2 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Like a lot of people on here and maybe chelsea fans in general I do want to see a back 4 and an extra attacker at some point.

As it stands though why change what is working? We won't know until a month down the line where this   formation, system and style stack up vs the best. I thought I'd seen it all in football yet Tuchel has at least for me reinvented the wingback role.

As much as I would like to see Pulisic in the starting line up and Ziyech amongst others, we are getting to see CHO and Mount get game time and thrive. Realistically in this system when CHO plays ahead of James and Alonso over Chilly we have 5 attacking players. 

If we can become more clinical why can't this be our system going forward? It won us our last league title in fact 3 at the back has won us 2/3 of our last trophies. Not to mention its a recognisable style that's our own not just another 433 wannabe 08-12 Barcelona.

Finally the competition this should breed in the squad should actually be a positive thing, Pulisic should be trying to push Mount and Werner for a number 10 slot or CHO and Alonso for a wing position. Kai should also look to challenge for a number 10 or false 9 position.

There is a lot of potential in this system and once we start scoring more regularly the added defensive structure behind our attackers will only make the team look better as a unit. This could allow us to prolong not only Silva's role in the team at the centre but also keep Cesar in the starting 11 and competing at a high level.

It does however, help to have a plan b and it should be interesting if he looks to use a 4231 or 442/4222 like at PSG somewhere down the line.

Yep this system just seems to suit us don't understand why but it does. 

You are correct it does seem to have a lot of potential especially with how fluid it can be I suspect when it clicks a few teams are going to get absolute spanking 

So far we've done well, but the next five games are going to show where we are really at. 

I can honestly say Tuchel has done well what's left is to keep up the consistency and improve our finishing.

The way we control games now is better especially against opponents that let us keep the ball. That much is certain. 

That being said, our attacking play needs to improve a lot. Our goals at the moment are fluky and comes from the sheer number of attacking movements, not because of skill and technique.

We've definitely improved, easy fixtures or not, you can even see in the balance that we have improved. 

However, like people are saying, tough games are on the horizon, it will show what we are really made of. So far so good, whether nice or ugly, Tuchel has been winning games, that's great. Some disturbing performances at times, Barnsley for example. But I do feel much more comfortable in our setup lately. 

I just seriously hope he doesn't consider giving Kepa more games, I really protest this decision because it will inevitably come back to haunt us. Just bring Mendy back in and leave it at that. 

I mean he is playing what we would consider second string players and getting results.

When you think Pulasic, Ziyech, Havertz, Chilwell, kante, Silva and james aren’t playing can you imagine if he can incorporate them into this system and get them playing. 
 

That’s an insane amount of talent that’s not playing I know a couple through injury but still, we have I’d say the best squad bar city we need to get the best team fielded. 
 

I understand football is balance not just names but still no way is that our strongest team. 

3 hours ago, Deino said:

I can honestly say Tuchel has done well what's left is to keep up the consistency and improve our finishing.

The way we control games now is better especially against opponents that let us keep the ball. That much is certain. 

That being said, our attacking play needs to improve a lot. Our goals at the moment are fluky and comes from the sheer number of attacking movements, not because of skill and technique.

I agree, although yesterday was already better in this regard. The two Werner chances and Kovacic's through ball for Tammy were created through skill. We just didn't score frome them 😅

7 hours ago, enigma said:

So far we've done well, but the next five games are going to show where we are really at. 

Southampton up next who, on current form, are the worst performing team in the league and so you'd like to think we'll take 3 points given we're second most in form team in the league behind leaders Manchester City. 

Run of fixtures after Southampton are Atletico Madrid, Manchester United, Everton, Leeds, Atletico Madrid. Which is a far tougher run of fixtures than Tuchel has faced so far. 

Going to be interesting to see how we fair in those games because typically they were the sort of ones we struggled in under Lampard. 

After the 2nd leg of the Champions League we've got Sheffield United (FA Cup), West Brom, Palace and Brighton which is a pretty favourable run of fixtures as well. 

So if we can get through the next five, like you say, it's going to give us a pretty good idea of how our season will pan out. 

His first 7 games (inc Southampton) were from the bottom 11 and the Championship.

His next 5 games are from the top 11 and La Liga.

