20 hours ago, Argo said:

Given that Wolves beat us not that long ago, that Burnley were not long off a win at Anfield, that we failed to beat Spurs in the previous two attempts this season (and that was when things were still looking promising) and that Sheffield United despite their position have made it hard for every big team this season (which included a recent win at Old Trafford and narrow defeat to Liverpool) I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion we would have picked up the same amount of points.

Wolves beat us away from home, yes but tbh under Lamps do I reckon we would have lost that game? No. I actually reckon if Tuchel made changes earlier in that game we would have won that but he left it too late. Wolves sat back all game and actually had the best chance in that game but Neto missed. They would have set up same way against Lamps but I think Lamps probably would have brought on likes of Pulisic earlier. As @ForeverCarefree said Lamps record against teams below the top 6 was fine. It was the 'bigger teams' we struggled against. Burnley pulled off a massive win against Liverpool, but that is the PL for you. I am still confident that under Frank we would win that game. Unless for some unfortunate reason such as events in past such as Cahill getting sent off and Matic reacting to a leg-breaking challenge from Barnses and getting sent off, we usually cope well against Burnley. Beat them 3-0 away this season under Lamps which I thought was our best performance this season. I know Burnley have improved but yes I reckon Lampard probably would of had similar results. Sheffield United we scraped a 2-1 win and deserved it but again apart from dominating possession, their was still a lack of fluidity in attack for me. Lamps could have easily won that game too.

We dominated Spurs but even for all our dominance we did not finish them off and Vinicius missed a goal-glaring chance which if Kane was playing that is a different scoreline. Tuchel has made a good start but still think we have lacked productivity in the final third and I think it is unfair for people to immediately go right now "this is why he was brought in". I am not saying you are one of those btw but apart from more improvement defensively, I have not been fully convinced by the style of play. We need to wait till we play likes of United to make a true judgement.

I am not sure if it is players getting used to new formation that is not making the attack very fluid, but I want to see improvements. I expect us to beat Newcastle but it will be good to see a performance where we finish off a team by 3 goals or so and look menacing in attack.

 

11 hours ago, Kev56 said:

 

PMSL , brilliant kev56

8 hours ago, STATS said:

Wolves beat us away from home, yes but tbh under Lamps do I reckon we would have lost that game? No. I actually reckon if Tuchel made changes earlier in that game we would have won that but he left it too late. Wolves sat back all game and actually had the best chance in that game but Neto missed. They would have set up same way against Lamps but I think Lamps probably would have brought on likes of Pulisic earlier. As @ForeverCarefree said Lamps record against teams below the top 6 was fine. It was the 'bigger teams' we struggled against. Burnley pulled off a massive win against Liverpool, but that is the PL for you. I am still confident that under Frank we would win that game. Unless for some unfortunate reason such as events in past such as Cahill getting sent off and Matic reacting to a leg-breaking challenge from Barnses and getting sent off, we usually cope well against Burnley. Beat them 3-0 away this season under Lamps which I thought was our best performance this season. I know Burnley have improved but yes I reckon Lampard probably would of had similar results. Sheffield United we scraped a 2-1 win and deserved it but again apart from dominating possession, their was still a lack of fluidity in attack for me. Lamps could have easily won that game too.

We dominated Spurs but even for all our dominance we did not finish them off and Vinicius missed a goal-glaring chance which if Kane was playing that is a different scoreline. Tuchel has made a good start but still think we have lacked productivity in the final third and I think it is unfair for people to immediately go right now "this is why he was brought in". I am not saying you are one of those btw but apart from more improvement defensively, I have not been fully convinced by the style of play. We need to wait till we play likes of United to make a true judgement.

I am not sure if it is players getting used to new formation that is not making the attack very fluid, but I want to see improvements. I expect us to beat Newcastle but it will be good to see a performance where we finish off a team by 3 goals or so and look menacing in attack.

 

This is all just pure speculation. We were absolutely dreadful against Fulham, we won the game yes, but that performance was disgusting against a 10 man side in relegation. They were still creating chances against us while being a man down and 45 minutes spare. Not to mention they played Spurs in the midweek, we had a full week off to prepare and capitalised on their keepers mistake. 

So I wouldn't be so confident we would take all these teams out under Frank because of his record against the lower sides. 

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

This is all just pure speculation. We were absolutely dreadful against Fulham, we won the game yes, but that performance was disgusting against a 10 man side in relegation. They were still creating chances against us while being a man down and 45 minutes spare. Not to mention they played Spurs in the midweek, we had a full week off to prepare and capitalised on their keepers mistake. 

So I wouldn't be so confident we would take all these teams out under Frank because of his record against the lower sides. 

And we were absolutely disgraceful agains Barnsley, one of the worst and less intense performances I've seen in years. Are we hopeful to beat Newcastle on Monday? The reality is that we could have got the same results under Lampard, we haven't improved much in comparison to the overall time that Lampard has been our coach (don't choose conveniently to compare to the last month under him). But, of course, its all speculation on both sides of the fence. Reality is that we've won with Tuchel and we will never know if we could have done the same with Lampard.

