When i first heard the name tommy toookel i thought he was from an old vaudaville act ......glad hes here ( at the moment)....hes got to get us more confident as to where the goal actually is....i know its about the cash but this top 4 stuff spoils what a lot of us yearn . The premiereship....european cup was a dream thats now been done....selfish it may be but id rather win prem than e.c

20 minutes ago, Brutos said:

Spot on here, It's so jarring reading all this woulda clouda shoulda trying to undermine the manager who's been in the job what one month new league, where the players weren't performing, the confidence was gone and he had to come in and address all of that. Lampard tried and couldn't stop the rot performance wasn't getting better it was getting worst confidence was shot and it looked like the players didn't have a scooby doo what they were supposed to do on the pitch. His lack of tactical awareness and footballing brain got ruthlessly exposed.

There is no easy game in the PL so to say every game was easy is just nonsensical.

United found that out, Liverpool found that out same with City, Leicester and US.

 

 

Lampard kept playing 4-3-3 despite the fact that it wasn't working and there were no signs of him changing anything.

Tuchel came in changed that and we look way better and even without T.Silva and with Kepa - now that's something that Lampard just couldn't handle at all last season when we conceded so many goals.

The thing that Lampard struggled the most with is basically consistency - Tuchel has now made a great run of games, we are more consistent and the fact is that in the 6 games he has been in charge nobody scored against us part from Rudiger lol so if that isn't taking control then I don't know what is 

No manager can maintain this but I have no doubts that as soon as we lose a game many will come out guns blazing, in fact I have good reasons to believe that some are waiting for it...

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Lampard kept playing 4-3-3 despite the fact that it wasn't working and there were no signs of him changing anything.

Tuchel came in changed that and we look way better and even without T.Silva and with Kepa - now that's something that Lampard just couldn't handle at all last season when we conceded so many goals.

The thing that Lampard struggled the most with is basically consistency - Tuchel has now made a great run of games, we are more consistent and the fact is that in the 6 games he has been in charge nobody scored against us part from Rudiger lol so if that isn't taking control then I don't know what is 

No manager can maintain this but I have no doubts that as soon as we lose a game many will come out guns blazing, in fact I have good reasons to believe that some are waiting for it...

You make some great points, at no point did I see him changing tactics to try something different he choose to die on the 4-3-3 hill.  

Yep I expect all guns blazing when he loses his first match as justification of why we should of kept sliding down the table and continue with sh*te performances. 

14 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Lampard kept playing 4-3-3 despite the fact that it wasn't working and there were no signs of him changing anything.

Tuchel came in changed that and we look way better and even without T.Silva and with Kepa - now that's something that Lampard just couldn't handle at all last season when we conceded so many goals.

The thing that Lampard struggled the most with is basically consistency - Tuchel has now made a great run of games, we are more consistent and the fact is that in the 6 games he has been in charge nobody scored against us part from Rudiger lol so if that isn't taking control then I don't know what is 

No manager can maintain this but I have no doubts that as soon as we lose a game many will come out guns blazing, in fact I have good reasons to believe that some are waiting for it...

Anyone hoping for Chelsea to lose to prove a point against the appointment of Tuchel is not a real fan.

52 minutes ago, dkw said:

you keep using terms like substantially and much better, that simply isnt true. Like for like results are almost the same, not that you can really compare them due to so many variables this season. Tuchel has us winning games against lesser teams, thats how things were last season and early this season in the main. All some people are saying, me included, is its been a nice run of games to bed in, and one we would always have expected to have won the majority of. The next 5 or 6 games will show us where we are in reality, and my worry is we are still seeing many of the same failings as we were under Frank. Were not generally creating much, we still seem to be on the verge of sh*tting ourselves in defence any time a team actually does have a go at us (especially without Silva).

I agree with you, that it's been a nice run of games to bed in, and I agree with you that after the next 5 to 6 games we'll know a lot more about were we stand. I also agree with you that we still look like a team who has a lot of things to work on, especially when it comes to attacking. But I think we look more structured and secure in defence and better in possession. 

But I think you misunderstand what I mean. 13 points over 5 games, when looked at in isolation is substantially better than 10 points. If you had a mini tournament that was 5 games long, 13 points would put you in contention to win it, whereas 10 points most likely wouldn't. And if you calculate the average per game, as I did earlier and then multiply it with the number of games in a season the first team would end up on 98,8 points, whereas the second team would end up on 76 points. That shows that the difference is significant. However because the sample size is too small it doesn't mean too much, because if the first team loses the 6th game, the other team could have the same number of points after 6 games. That's why I wrote that the sample size is too small and the most important thing is to keep going. It's also true that due to circumstances a direct comparison is not possible, I just used it to illustrate that even from this run of fixtures, getting 13 points is not easy. However that still doesn't change the fact that when looked in isolation, a 3 points difference in 5 games is substantial.

