Can I point people in the direction of Sunderland Till I Die it shows who does the hiring and firing and who has the ultimate decision and it's not the technical director.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

How so? Being a link between our first team and academy team and being involved for the assessment of our performance and football stuff has nothing to do with the decision of sacking or appointing a manager at all.

 

He provides advice on all football and performance matters. 

Who do you think he's providing that advice to? Do you think he reports into the first team coach or Marina/Bruce Buck? Or do you think it's everything but the first team coach he's providing advice on? 

I'm genuinely confused how a different interpretation is being made here to mine. 

His job is to provide advice to the board on all football and performance matters. We both agree on that. But then many seem to think "ah but that doesn't include the first team coach". I don't know how that conclusion has been made. 

Edited February 18, 20215 yr by bisright1

30 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

His job is to provide advice to the board on all football and performance matters. We both agree on that. But then many seem to think "ah but that doesn't include the first team coach". I don't know how that conclusion has been made. 

Reminds me of when Conte with a big history of signing targetmen apparently had nothing to do with the fact we were getting linked with every target man under the sun.

13 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

He provides advice on all football and performance matters. 

Who do you think he's providing that advice to? Do you think he reports into the first team coach or Marina/Bruce Buck? Or do you think it's everything but the first team coach he's providing advice on? 

I'm genuinely confused how a different interpretation is being made here to mine. 

His job is to provide advice to the board on all football and performance matters. We both agree on that. But then many seem to think "ah but that doesn't include the first team coach". I don't know how that conclusion has been made. 

He's an adviser when it comes to performance and football, practical related assessments and feedback, mainly connecting the different departments. His title even suggests that he has a smaller influence than Emenalo that was working as a director of football.

His role doesn't imply that he has anything to do with judging how a coach or a manager is doing his job or appointing a coach or a manager, he doesn't fire nor appoint the staff at all - he is in a practical and more "on the field" role, nobody from upstairs needs to ask him whether or not the manager should be sacked.

So I can only agree to disagree, I don't think that Cech was even asked regarding Lampard's status as that isn't a part of his job from my point of view, unless you can point where it says otherwise.

41 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

He provides advice on all football and performance matters. 

Who do you think he's providing that advice to? Do you think he reports into the first team coach or Marina/Bruce Buck? Or do you think it's everything but the first team coach he's providing advice on? 

I'm genuinely confused how a different interpretation is being made here to mine. 

His job is to provide advice to the board on all football and performance matters. We both agree on that. But then many seem to think "ah but that doesn't include the first team coach". I don't know how that conclusion has been made. 

I'm not sure what in-depth knowledge you have of the Chelsea hierarchy, so I am happy to be corrected if you do have that knowledge, but taking direct quotes from Cech himself about his role, he says 

" I work towards the game, making sure everything works, and then the responsibility is to the manager and his staff, not me."

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2019/11/23/20978409/petr-cech-chelsea-arsenal-on-his-new-role-as-the-clubs-technical-and-performance-adviser

Where it is specifically stated several times that he says "the responsibility is to work with a big group of people, to make sure they connect."

" Generally when you work with a lot of different people at this level it is run by departments. But there are a lot. The best part for me is connecting the departments. This is my biggest target, to make sure everything is connected and works one way."

Nowhere anything about deciding or even having any input to decisions on sacking a manager or even reporting to the board directly.

Obviously you might know better than Cech himself, though.

13 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I'm not sure what in-depth knowledge you have of the Chelsea hierarchy, so I am happy to be corrected if you do have that knowledge, but taking direct quotes from Cech himself about his role, he says 

" I work towards the game, making sure everything works, and then the responsibility is to the manager and his staff, not me."

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2019/11/23/20978409/petr-cech-chelsea-arsenal-on-his-new-role-as-the-clubs-technical-and-performance-adviser

Where it is specifically stated several times that he says "the responsibility is to work with a big group of people, to make sure they connect."

" Generally when you work with a lot of different people at this level it is run by departments. But there are a lot. The best part for me is connecting the departments. This is my biggest target, to make sure everything is connected and works one way."

Nowhere anything about deciding or even having any input to decisions on sacking a manager or even reporting to the board directly.

Obviously you might know better than Cech himself, though.

 

15 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He's an adviser when it comes to performance and football, practical related assessments and feedback, mainly connecting the different departments. His title even suggests that he has a smaller influence than Emenalo that was working as a director of football.

His role doesn't imply that he has anything to do with judging how a coach or a manager is doing his job or appointing a coach or a manager, he doesn't fire nor appoint the staff at all - he is in a practical and more "on the field" role, nobody from upstairs needs to ask him whether or not the manager should be sacked.

So I can only agree to disagree, I don't think that Cech was even asked regarding Lampard's status as that isn't a part of his job from my point of view, unless you can point where it says otherwise.

both of you are literally writing 2+2 and then to me, saying 5. 

I can't understand this chat at all. 

Cech advises the board on football and performance matters. You then both talk about what he says his job is and isn't from quotes, none of that proves your point or disproves mine. 

