8 hours ago, Slojo said:

I don't know, I get that sentiment a lot on this forum to be honest. I think some are or at least were eager for him to fail for the sake of Frank. 

If that were true, which it isn't, the contrary would also hold, that some wanted Frank to lose games so that we could move on to the next shiny coach as soon as possible and not wait until summer.

And those that had no patience with Frank will be the ones turning on Tuchel as the sh*t hits the fan, with those that wanted to give Frank until the end of the season sticking by him to honour the contract and give time to show if he can get out of the slump.

What some don't get is that we are not against Tuchel or want Chelsea to fail, it is that we understand that a contract is something to honour and that, as everything in life, a team/coach will go through ups and downs, and that the same person that is in the sh*t at some point, given time may be able to come back. We don't despair on people or want immediate success but long term stability and a sense of direction as a Club.

1 minute ago, RMH said:

If that were true, which it isn't, the contrary would also hold, that some wanted Frank to lose games so that we could move on to the next shiny coach as soon as possible and not wait until summer.

And those that had no patience with Frank will be the ones turning on Tuchel as the sh*t hits the fan, with those that wanted to give Frank until the end of the season sticking by him to honour the contract and give time to show if he can get out of the slump.

What some don't get is that we are not against Tuchel or want Chelsea to fail, it is that we understand that a contract is something to honour and that, as everything in life, a team/coach will go through ups and downs, and that the same person that is in the sh*t at some point, given time may be able to come back. We don't despair on people or want immediate success but long term stability and a sense of direction as a Club.

Well said mate.

Sadly, the concept of loyalty, integrity and honouring a contract is in very short supply these days, not just in football but in life generally. 

It seems to me to be more a young person's attitude and that is part of the "I want it all, I want it now, I want the latest shiny, shiny thing or I'll go on twatter or tik-tok or whatever the latest electronic look-at-me platform is and whine about having my fundamental human right to be treated as special removed, or to win every football match, or to be able to get pissed with my mates in groups in pubs while hundreds are still dying".

We live in sad times.

Tuchel was called a mercenary, referred to as "Tommy Tactics" and people outright admitted they weren't interested in Chelsea or football when the Wolves game happened. I don't think those people would've shed a tear if we lost that game. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

Tuchel was called a mercenary, referred to as "Tommy Tactics" and people outright admitted they weren't interested in Chelsea or football when the Wolves game happened. I don't think those people would've shed a tear if we lost that game. 

I don't think ANYONE said they weren't interested in Chelsea.  Maybe some of the FM21 armchair fans perhaps, but then they are mostly torn between their love of Klopp and Liverpool (current champions TM) and prospective next champions Manchester City once we stopped winning silverware for a season.

45 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Well said mate.

Sadly, the concept of loyalty, integrity and honouring a contract is in very short supply these days, not just in football but in life generally. 

It seems to me to be more a young person's attitude and that is part of the "I want it all, I want it now, I want the latest shiny, shiny thing or I'll go on twatter or tik-tok or whatever the latest electronic look-at-me platform is and whine about having my fundamental human right to be treated as special removed, or to win every football match, or to be able to get pissed with my mates in groups in pubs while hundreds are still dying".

We live in sad times.

If you start rambling on about loyalty you need to get a reality check. Chelsea as a club is loyal to every player, every staff member, every fan and every associate. Chelsea is also loyal to the agreement made with the manager. The only person (team) that is discarded is the first men's team manager. We have a 20 year experience in that. We all should by now know how wobbly the seat is. And still we manage to attract the best managers in the planet to that wobbly seat. Anyone who takes that seat know that you need to meet the criteria. 

That second part of your rambling is just telling me you are old. Nothing more. There is no insight, nor information. It is just a bit bitter. You are naturally welcome to air those ideas here but expect a reply. 

Hope the times are not sad for you, I really do. 

27 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Tuchel was called a mercenary, referred to as "Tommy Tactics" and people outright admitted they weren't interested in Chelsea or football when the Wolves game happened. I don't think those people would've shed a tear if we lost that game. 