No idea what he was doing with his subs last night, bringing Kante on and going to a basically 8 defensive players just gave the impetus to Newcastle who had a few chances from then on, if they had took one of them then it would have been a very nervy end to the game.

32 minutes ago, dkw said:

No idea what he was doing with his subs last night, bringing Kante on and going to a basically 8 defensive players just gave the impetus to Newcastle who had a few chances from then on, if they had took one of them then it would have been a very nervy end to the game.

Could you imagine the stick Lampard would get for that ?

34 minutes ago, dkw said:

No idea what he was doing with his subs last night, bringing Kante on and going to a basically 8 defensive players just gave the impetus to Newcastle who had a few chances from then on, if they had took one of them then it would have been a very nervy end to the game.

He does seem reluctant to call upon Pulisic and Ziyech. 

Tuchel said in his post match comments that he doesn't see Werner as a prefered option to lead the the line, which explains why Giroud replaced Abraham in the first half.

It was the Mount sub I found strangest, he took off an attack minded player for a defensive one which meant we were lining up (more or less) as a 5-3-2 following that change. When CHO went off for James it was a pretty big admission of wanting to the game out. That such a defensive set up, I think even Jose would raise an eyebrow at that one. 

We've not had to chase a result under Tuchel yet, with the exception of his first game against Wolves we've been leading going into the last half hour of a game. So will be interesting to see how he uses his subs in that sort of situation. 

Why has beating Spurs all of a sudden turned into a so so achievement?

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by Argo

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

Why has beating Spurs all of a sudden turned into a so so achievement?

The annoying narrative that teams aren't pressing us and just giving Jorginho all the time and space in the world is also rubbish and just used to undermine. Besides Wolves and Tottenham, every other team we've played against has come to play and exploit. Not sat back and played for a point or looked to just get us on the counter like a lot of teams did against Lampards Chelsea. 

As bad as Tottenham have been, and without Kane, people were still quite nervy before the game due to the magnitude of the derby. Look at Arsenal, look at the team they fielded at the time, how confident we were going into it and only to get whooped... There was a clear mental block or anxiety for us this season when it came to big games.  

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Southampton up next who, on current form, are the worst performing team in the league and so you'd like to think we'll take 3 points given we're second most in form team in the league behind leaders Manchester City. 

Run of fixtures after Southampton are Atletico Madrid, Manchester United, Everton, Leeds, Atletico Madrid. Which is a far tougher run of fixtures than Tuchel has faced so far. 

Going to be interesting to see how we fair in those games because typically they were the sort of ones we struggled in under Lampard. 

After the 2nd leg of the Champions League we've got Sheffield United (FA Cup), West Brom, Palace and Brighton which is a pretty favourable run of fixtures as well. 

So if we can get through the next five, like you say, it's going to give us a pretty good idea of how our season will pan out. 

This is it, the next sequence of fixtures will show if we have improved since Lampard or just have a new face at the helm.

I think we have improved though don't see us beating Utd. 

I am very impressed so far. From everything I have seen since he took over I am confident we'll give Atletico a real fight over two legs.

 

23 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

It was the Mount sub I found strangest, he took off an attack minded player for a defensive one which meant we were lining up (more or less) as a 5-3-2 following that change. When CHO went off for James it was a pretty big admission of wanting to the game out. That such a defensive set up, I think even Jose would raise an eyebrow at that one. 

I have to disagree with you there. Seeing the game out at 2-0 is not a bad plan. They managed to get 1 shot on target after Kante came on, so no real danger of losing. We don't get more points with a 4/5-0 thrashing and by putting Kante and James on, he's reinforcing the defence to ensure the win, rather than open the game up and invite Newcastle to have clear opportunities. 

If we could beat all teams supposedly weaker sides 1-0 or 2-0 I'd take it any day.

42 minutes ago, Argo said:

Why has beating Spurs all of a sudden turned into a so so achievement?

Because... It's Spurs. 

18 minutes ago, Shweaves said:

I have to disagree with you there. Seeing the game out at 2-0 is not a bad plan. They managed to get 1 shot on target after Kante came on, so no real danger of losing. We don't get more points with a 4/5-0 thrashing and by putting Kante and James on, he's reinforcing the defence to ensure the win, rather than open the game up and invite Newcastle to have clear opportunities. 

