Concerning that a Championship side were able to make it so difficult for us to play through them when they pressed. Organised Premier League sides will be much tougher and it didn't look like we were capable last night. Hopefully that is mostly down to the new mix of personnel but it was a worry, for sure. 

We do look defensively sound, and all great teams build from the back, but I agree with Tuchel's assessment that we need to be braver. Reece James in particular used to be much more progressive but now he almost always turns back and gives it to the centre back. 

19 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Tuchel is fortunate with the opposition we've faced since coming in. The results we've had so far are probably the same results or similar that Lampard would have got. 

Where we've typically struggled is against teams in the top half of the table who are more willing to step up onto us and play in our half. So far Tuchel has played against sides setting up to play on the back foot against us. 

Creatively we continue to be pretty woeful. Their keeper didn't have to make any saves last night and that's been the story of Tuchel's football so far. 

Still early days yet but the switch in formation doesn't seem to have helped our struggles in the final third. 

Maybe not because Lampard was very rigid with the 4-3-3 that wasn't working and he would have kept playing Kante at the base of the midfield so I doubt that we would have had all these wins, probably mostly draws instead.

31 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Tuchel is fortunate with the opposition we've faced since coming in. The results we've had so far are probably the same results or similar that Lampard would have got. 

Where we've typically struggled is against teams in the top half of the table who are more willing to step up onto us and play in our half. So far Tuchel has played against sides setting up to play on the back foot against us. 

Creatively we continue to be pretty woeful. Their keeper didn't have to make any saves last night and that's been the story of Tuchel's football so far. 

Still early days yet but the switch in formation doesn't seem to have helped our struggles in the final third. 

Given that Wolves beat us not that long ago, that Burnley were not long off a win at Anfield, that we failed to beat Spurs in the previous two attempts this season (and that was when things were still looking promising) and that Sheffield United despite their position have made it hard for every big team this season (which included a recent win at Old Trafford and narrow defeat to Liverpool) I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion we would have picked up the same amount of points.

@Argo @ForeverCarefree Lets not add another 20 pages in a Lampard vs Tuchel debate, I think at this point everyone is tired of the Lampard's Chelsea comparisons and hypotheticals, I don't think we've left any ground uncovered on that matter.

You cant knock ol (IOM), tactically he is very astute, pro active with early substitutions, and the players have duly responded, liking what i see.

In regards to Tuchel I think it's relatively early to make judgement on his impact on the team, we have seen a change of shape but players are playing with more intensity and belief which is fairly standard with a new Manager coming in and players wanting to impress.

From a positive standpoint I found the CHO move to RWB a great way of integrating a young promising player into the team and allows us to play with 2 players in the Number 10 role where we have an abundance of talent. He is also building a team from the back and defensively we have looked solid, even in transition the team's shape is very good and we haven't really looked like conceding on the break due to the structure of the team.

He still has challenges ahead in terms of chance creation and personally I don't think we need to play with 3 CB's against teams operating with a low block, I am looking forward to the evolution of Tuchel's Chelsea and the transition to a back 4.

I hope that Tuchel will manage to find a formation that would include Mount, Havertz, CHO and Pulisic together with someone like Tammy.

If he can make that work and we end up scoring many goals that would be a great success even if we fail to finish top 4 because we would then have a system built around our young and exciting players. 

2 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

@Argo @ForeverCarefree Lets not add another 20 pages in a Lampard vs Tuchel debate, I think at this point everyone is tired of the Lampard's Chelsea comparisons and hypotheticals, I don't think we've left any ground uncovered on that matter.

Yes sorry, I have tried to avoid making any comments that lead to comparing the two (partly out of respect for the posters who were/are raw about Frank's sacking and partly because I can't be arsed) but on that occasion I was baited.

I fully agree it's something both sides of the arguments should try to resist going forward because so far whenever the topic has come up it's turned into a glorified politics thread.

I didn't realise any mention of Lampard was now considered taboo? 

Frank's record against teams in the bottom half of the table was fine, the criticism was mainly he wasn't beating top half sides, especially top 6 sides. 

So until Tuchel plays teams in the top half of the table how much can we measure the team's progression with him at the helm? 

It's not about pining for Lampard but more an acknowledgement of the team and where we're at... We already knew we could beat the Burnley's and Sheffield United's but can we win against the Manchester United's and Leicester's? 

That's not just a question for Tuchel to answer but the whole squad... Are they actually worthy of top 4 or are the likes of Werner, Ziyech and Havertz actual as good as we hoped they would be? So far the evidence is against them... 