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

This is all just pure speculation. We were absolutely dreadful against Fulham, we won the game yes, but that performance was disgusting against a 10 man side in relegation. They were still creating chances against us while being a man down and 45 minutes spare. Not to mention they played Spurs in the midweek, we had a full week off to prepare and capitalised on their keepers mistake. 

So I wouldn't be so confident we would take all these teams out under Frank because of his record against the lower sides. 

Pure speculation answered with pure speculation 

3 hours ago, Slojo said:

This is all just pure speculation. We were absolutely dreadful against Fulham, we won the game yes, but that performance was disgusting against a 10 man side in relegation. They were still creating chances against us while being a man down and 45 minutes spare. Not to mention they played Spurs in the midweek, we had a full week off to prepare and capitalised on their keepers mistake. 

So I wouldn't be so confident we would take all these teams out under Frank because of his record against the lower sides. 

To be fair to Fulham, they have conceded less goals in the PL than Liverpool this season 🙂

2 hours ago, charierre said:

Pure speculation answered with pure speculation 

Not really, just offering a counter argument. I've already said it's pure speculation.

People are so confident we would win these games under Frank because we were good against the lower league teams can't have watched our performance against Fulham. There's no safe bet, like I said, speculation. 

2 hours ago, RMH said:

And we were absolutely disgraceful agains Barnsley, one of the worst and less intense performances I've seen in years. Are we hopeful to beat Newcastle on Monday? The reality is that we could have got the same results under Lampard, we haven't improved much in comparison to the overall time that Lampard has been our coach (don't choose conveniently to compare to the last month under him). 

That was the period that caused Lampard to be sacked so ofcourse they will be the main part up for comparison. Had we maintained the form from the 6/8 ish weeks leading up to the Everton game he'd still be here.

When Hiddink 1.0 (using this example as the change was made at a similar time) was here his results/performances were largely assessed and scaled against the results/performances that caused us to turn to Guus in the first place, not the one's from earlier when things were looking good under his predecessor.

Here are the facts.

3 wins, 1 draw

10 out of 12 points

10th to 5th on the table

Grow a ball and give the man the credit he deserves. When he starts losing, go ahead and throw him under the bus. For now, hold your tongue; the man is winning.

 

Despite Tuchel is a good manager and we are in a great shape now, I think this team has a really good heritage. Mount, Abraham, James, Gilmour etc.. Lampard did a great job with them. If the team will be success in the future for that we shall remain eternally grateful him. 

Bad to see some people how much not respect Frank. I think sacked him in the middle of this chaotic season was a bad decision. Almost everyone suffer and teams are very close to each other. 

Remember what was under Conte or Sarri in the last years, started well then the bad results came too. This is inevitable and sooner or later the guys will be in bad shape again. The club have to learn how support the managament or we never build a strong team in the long run.

If Tuchel will start losing matches then we begin to criticise him and the club sack him?

Again and again...

Maybe the team was succesful in the last 18 years but maybe if the directorate hold the managers in the past, we would have won even more trophies. 

56 minutes ago, Peterball said:

Despite Tuchel is a good manager and we are in a great shape now, I think this team has a really good heritage. Mount, Abraham, James, Gilmour etc.. Lampard did a great job with them. If the team will be success in the future for that we shall remain eternally grateful him. 

Bad to see some people how much not respect Frank. I think sacked him in the middle of this chaotic season was a bad decision. Almost everyone suffer and teams are very close to each other. 

Remember what was under Conte or Sarri in the last years, started well then the bad results came too. This is inevitable and sooner or later the guys will be in bad shape again. The club have to learn how support the managament or we never build a strong team in the long run.

If Tuchel will start losing matches then we begin to criticise him and the club sack him?

Again and again...

Maybe the team was succesful in the last 18 years but maybe if the directorate hold the managers in the past, we would have won even more trophies. 

Peterball, why not introduce yourself on the Newbies thread, why you like CFC and when you started supporting etc.

Back to your post, I don't think many on here disrespect Lampard, we even had a poll and more wanted him to stay than be sacked.

18 hours ago, Bob stark said:

This is how city attack 2 years ago(I barely watch them this year with cancelo and no st) 

Aguero

Sterling - Silva - KDB-B silva

Zinchenko - Ferndinhho

Laporte -stone-walker

So walker played more like a rcb. Walker will make overlapping run more if they want to go more offensive. 

I don't see much difference between that than our lineup. 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't seriously think that Azpi gives us more of a cutting edge against a low block then an actual attacking player. 

4 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

You can't seriously think that Azpi gives us more of a cutting edge against a low block then an actual attacking player. 

Not really but back 3 is not a problem, you always start with more conservative tactic first and then you can always adjust accordingly with sub. 

Plus azpi is quite good at crossing from deep which is good against packed defense. 

With cho as "rwb", we don't really defend with 5 though. He defend more like a winger rather than a rb. 

My point is back 5 back 4,not really a problem. Offensively you can easily change around how do you want to attack. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Strider6003 said:

Peterball, why not introduce yourself on the Newbies thread, why you like CFC and when you started supporting etc.