When we were going through the bad run in dec/jan, we had members on here 'LOL' ing every time we conceded or lost, Brutos the main protagonist, did you miss all those posts ?

1 hour ago, RMH said:

If that were true, which it isn't, the contrary would also hold, that some wanted Frank to lose games so that we could move on to the next shiny coach as soon as possible and not wait until summer.

And those that had no patience with Frank will be the ones turning on Tuchel as the sh*t hits the fan, with those that wanted to give Frank until the end of the season sticking by him to honour the contract and give time to show if he can get out of the slump.

Thats all well and good until we adress the elephant in the room, why isn't the same energy shown towards players?

Will there be similar outrage if we decide this summer to cut our loses with Kepa or even Havertz?

Infact let's just stick to the examples with Frank, we released him as a player when he wanted to stay and replaced him with a Gooner who prior to coming never really hid his dislike towards us or Frank, given many cite the romance/honour as a reason we should have stuck with him as manager surely that was 1000x worse?

I don't agree that anyone wants Chelsea to lose and hopefully once assessed with a clearer head the ones that said/implied it will realise it was said in the heat of the moment and retract it, but it also doesn't sit well with me that people are being branded all names under the sun for wanting what's best for Chelsea football club, because ultimately that comes before any individual, even a legend like Frank.

20 minutes ago, Argo said:

Thats all well and good until we adress the elephant in the room, why isn't the same energy shown towards players?

Will there be similar outrage if we decide this summer to cut our loses with Kepa or even Havertz?

Infact let's just stick to the examples with Frank, we released him as a player when he wanted to stay and replaced him with a Gooner who prior to coming never really hid his dislike towards us or Frank, given many cite the romance/honour as a reason we should have stuck with him as manager surely that was 1000x worse?

I don't agree that anyone wants Chelsea to lose and hopefully once assessed with a clearer head the ones that said/implied it will realise it was said in the heat of the moment and retract it, but it also doesn't sit well with me that people are being branded all names under the sun for wanting what's best for Chelsea football club, because ultimately that comes before any individual, even a legend like Frank.

Don’t ask me about players, I have supported all of them, criticising when they don’t perform, but never asked for them to be sacked midway through the season. It’s different to want to give the coach the time to see if he can get us out of the slump and reassess in summer than to sack him midway through the season. The same way that I would not be happy if Kepa had been sacked during lockdown last season or as soon as he was substituted by Caballero, no matter how sh*t he was. Why the Club behaves differently with coaches than with players? Why not sack immediately Kepa or Rudiger after the own goal? With them, we wait until summer, with the coach is shot at the spot. That’s what’s different. 
 

And who are these people that know what’s best for Chelsea? You probably mean what THEY THINK is best for Chelsea FC. It’s a matter of opinion, some prefer immediate success, other prefer the club to behave honourably. Who’s right?

I edit to add that you obviously do not understand what we are saying. It’s not a matter of a romance with Lampard and wanting to stick with him. Read my previous post, I will support Tuchel, I did support  Conte second season, Sarri, you name them. I agree that there are coaches that it is best to part ways with, but never have asked for a coach to be sacked midway. For me it is about having patience and reassess at the right time, which is at the end of the season in most cases. So no, it’s not a romance, it’s about respecting a coach, a person.

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by RMH

35 minutes ago, RMH said:

Don’t ask me about players, I have supported all of them, criticising when they don’t perform, but never asked for them to be sacked midway through the season. It’s different to want to give the coach the time to see if he can get us out of the slump and reassess in summer than to sack him midway through the season. The same way that I would not be happy if Kepa had been sacked during lockdown last season or as soon as he was substituted by Caballero, no matter how sh*t he was. Why the Club behaves differently with coaches than with players? Why not sack immediately Kepa or Rudiger after the own goal? With them, we wait until summer, with the coach is shot at the spot. That’s what’s different. 
 

And who are these people that know what’s best for Chelsea? You probably mean what THEY THINK is best for Chelsea FC. It’s a matter of opinion, some prefer immediate success, other prefer the club to behave honourably. Who’s right?

So when Cesc was smashing it for us your main emotion was upset because we got rid of Frank for him?

