wall in bringing in Rice and whatever other white english player he wants

Are you using all of that virtual signalling you got for Christmas already?

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Totally missed the point. As i said i wasn't advocating Bielsa, but Klopp has a style of play, Guardiola has a style of play and a number of others have obtained players that meet the requirements of their systems and not the latest shiny things. Its not new. Clough did it with Nottingham Forest some 40 years ago. Just getting a collection of good players together doesn't make a good team.

I was talking about a philosophy and a defined objective. Not the individuals.

No, it seems you missed my point. Having a philosophy doesn’t guarantee success.

What if the Chelsea philosophy, and the reason we bought so many random players without fixed positions, was to be adaptable? Just because it’s not as on the nose as a Guardiola or Bielsa doesn’t mean there isn’t a philosophy there - only that it’s not working at the moment.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

But if you're a mid table club wouldn't you rather have a bit of fun in the process instead of just existing for 1-0, 0-0's and 40 points ala a Tony Pulis side? In their shoes i'll much rather lose having some fun as opposed to no shots on target and shake hands at a "respectable" 2-0.

There’s a difference between “having fun” and being plain stupid, though. It’s fine playing open, expansive football against teams around you in the bottom half of the table. To do the same when you play the biggest teams, most of whom are more talented and have the ability to rip you apart if you play your usual style, is foolish. There’s no shame in grinding out a dull 0-0 against a Liverpool or City if it keeps you in the league at the end of the season.

None of the top managers have a bad word to say about Bielsa because they know they’re leaving with a win.