Back to your post, I don't think many on here disrespect Lampard, we even had a poll and more wanted him to stay than be sacked.

Sorry guys I didn't think you don't respect Lampard but also I see a lot of people who don't. I read a lot of news and comments, forums etc. in this topic. I read even many of our fans wanted to sack Frank and it is annoying me. I am new here so I'm glad if you agree me.  I wrote this comment just because I see a lot of criticism. 

I will write an introduce myself soon 🙂

49 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Not really but back 3 is not a problem, you always start with more conservative tactic first and then you can always adjust accordingly with sub. 

Plus azpi is quite good at crossing from deep which is good against packed defense. 

With cho as "rwb", we don't really defend with 5 though. He defend more like a winger rather than a rb. 

My point is back 5 back 4,not really a problem. Offensively you can easily change around how do you want to attack. 

 

 

 

 

But that was my point that we've started conservatively under Tuchel and I would like to see him switch to a back 4 against teams who operate with a low block. I don't see the point of having 3 CB's on the pitch against teams like Newcastle, play a back 4 with James as the RB and shift to a 4-2-3-1 with Werner in the number 10 role behind a CF. 

It makes more sense to start with a back 4 against the low block rather then wait until the 2nd half to make the switch, I think Tuchel will make the change especially in the absence of Thiago because he seemed very frustrated against Barnsley when we were unable to get in behind against them. 

Pressure on. Fellow top 4 rivals are falling over themselves, and we could not have asked for a better draw in the FA Cup. 

In the cup unless we draw City I expect Tuchel to "justify" romans choice to sack Lamps by delivering the trophy and getting us top 4.

CL would be a bonus to get past Atletico.

The table since Tuchel took over on 26th January :

Liverpool, United, Everton and Arsenal all in the bottom half and Spurs in relegation form LOL

While we will of course never know, it seems a massive stretch to say we would have won those games had Lampard stayed. Team spirit / morale had collapsed and we were in a doom loop. Lampard is a club icon so many will naturally place the blame for that collapse on the players. But it had its roots in SFL’s deficiencies in coaching, tactics and man management. He just wasn’t quite up to it. I never called for him to be sacked, but my head says it probably had to happen. He just wasn’t ready.

I think if we get into the top 4 on Monday, I think we can agree that the club did make the right decision - however sad the decision was. 

I somehow feel like that we could do well in final stages of CL

12 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Pressure on. Fellow top 4 rivals are falling over themselves, and we could not have asked for a better draw in the FA Cup. 

In the cup unless we draw City I expect Tuchel to "justify" romans choice to sack Lamps by delivering the trophy and getting us top 4.

CL would be a bonus to get past Atletico.

I think that the pressure was on the moment he took the job.

5 hours ago, JM7 said:

I think if we get into the top 4 on Monday, I think we can agree that the club did make the right decision - however sad the decision was. 

Not for me. Being in the top 4 means nothing, finishing in the top 4 is what matters in the league, at least that is what the club showed us when they changed manager.

Unless City stop us I expect us to do better in the FA cup this season as well.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

I think that the pressure was on the moment he took the job.

Very true, however opportunity is knocking in the league and we need to take it.

5 hours ago, JM7 said:

I think if we get into the top 4 on Monday, I think we can agree that the club did make the right decision - however sad the decision was. 

Not sure you can say that until the end of the season, we were top of the league when we had easy run, everything went apart during that 5/6 games run against quality opp

 

The good news is that draws against top league clubs might be enough now to reach the top 4.
When Tuchel took over it looked like only wins even against the top league clubs would help.
So it looks now a little bit better but the pressure is still there to win tomorrow against Newcastle.

15 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

But that was my point that we've started conservatively under Tuchel and I would like to see him switch to a back 4 against teams who operate with a low block. I don't see the point of having 3 CB's on the pitch against teams like Newcastle, play a back 4 with James as the RB and shift to a 4-2-3-1 with Werner in the number 10 role behind a CF. 

It makes more sense to start with a back 4 against the low block rather then wait until the 2nd half to make the switch, I think Tuchel will make the change especially in the absence of Thiago because he seemed very frustrated against Barnsley when we were unable to get in behind against them. 

Like what I posted previously, city playing back 4 and we played back "5", but the way we build and player position is in general quite similar. It really does not really matter on the offensive side of thing. 

What matter more is player selection and how you want to play. Pool and city are very good example of two monster team with  contrasting against packed defense.

Pool simply can't play city tippy tappy football, they have athletic team but not super technical as city, the way pool broke team down is to play high intensity football, direct n fast, they spam crosses, hunt you down recycle. 

City is different they have technical player everywhere, hence they play slower tempo, keep probing until they found opening (usually set pattern) and  just keep doing it (back post tap in is their mantra) 

We on the other hand  don't have the technician of city nor the athleticism of pool so we have to play slightly in between, we can't keep playing this Sarriballesque possession ball, we will struggle to create goals, we need to play more direct but not poolesque, slower. We need to accept that we will lose possession so we need to protect our backline (kante) and press hard (everyone).