So he isn't responsible for what happens on the pitch, yeah okay I never said Cech was. That he works with the different departments, okay sure what does that have to do with anything. 

Obviously he's not going to tell an interviewer "so yeah if Frank ever f**ks up I'll be there to tell Marina to chop him". That much should just be implied by the fact that he is advising the board on all footballing and performance matters!

 

Anyway, can we give up now. I want Cech to have that important role. I think it's valuable. I want Cech to have turned round to the board and said "Lampard isn't getting this team working, the team is underperforming and I think a change of manager would be good". If there is anyone at the club who I want to be saying that, it's him. I hope to god that Cech did that. Because 1) That means the decision was the right one and 2) It means we are listening to someone with a footballing brain and not a financial brain. 

Maybe I want it too much that I am seeing something that isn't there. But I really hope you lot aren't doing the opposite, because the best thing for this club would be a man like Cech is at the centre of all long term footballing decisions for the club. 

4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

 

 

Cech advises the board on football and performance matters.

Where did you get this from?

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

He provides advice on all football and performance matters. 

Who do you think he's providing that advice to? Do you think he reports into the first team coach or Marina/Bruce Buck? Or do you think it's everything but the first team coach he's providing advice on? 

I'm genuinely confused how a different interpretation is being made here to mine. 

His job is to provide advice to the board on all football and performance matters. We both agree on that. But then many seem to think "ah but that doesn't include the first team coach". I don't know how that conclusion has been made. 

 Emenalo and Cech have two different job titles. The former quite definitely being a Technical Director. This position wasn't offered to Cech possibly as that would have made him the managers direct supervisor which could have undermined Lampard, both previously being team mates. His named position was a new role within the club carrying with it the responsibilities as per @Gol15 has stated. He was brought in most likely under or at best equal to Frank so as to avoid the shed end having to write 10 pages on his role in the sacking. He at no point has been Technical Director to this date.

6 minutes ago, dkw said:

Where did you get this from?

Well it's what is on the website. He advises on football and performance matters. 

It's the first line of what his job is. 

Look, I want Cech to be in the role I've described. I want Cech to have been the sacker of Lampard. It would be the best thing all round. A footballing man with a long term vision being at the heart of decisions. 

I don't care who the manager is, but someone who bleeds chelsea and who loves football being in that role, making the real decisions that affect our club. That's what I want.

If I'm wrong and he's actually just performing a figure head role and has no influence, I'll be disappointed. 

Just now, bisright1 said:

Well it's what is on the website. He advises on football and performance matters. 

It's the first line of what his job is. 

That doesnt say he advises the board though. the wording makes it sound to me like he advises the coaches at all the levels.

Quote

provides advice on all football and performance matters throughout the club 

 

3 minutes ago, dkw said:

That doesnt say he advises the board though. the wording makes it sound to me like he advises the coaches at all the levels.

 

Well there we differ. I read it differently. I don't see how we hired him to report into frank lampard. Or to advise the coaches.

If we did. It's a sh*t appointment. Cech has no coaching experience.

Throughout the club to me means he reports into marina or bruce. If they aren't including on this list, then he isn't reporting throughout the club.

I'm fairly certain I'm correct on this and I don't want to have my mind changed. It will make me incredibly pessimistic about the future of our club. What has excited me about chelsea is Cech and how he's creating a long term future for our club we can believe in. Different to united where everything is an ed woodward decision. If we are still an ed woodward style club then we're going to continue playing second fiddle to liverpool and man city for the next decade.

Edited February 18, 20215 yr by bisright1

23 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Well there we differ. I read it differently.

So Petr Cech himself describes his role differently to you, the club's website describes it differently to you, but, because you have such strong convictions that they are wrong, you "read it differently". 

So confident are you that you say "I'm fairly certain I'm correct on this and I don't want to have my mind changed".  That is the mindset of either a fundamentalist or an idiot who refuses to accept the evidence presented to them.

I know who I believe the most is all I can say.

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

So Petr Cech himself describes his role differently to you, the club's website describes it differently to you, but, because you have such strong convictions that they are wrong, you "read it differently". 

So confident are you that you say "I'm fairly certain I'm correct on this and I don't want to have my mind changed".  That is the mindset of either a fundamentalist or an idiot who refuses to accept the evidence presented to them.

I know who I believe the most is all I can say.

I actually don't think either describe it differently. 

Yes I'm a fundamentalist. I accept that here. I don't want my mind changed. I like my world where Cech is at the centre of footballing decisions. I don't want chelsea to be run by business people. I want a footballing man at the heart of it

I think we have that. I think Cech and the club have described his role to me like that. Your quotes don't read differently to me. 

What might be the case is that he has no power, he's a glorified figurehead. I hope we haven't done that. 

Edited February 18, 20215 yr by bisright1

I keep thinking of Cech's role and this guy '' Assistant to the regional manager''.

@bisright1 Your opinion is that Cech was most likely asked about if Lampard should be sacked and didn't say that Lampard should be given more time.