If we could beat all teams supposedly weaker sides 1-0 or 2-0 I'd take it any day.

I understand the reasoning of the sub but it's still quite an unusal move to make when there are already quite a lot of defensive players on the pitch. It's often you'll see a team that prodomintely attacks finish a game with 8 outfield players who aren't attack minded. 

5 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I understand the reasoning of the sub but it's still quite an unusal move to make when there are already quite a lot of defensive players on the pitch. It's often you'll see a team that prodomintely attacks finish a game with 8 outfield players who aren't attack minded. 

Fair enough. I just feel that you can end up compromising a winning position by chasing that perfect performance or the perfect goal. I prefer consolidating the win first, especially considering he's a new manager and needs to rebuild a winning mentality.

14 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Because... It's Spurs. 

Sad that people have forgotten about Three Point Lane so quickly. 

I remember when Eidur signed for them in the very twilight of his career and made himself very unpopular by saying he really liked playing at White Hart Lane and that he had never lost there. 

25 minutes ago, Shweaves said:

Fair enough. I just feel that you can end up compromising a winning position by chasing that perfect performance or the perfect goal. I prefer consolidating the win first, especially considering he's a new manager and needs to rebuild a winning mentality.

Is not necessarily about getting a perfect performance but throwing on defesive players invites pressure onto yourself. Replacing an attacking player with a defensive one sends out a message to the team, even subconciously, to hold on and unintentionally the whole side might drop 5 yards deeper or so. 

Tuchel heard shouting to the team last night "stay in the opponents' half". Having attacking players on the field who like playing at that end of the pitch helps you to do that. 

I'm not knocking Tuchel, the results have been great since he came in. Doesn't mean we're not going to raise an eyebrow to certain selections (Kepa) or tactical choices, like last night. 

Not saying he's a negative manager, but seems to go down that really defensive mode when trying to close out game with quite a bit of time on the clock. If memory correct, he had no striker on the field against Shifield United for about 15 minutes protecting 2:1. yesterday he could have easily put on a Pullisic for Werner against a pretty ordinary opposition. I think in the end we had a striker and Mount as the only true attacking players on the field for about 10 minutes. Against a team like Atletico or United, certainly wouldn't want them to have a good 15 minutes have a go at us without fearing the counter attack.

1 minute ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Not saying he's a negative manager, but seems to go down that really defensive mode when trying to close out game with quite a bit of time on the clock. If memory correct, he had no striker on the field against Shifield United for about 15 minutes protecting 2:1. yesterday he could have easily put on a Pullisic for Werner against a pretty ordinary opposition. I think in the end we had a striker and Mount as the only true attacking players on the field for about 10 minutes. Against a team like Atletico or United, certainly wouldn't want them to have a good 15 minutes have a go at us without fearing the counter attack.

I've said in a few places that it is very similar to Sarri's underlying principles.

Possesion is used as a form of attack and defence. Aim is to keep the ball. 

1 hour ago, Shweaves said:

I have to disagree with you there. Seeing the game out at 2-0 is not a bad plan. They managed to get 1 shot on target after Kante came on, so no real danger of losing. We don't get more points with a 4/5-0 thrashing and by putting Kante and James on, he's reinforcing the defence to ensure the win, rather than open the game up and invite Newcastle to have clear opportunities. 

If we could beat all teams supposedly weaker sides 1-0 or 2-0 I'd take it any day.

The big problem with that attitude is if the opposition do nick a goal then its panic stations amongst our players. Then if they do get the equaliser the impetus is all with the opposition, our attitude is to defend what we have and its incredibly difficult to then try and change to attack. I just didnt see any reason whatsoever to suddenly go ridiculously defensive in a game we had total control over and were cruising in. It was just very odd.

21 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Doesn't mean we're not going to raise an eyebrow to certain selections (Kepa)

Thought this was a great move myself. Ballsy but he allowed our second choice goalkeeper to get two games in a row, keeping two clean sheets in a row and regain just a littlebit of confidence. Which could be extremely valuable down the road if Mendy happens to be unavailble for some reason.