Can Tuchel squeeze out more from them? Last night we relied on the academy lads to show a bit of quality whilst Pulisic and Ziyech stank up the joint. 

So do they just need some guidence and coaching or do we face a struggle to compete with this squad? 

5 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I didn't realise any mention of Lampard was now considered taboo? 

Frank's record against teams in the bottom half of the table was fine, the criticism was mainly he wasn't beating top half sides, especially top 6 sides. 

So until Tuchel plays teams in the top half of the table how much can we measure the team's progression with him at the helm? 

It's not about pining for Lampard but more an acknowledgement of the team and where we're at... We already knew we could beat the Burnley's and Sheffield United's but can we win against the Manchester United's and Leicester's? 

That's not just a question for Tuchel to answer but the whole squad... Are they actually worthy of top 4 or are the likes of Werner, Ziyech and Havertz actual as good as we hoped they would be? So far the evidence is against them... 

Can Tuchel squeeze out more from them? Last night we relied on the academy lads to show a bit of quality whilst Pulisic and Ziyech stank up the joint. 

So do they just need some guidence and coaching or do we face a struggle to compete with this squad? 

He has, we beat Spurs!

1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I didn't realise any mention of Lampard was now considered taboo? 

Frank's record against teams in the bottom half of the table was fine, the criticism was mainly he wasn't beating top half sides, especially top 6 sides. 

So until Tuchel plays teams in the top half of the table how much can we measure the team's progression with him at the helm? 

It's not about pining for Lampard but more an acknowledgement of the team and where we're at... We already knew we could beat the Burnley's and Sheffield United's but can we win against the Manchester United's and Leicester's? 

That's not just a question for Tuchel to answer but the whole squad... Are they actually worthy of top 4 or are the likes of Werner, Ziyech and Havertz actual as good as we hoped they would be? So far the evidence is against them... 

Can Tuchel squeeze out more from them? Last night we relied on the academy lads to show a bit of quality whilst Pulisic and Ziyech stank up the joint. 

So do they just need some guidence and coaching or do we face a struggle to compete with this squad? 

I think some, including @Argo, were more concerned about the play in general. We were crap, especially against Arsenal, and some thought that a change in coach would give us a defined play style and improve us. For me, it is early yet to judge the work of Tuchel and I don't want to compare to Lampard's time, but I haven't seen much improvement to be honest. Yes, we have got results, but the play has not been much better than what we were playing around X'mas time. And yesterday's performance was more disgraceful than that against Arsenal, simple as that. 

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I hope that Tuchel will manage to find a formation that would include Mount, Havertz, CHO and Pulisic together with someone like Tammy.

If he can make that work and we end up scoring many goals that would be a great success even if we fail to finish top 4 because we would then have a system built around our young and exciting players. 

I'll accept making Havertz and Pulisic looking like players again who can actively contribute to the team. Both have been incredibly poor when you compare to last seasons efforts. Early days but they have to  improve, then it would be nice to knit together all the potential.

Still early days on Tuchel, but I really wouldn't be surprised to see another manager next season if we don't make top 4, I feel Roman wants someone who isn't available yet.Its only a feeling so please don't crucify me.

2 minutes ago, Bluesince66 said:

Still early days on Tuchel, but I really wouldn't be surprised to see another manager next season if we don't make top 4, I feel Roman wants someone who isn't available yet.Its only a feeling so please don't crucify me.

He probably wants someone who has not been born yet. It's as if he kept looking for perfection and winning every single trophy and playing great football, consistently every season, and that coach has not been born yet.

After 5 games I can see a developing play style whether he can actually evolve this further remains to be seen. We have gone back to for the most part being defensively good.

I've said many times that I'm not against this style, defensively sound and sprinkle in some magic up top.

Its clear what Thomas intends to do, it sounds basic but pick up as many points as possible the style of football is currently not of importance in terms of attacking flair there is a job to do and every match we must do it...win plain and simple and grind it out match day after match day.

Do I want to see a back 4 and a fluid attacking system? Yes, would I settle for 343 for the rest of the season if it grinds us to top 4 and the fa cup?Yes.

I'm convinced we will see a back 4 more regularly this season with the attacking players unleashed I think right now as the term goes we have to suffer in order to make our defense first and most importantly solid once again. 