Lampard is still getting paid his weekly wage until his contract runs out, so for all intents and purposes it's not that different a situation to the one he himself put Marcos Alonso in after West Brom, ie getting paid for a role he's not now performing.

If we're going down that route some of the poster's who were going down that line wanted Sarri out, and their posts were also liked by some of the posters who are also going down that route. I also don't recall you showing the same energy towards any Sarri out posters (I apologise if I'm wrong) so does the "honour" only apply when the bloke on the sideline is someone we like?

Infact the board that made the eventual decision to sack Frank included a Chelsea legend, so does that make Cech of all people a classless guy who lack honour now?

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Argo

16 minutes ago, RMH said:

Don’t ask me about players, I have supported all of them, criticising when they don’t perform, but never asked for them to be sacked midway through the season. It’s different to want to give the coach the time to see if he can get us out of the slump and reassess in summer than to sack him midway through the season. The same way that I would not be happy if Kepa had been sacked during lockdown last season or as soon as he was substituted by Caballero, no matter how sh*t he was. Why the Club behaves differently with coaches than with players? Why not sack immediately Kepa or Rudiger after the own goal? With them, we wait until summer, with the coach is shot at the spot. That’s what’s different. 
 

And who are these people that know what’s best for Chelsea? You probably mean what THEY THINK is best for Chelsea FC. It’s a matter of opinion, some prefer immediate success, other prefer the club to behave honourably. Who’s right?

I edit to add that you obviously do not understand what we are saying. It’s not a matter of a romance with Lampard and wanting to stick with him. Read my previous post, I will support Tuchel, I did support  Conte second season, Sarri, you name them. I agree that there are coaches that it is best to part ways with, but never have asked for a coach to be sacked midway. For me it is about having patience and reassess at the right time, which is at the end of the season in most cases. So no, it’s not a romance, it’s about respecting a coach, a person.

Players are regularly transferred in the middle of the season in January... And if there weren't regulations against it, clubs would do it all the time. It's got nothing to do with honour.

If you can improve a situation by acting swiftly, the right time to act is not at the end of the season, when you have already failed to reach your objectives. Why intentionally limit yourself like that? And if you sack a manager at the end of the season or sell a player at the end of a season the contract isn't honoured either if it runs longer than said season, so you're not even staying true to your initial point.

59 minutes ago, coco said:

When we were going through the bad run in dec/jan, we had members on here 'LOL' ing every time we conceded or lost, Brutos the main protagonist, did you miss all those posts ?

No, I actually told him off for that in the match day thread. There's a if you don't laugh you'll cry but doing it every week isn't right.

I just think the people who wanted Lampard Out get a bad wrap constantly, while it's okay for people who wanted him to stay to keep making the same comparisons and endless arguments about Lampard vs Tuchel. 

Honestly I feel like it's going to be Sarri all over again. 

2 hours ago, charierre said:

Ironic it will probably be ones who wanted Frank out that will do the most shouting again if Tuchel has a downturn. Many on here have stuck with the club through very dodgy times and will continue to do so, win or lose. Believe me it is far easier to follow a winning team than one that drains you year in year out. So the idea that some would prefer us to lose it totally absurd. As for Frank, he is a legend as a player, I would have preferred him to be given a little longer but accept the club is a business first and hopefully the club have made the correct decision. We are all Chelsea fans and I think I speak for the majority we would never want us to lose regardless of manager.

Except it won't, because a lot of those posters who wanted us to give Frank another year also wanted Sarri out despite winning a trophy. 

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

Lampard is still getting paid his weekly wage until his contract runs out, so for all intents and purposes it's not that different a situation to the one he himself put Marcos Alonso in after West Brom, ie getting paid for a role he's not now performing.

If we're going down that route some of the poster's who were going down that line wanted Sarri out, and their posts were also liked by some of the posters who are also going down that route. I also don't recall you showing the same energy towards any Sarri out posters (I apologise if I'm wrong) so does the "honour" only apply when the bloke on the sideline is someone we like?