That's the last post I'll post on that matter though, because it's a pretty petty discussion (also from my side) that has less and less to do with the actual topic of discussion that is Thomas Tuchel, and I don't want to annoy people any more than I already did.

 

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by True Blue23

In a defence of Lampard, we also don’t know if the political landscape at the club has shifted with TT.

For example, the summer signings, Frank could well have been told “We’ve spent the money, you play them” whereas TT might not have that stipulation hanging over him, not being a young inexperienced coach, and also making it a pre-requisite that he has sole control over the team.

The only reason I say this, it seems odd that the personnel has changed so drastically in a short time from 1 manager to another.

The other argument is that Frank was to thick headed to remove players from the team, that may have been bought on his recommendation, although I think the club actually finds the players for the coach.

Playing devil’s advocate here, if we finish in 6th spot, which is likely for TT & was likely for Lampard, will the change of coach have been worth it?

you can tell in his interviews, that he knows what he wants, so refreshing to know that he knows where our shortfalls are, he is so aware that Werner needs playing in more, definitely more aware the final ball needs a bit more care, CHO got in some brilliant positions, then just lashed it into a crowded box, Alonsos play will be tweaked, then hopefully Mount or Havertz will be that ball player we need, probably Mount to drop into the Jorginho role, freeing up  the 10 for Kai, but so far 9.5/10..."Sehr Weit gehen"

I enjoy listening to him speak 

 

 

1 hour ago, Brutos said:

I enjoy listening to him speak 

 

 

Me too

1 hour ago, Imran_CFC said:

Anyone hoping for Chelsea to lose to prove a point against the appointment of Tuchel is not a real fan.

I agree with you but I also think that it's not all so black-and-white, I think some just want to hold on to how they feel and then point out and say - see, things aren't all perfect we are missing this and that and so on...

My initial reaction to Lampard being sacked and Tuchel taking over was basically all about how Tuchel must do well or get sacked.
At the time of hearing the news I was upset that Lampard didn't get more time and all I could think of is that if the board is going to be consistent with how they run things then by all means Tuchel should also be sacked if he fails to finish top 4. But then I realized, that would only be a continuation of the same thing which ultimately doesn't make me happy as a fan, so I shouldn't react in that way from a personal level first and foremost.

I think some real fans truly disliked Sarri and have been disliking Jorginho for 3 seasons now. That doesn't make them any less real fans, I just think it's more complicated.

Lamps just purely lacked Experience at this level, maybe his go it alone ,sometime pig headedness was his downfall, as he didn't seem to adjust to continuing shortcomings, You can see Jorginho is a quality player, just sometimes the speed and physicalities of the PL overwhelm him, but fair play he has tried to adapt, and is the beat of this current team, i don't see him and Kova as joint 6's, Kova is playing like a younger Gerrard, and we look so much better...

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Lampard kept playing 4-3-3 despite the fact that it wasn't working and there were no signs of him changing anything.

Tuchel came in changed that and we look way better and even without T.Silva and with Kepa - now that's something that Lampard just couldn't handle at all last season when we conceded so many goals.

The thing that Lampard struggled the most with is basically consistency - Tuchel has now made a great run of games, we are more consistent and the fact is that in the 6 games he has been in charge nobody scored against us part from Rudiger lol so if that isn't taking control then I don't know what is 

No manager can maintain this but I have no doubts that as soon as we lose a game many will come out guns blazing, in fact I have good reasons to believe that some are waiting for it...

Well stick your head above the parapet & tell me who that is. Because I have seen no post hoping we lose with tuchel as our coach... 

Even though the nanes change the team and style look more consistent. The feel is better, not getting caught on the break, not having Chilwell and Pulisic falling over each other at the far corner flag. 
 

For me more than anything it’s the combo of Jorginho and Kova providing the hub around which things rotate. Yes we have to do it against top teams, yes Jorginho is not beckanbauer, any more than Kovacic is lampard, But there is to my eyes a clear style that the players understand. 
‘despite the lack of goals it’s been very successful in the early games against moderate but still premier league opposition. 
 

there hasn’t been much luck about even if we are lucky the opposition haven’t scored from the few chances they have had. 

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by ozboy

You just know with this no found belief, and being allowed the freedom to express himself, he is going to score that Hazard/Messi type Worldie, honestly he is.......

With all the love in the world for Lampard, think the argument we would have won the last 4-5 game with him in charge is pretty pointless. Let's face it, we lost to some pretty sh1t teams too. Arsenal was a dead beat and just above relegation zone until we played against them, they were worse than the Spurs we beat. Everton was on a pretty horried run, so was Wolves and we were deservedly beaten. Sure we haven't been winning well, but it's impossible to expect a new manager comes in and win 3:0 every game after a week in. I'm sure #Tuchelout will be flying as soon as we lose a game.

7 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Anyone hoping for Chelsea to lose to prove a point against the appointment of Tuchel is not a real fan.