 I do see a style developing even though its early days, and although some may not like to hear it Jorginho and Kova are two of the key players to unlocking it.  Its not a coincidence the team looked so bad without the two in there yesterday they are the heart of the football Tuchel intends to play in London

3 hours ago, Bluesince66 said:

Still early days on Tuchel, but I really wouldn't be surprised to see another manager next season if we don't make top 4, I feel Roman wants someone who isn't available yet.Its only a feeling so please don't crucify me.

 

4 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

After 5 games I can see a developing play style whether he can actually evolve this further remains to be seen. We have gone back to for the most part being defensively good.

I've said many times that I'm not against this style, defensively sound and sprinkle in some magic up top.

Its clear what Thomas intends to do, it sounds basic but pick up as many points as possible the style of football is currently not of importance in terms of attacking flair there is a job to do and every match we must do it...win plain and simple and grind it out match day after match day.

Do I want to see a back 4 and a fluid attacking system? Yes, would I settle for 343 for the rest of the season if it grinds us to top 4 and the fa cup?Yes.

I'm convinced we will see a back 4 more regularly this season with the attacking players unleashed I think right now as the term goes we have to suffer in order to make our defense first and most importantly solid once again. 

 I do see a style developing even though its early days, and although some may not like to hear it Jorginho and Kova are two of the key players to unlocking it.  Its not a coincidence the team looked so bad without the two in there yesterday they are the heart of the football Tuchel intends to play in London

We’ve been here before, haven’t we? We had several clean sheets at the beginning of the season, and then all went pear shape. We were developing a clear style and, with the congestion of games, all went pear shaped. It’s just a matter of how long before it all goes down the drain again rather than whether we are seeing a play style developing yet again. If we don’t show patience with Tuchel, first slump or second he’s gone and here we go again.

33 minutes ago, RMH said:

We’ve been here before, haven’t we? We had several clean sheets at the beginning of the season, and then all went pear shape. We were developing a clear style and, with the congestion of games, all went pear shaped. It’s just a matter of how long before it all goes down the drain again rather than whether we are seeing a play style developing yet again. If we don’t show patience with Tuchel, first slump or second he’s gone and here we go again.

That is where Tommy Two-shoes experience should kick in otherwise we will again be looking for a new manager.

I think he will get us fourth and that will be good enough for another season.

15 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

That is where Tommy Two-shoes experience should kick in otherwise we will again be looking for a new manager.

I think he will get us fourth and that will be good enough for another season.

We’ve had experienced coaches too that haven’t lasted. The problem is the patience of the board. We’re going to go through slumps and good periods every season, it’s just that we don’t seem to have the patience to give the coach time to go through the slumps.

A few weeks ago some had already written off top 4. Now if results go our way over this round we can be back again. And in my book that’s progress.  Staying there would be another matter and for sure there will be twists and turns in what is quite an exciting season. .  

 

Edited February 13, 20215 yr by ozboy

I think we look way better defensively and much more organised, although that's due to the back 3 formation. 

We're also creating chances again, something we weren't doing after the Leeds game, it was just pass pass pass pass and that was it, went nowhere. Last game was a big reminder of that though unfortunately. I thought the Burnley and Spurs games were very positive performances, but I think it goes without saying if we play like we did last game, we've got no chance of getting top 4. 

Ziyech and Pulisic seriously need to start sorting their sh*t out. Both of them are letting the side down at the moment. 

Don’t think there is much difference in an attacking sense since the new manager has taken over, obviously look better defensively but that’s because we have moved to back 3 and have 7 defensive players.

We have heard Tuchel speak several times of his admiration for Kante. I wonder if he may sacrifice one of the attackers to bring him in to the side and make us even more compact defensively through the middle, such as 3-4-1-1-1 system:

 

Mendy

 

Azpi 

Silva

Rudiger

 

CHO

Kante

Jorginho

Alonso

 

Kovacic

 

Mount

 

Werner

19 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

The biggest task for Tuchel is to get us creating chances, because we are struggling to create more than 2 decent opportunities a game at this point. 

 

Sarriball,way too much emphasis on control. 

18 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

 

He still has challenges ahead in terms of chance creation and personally I don't think we need to play with 3 CB's against teams operating with a low block, I am looking forward to the evolution of Tuchel's Chelsea and the transition to a back 4.

This is how city attack 2 years ago(I barely watch them this year with cancelo and no st) 

Aguero

Sterling - Silva - KDB-B silva

Zinchenko - Ferndinhho

Laporte -stone-walker

So walker played more like a rcb. Walker will make overlapping run more if they want to go more offensive. 

I don't see much difference between that than our lineup.