Infact the board that made the eventual decision to sack Frank included a Chelsea legend, so does that make Cech of all people a classless guy who lack honour now?

Don't remember Frank leaving the team at HT to run away and sulk on the bus.

3 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Don't remember Frank leaving the team at HT to run away and sulk on the bus.

What about last season? He was banished shortly after scoring a winner against Newcastle (which without it we wouldn't have got top 4 and Frank possibly wouldn't have got a second season).

What was the excuse for banishing him then?

16 hours ago, M.M.B said:

Well stick your head above the parapet & tell me who that is. Because I have seen no post hoping we lose with tuchel as our coach... 

 

17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I agree with you but I also think that it's not all so black-and-white, I think some just want to hold on to how they feel and then point out and say - see, things aren't all perfect we are missing this and that and so on...

My initial reaction to Lampard being sacked and Tuchel taking over was basically all about how Tuchel must do well or get sacked.
At the time of hearing the news I was upset that Lampard didn't get more time and all I could think of is that if the board is going to be consistent with how they run things then by all means Tuchel should also be sacked if he fails to finish top 4. But then I realized, that would only be a continuation of the same thing which ultimately doesn't make me happy as a fan, so I shouldn't react in that way from a personal level first and foremost.

I think some real fans truly disliked Sarri and have been disliking Jorginho for 3 seasons now. That doesn't make them any less real fans, I just think it's more complicated.

 

33 minutes ago, Argo said:

What about last season? He was banished shortly after scoring a winner against Newcastle (which without it we wouldn't have got top 4 and Frank possibly wouldn't have got a second season).

What was the excuse for banishing him then?

After the Newcastle game he started against Ajax midweek and against Burnley on the weekend, I think he also started the 4-4 game against Ajax where he was hooked at HT due to an absolute horror show.

He was dropped due to his performance against Ajax so he wasnt banished after scoring a winner against Newcastle, also stating his winner against Newcastle in October got as CL football could be applied to any winning goal for last season.

 

56 minutes ago, Slojo said:

No, I actually told him off for that in the match day thread. There's a if you don't laugh you'll cry but doing it every week isn't right.

I just think the people who wanted Lampard Out get a bad wrap constantly, while it's okay for people who wanted him to stay to keep making the same comparisons and endless arguments about Lampard vs Tuchel. 

Honestly I feel like it's going to be Sarri all over again. 

Anyone that laughs at the demise of the team, is the same as someone who wishes for us to lose, trolls from WHU Spud Arse fans pretending to be Chelsea.

2 hours ago, evissy said:

If you start rambling on about loyalty you need to get a reality check. Chelsea as a club is loyal to every player, every staff member, every fan and every associate. Chelsea is also loyal to the agreement made with the manager. The only person (team) that is discarded is the first men's team manager. We have a 20 year experience in that. We all should by now know how wobbly the seat is. And still we manage to attract the best managers in the planet to that wobbly seat. Anyone who takes that seat know that you need to meet the criteria. 

That second part of your rambling is just telling me you are old. Nothing more. There is no insight, nor information. It is just a bit bitter. You are naturally welcome to air those ideas here but expect a reply. 

Hope the times are not sad for you, I really do. 

The loyalty I referred to is not the club's, though I dispute your interpretation of how the board has behaved over the years, but fans like you whose attitude is exactly what I was referring to.  And some of us have a bit more than 20 years of that.

 

Like I said, no loyalty, no honour, no integrity.

15 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

After the Newcastle game he started against Ajax midweek and against Burnley on the weekend, I think he also started the 4-4 game against Ajax where he was hooked at HT due to an absolute horror show.

He was dropped due to his performance against Ajax so he wasnt banished after scoring a winner against Newcastle, also stating his winner against Newcastle in October got as CL football could be applied to any winning goal for last season.

But given the "it's only ten games" thing is used for Lampard wouldn't it on the same token be hypocritical to then back a decision to banish someone based on an admittedly awful 45 minutes against CL semi finalists? Two weeks after he scored a clutch winner.

Lampard took him off the squad because he believed he wasn't good enough/wasn't performing (which for the record I agreed with) and instead put a player he believed could play the role better, ultimately no different to why Roman/Marina/Cech decided to replace Frank.