 

You call them Lampard supporters, not CFC supporters.

Having Lamps manage us even for 18 months was a dream, it wasn't perfect And he had his flaws but in the circumstances he did a good job.

Its just a shame we lost the Fa cup final, that I do chalk down to bad luck hopefully mr Tuchel can avenge him and win it in his first 6 months in charge in England!

Edited February 17, 20215 yr by LongtimerLurker

I don’t really see anyone hoping Tuchel would fail because of Lampard. I honestly think we would be near where we are now if Frank stayed, the next two games were very favourable and then there’s Tottenham who are in a mess.

We probably would have drew with Tottenham if Frank was still here but like a few have said, all the games under Tuchel were very winnable, it’s the next few weeks we’ll learn a lot about Tuchel.

42 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I don’t really see anyone hoping Tuchel would fail because of Lampard

I don't know, I get that sentiment a lot on this forum to be honest. I think some are or at least were eager for him to fail for the sake of Frank. 

Thats insane, show who they are?

Will wait while you do.

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

I don't know, I get that sentiment a lot on this forum to be honest. I think some are or at least were eager for him to fail for the sake of Frank. 

While several of us found it rather upsetting what happened to Frank, I dont think you will find any of us long term members wishing the club to fail. Frank would not want that either.

A lot of discussion of what change with Tuchel. The biggest difference is the offense, it is more structured, less movement, less free role. 

It does help defensively because it is easier to defend and press back once you lose the ball because everything is already structured. 

I will be surprised if this is the end goal, usually manager like to have more movement but Tuchel came in the middle of the season, so it is better to be safe and it is easier to implement. 

Plus I won't say this is better or worse than Lamp. It is simply different, it can work both ways

Lot of open questions with Tuchel: Back 3 the long term solution, CHO wingback, Zouma and Chilwell out of the side, Mount and Havertz number 10's, Kante has a major role in the future, formation against a top high block side, Kepa has a sniff, Hakim Ziyech too much of a specialist for Tuchel?

Tuchel said he wants the side to be exciting to watch. This is highly subjective but this is a big question. For me 3 at back + possession has never bought excitement. It is a system that is covering your own goal first and foremost. We are basically holding the ball so opponent doesn't have it and we are circulating the ball in flanks. So far this is exactly how it has gone with Tuchel. 1 (own goal) goal conceded and 8 scored in 6 games played. I understand Tuchel needs the results in first with assessing the squad at the same time so this is intelligent but is this something we will do next season as well?

There are no major sides in the world that always play 3 at back. Not to my knowledge anyway. There is a reason for it. Not sure what it is? Trend?

I am not criticizing Tuchel, not at all. He has done so well and he is very interesting person to listen to. Just some ideas that popped into mind thinking about his weeks with us so far.

42 minutes ago, evissy said:

Tuchel said he wants the side to be exciting to watch. This is highly subjective but this is a big question. For me 3 at back + possession has never bought excitement. It is a system that is covering your own goal first and foremost. We are basically holding the ball so opponent doesn't have it and we are circulating the ball in flanks. So far this is exactly how it has gone with Tuchel. 1 (own goal) goal conceded and 8 scored in 6 games played. I understand Tuchel needs the results in first with assessing the squad at the same time so this is intelligent but is this something we will do next season as well?

There are quite a few similarities with how City currently play. Guardiola usually switch between a 2-3 or a 3-2 as the defensive block and while Tuchel have exclusively opted for a 3-2 so far but they both leave five players behind the ball usually. I think the pragmatic approach so far has everything to do with Tuchel wanting to start the rebuild with fixing the defense and then work of the offense as we go.

As City we also revert to a back four usually when we defend. So while everyone describes CHO as a wingback these days he's basically playing as a winger. Just with more space to work as the two tens in the middle of the pitch helps stretch the defense and give them more to worry about then just plays down the flank.

 

9 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

With all the love in the world for Lampard, think the argument we would have won the last 4-5 game with him in charge is pretty pointless. Let's face it, we lost to some pretty sh1t teams too. Arsenal was a dead beat and just above relegation zone until we played against them, they were worse than the Spurs we beat. Everton was on a pretty horried run, so was Wolves and we were deservedly beaten. Sure we haven't been winning well, but it's impossible to expect a new manager comes in and win 3:0 every game after a week in. I'm sure #Tuchelout will be flying as soon as we lose a game.

Ironic it will probably be ones who wanted Frank out that will do the most shouting again if Tuchel has a downturn. Many on here have stuck with the club through very dodgy times and will continue to do so, win or lose. Believe me it is far easier to follow a winning team than one that drains you year in year out. So the idea that some would prefer us to lose it totally absurd. As for Frank, he is a legend as a player, I would have preferred him to be given a little longer but accept the club is a business first and hopefully the club have made the correct decision. We are all Chelsea fans and I think I speak for the majority we would never want us to lose regardless of manager.