So either both parties in those respective situations acted with no honour and integrity or neither did.

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Except it won't, because a lot of those posters who wanted us to give Frank another year also wanted Sarri out despite winning a trophy. 

Because Sarri's football was tedious and Sarri as a person was tedious. 

I'm sorry but I just couldn't warm to a manager that looked like a hobbo munching on dogs ends on the touchline, 

3 hours ago, Slojo said:

Tuchel was called a mercenary, referred to as "Tommy Tactics" and people outright admitted they weren't interested in Chelsea or football when the Wolves game happened. I don't think those people would've shed a tear if we lost that game. 

Garbage, none of that was to do Tuchel and you know it. I had no interest because of the sacking of Lampard and many other reasons. For you to try and intimate that was because I wanted us to lose is bang out of order and completely wrong. 

9 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Because Sarri's football was tedious and Sarri as a person was tedious. 

I'm sorry but I just couldn't warm to a manager that looked like a hobbo munching on dogs ends on the touchline, 

Which is your opinion and that's fair enough. I think what Slojo is referring to is why weren't the Sarri outers (some of whom amoung the loudest at aggressively going at anyone who wanted a change this time) given the same lectures about honour, integrity etc?

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by Argo

21 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Maybe there is a real reason why teams in general don't want to play an open game against us, has that thought ever occurred to you?
It's almost like you're complaining and trying to make a hint to our opponents - hey guys don't let us keep the ball that much next time! 

Anyway, our goals are a results of a good tactic first and foremost.
Watch the first goal - both Kovacic and Jorginho have a man marking them, Christensen because of it was free to take the ball forward first and he can pass it so he made great forward pass to Werner. Werner in turn can have a 1v1 with a Newcastle defender because Alonso is cutting inside and taking a player with him, that was all intentional.

I can't see how you can complain about us having a good number of chances and attacking movement, Man City has that too and just like they could score more goals nobody is telling to them that it's a bad thing.
First people complain about how we don't create much at all - now the complaint is that we have too much of attacking movement? Damned no matter how we play?

You can like the team but still be critical of it. The reason why teams let us keep the ball is simply because of Tuchel's unknown factor at the moment. It was the same with Lamps' too. The moment his tactics were found out, things turned sour.

We have yet to encounter a team that could shut us down. Hope it never happens but it will and I'd like to think Tuchel can get us out of it when the time comes. 

If we have good attacking movements but our goalscorers still struggle means that we can and have a lot of work to improve. City score boatloads which means their attacking play is getting them results, ours aren't yet but despite that we're winning. You are buying into the hype way too soon. 

11 minutes ago, Argo said:

Which is your opinion and that's fair enough. I think what Slojo is referring to is why weren't the Sarri outers (some of whom amoung the loudest at aggressively going at anyone who wanted a change this time) given the same lectures about honour, integrity etc?

Because Frank Lampard is a Chelsea legend. 

Sarri is a smelly banker. 

46 minutes ago, Argo said:

But given the "it's only ten games" thing is used for Lampard wouldn't it on the same token be hypocritical to then back a decision to banish someone based on an admittedly awful 45 minutes against CL semi finalists? Two weeks after he scored a clutch winner.

Lampard took him off the squad because he believed he wasn't good enough/wasn't performing (which for the record I agreed with) and instead put a player he believed could play the role better, ultimately no different to why Roman/Marina/Cech decided to replace Frank.

So either both parties in those respective situations acted with no honour and integrity or neither did.

I understand the point you are making but I don't think Alonso is the best example.

In addition I have said all along that Lampard was assigned as Chelsea Manager by the board knowing full well his limitations and proceeded to give him the role, Alonso was already with the squad when Lampard joined and wasn't a Lampard appointment and he is a specialist in a position which Lampard does not prefer to use.

With Managers they have a squad to use and had he not played Emerson after Alonso's horror show you may well have been arguing he has no honour and integrity towards Emerson. I don't think you can label a Manager as having no integrity because he looks to use his squad.