I don't believe he was even asked that question, I think if he was asked something it was about how the team looks, he said his opinion about the performances of our squad and that was used to as just another pointer in order to see the big picture. After all his role is to connect the different departments and on top of it he's also a registered keeper for us so it would be strange for the board to ask him if he is fine with the decision to sack Lampard, it makes no difference.

That's how I see it and for me to think that I don't need to further read into what was said so I don't need to have any element of fantasy like you...

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

@bisright1 Your opinion is that Cech was most likely asked about if Lampard should be sacked and didn't say that Lampard should be given more time.

I don't believe he was even asked that question, I think if he was asked something it was about how the team looks, he said his opinion about the performances of our squad and that was used to as just another pointer in order to see the big picture. After all his role is to connect the different departments and on top of it he's also a registered keeper for us so it would be strange for the board to ask him if he is fine with the decision to sack Lampard, it makes no difference.

That's how I see it and for me to think that I don't need to further read into what was said so I don't need to have any element of fantasy like you...

Yeah and I think if I'm hiring someone to do the job you've outlined, I'd expect them to report on how those departments are doing. 

I also read when the club says he advises the club on football matters, that the club is the board. Whereas you think it's not the board and it's those departments. 

That's the difference. 

I can kind of see how you have come to that conclusion. But it feels a bit of a stretch to me.

We are talking about the guy who flew to Germany to convince werner and Havertz to sign. Who was central to the decision to sign mendy. But when it comes to having any input on Lampard the board would rather trust their own instincts than have any input from their man on the ground for info. I just don't buy it. 

The majority view by the way is Cech was consulted. The minority seems to be me  and argo in saying his opinion was important. I was actually ridiculed for saying anyone had your opinion that he wasn't even asked, I can't believe you think he wasn't even asked!

 

Edited February 18, 20215 yr by bisright1

8 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Yeah and I think if I'm hiring someone to do the job you've outlined, I'd expect them to report on how those departments are doing. 

I also read when the club says he advises the club on football matters, that the club is the board. Whereas you think it's not the board and it's those departments. 

That's the difference. 

I can kind of see how you have come to that conclusion. But it feels a bit of a stretch to me.

We are talking about the guy who flew to Germany to convince werner and Havertz to sign. Who was central to the decision to sign mendy. But when it comes to having any input on Lampard the board would rather trust their own instincts than have any input from their man on the ground for info. I just don't buy it. 

The majority view by the way is Cech was consulted. The minority seems to be me  and argo in saying his opinion was important. I was actually ridiculed for saying anyone had your opinion that he wasn't even asked, I can't believe you think he wasn't even asked!

 

From what I understand the area in which Cech operates he doesn't do with sacking or appointing our staff - His input therefore would have more to do with how he sees the team is doing and so on, not from his own view of how Lampard is doing his own job but rather from how the players are doing and from how he sees the team is organized.

This is why I don't believe that he was asked about how he believes that Lampard is doing his job.

He's been involved first in coaching the keepers and this role as the adviser he has been doing for just like 1 season or so, I doubt that the board would look to him to make such a tough decision that would involve sacking Lampard since he hasn't been doing this role for a long time - he's still new despite the fact that he's good at it so I believe that he was asked about how the team is doing and Marina maybe used that answer as an additional tool for the decision that was made which to me wouldn't put Cech in a position where he would need to talk about Lampard, on a personal level I feel that the club did this in a professional way and in such a way where Cech didn't need to answer any hard question but was just kept to doing his job.

I guess we'll never know the full truth anyway. I didn't ridicule you I just don't believe that Cech ever said that Lampard should be sacked.

TBH, its all just guesswork, absolutely none of us have a clue the machinations in Chelsea football club, we watch from afar, and try to join the dots, Marina and TTs job is about the only things we really have any inclination about, ........unless of course someone on here is privy to inside info?

12 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

TBH, its all just guesswork, absolutely none of us have a clue the machinations in Chelsea football club, we watch from afar, and try to join the dots, Marina and TTs job is about the only things we really have any inclination about, ........unless of course someone on here is privy to inside info?

Thank you! None of us how things happen at the club, so can we get this thread back on topic, which is Thomas Tuchel.

Had a good presser again, addressed everything and didn't hide from any of the different questions. Here's hoping for another win tomorrow and some rotatiom either at the start or throughout the game.

Random off topic question for anyone to answer if I was to make a thread is it possible to add in a poll or do I need an admin/mod to do that?

7 hours ago, Valerie said:

get this thread back on topic,

Oh you silly bimbo, that's not how it works.

Where's your pie-chart?

Where's your youtube link?

Where's your random opinion expressed as FACT?

Liverpool game now confirmed for March 4th.

Means we have a run of fixtures of 

Atletico Madrid, Feb 23rd

Manchester United, Feb 28th

Liverpool, March 4th

Everton, March 8th

Leeds, March 13th 

Atletico Madrid, March 17th 

So for those of us who have said Tuchel has had easier run of fixtures for his first six games, the following six should probably teach us more about Tuchel and the squad and where they are competitively. 

If we make it through that lot with only 2 losses, I think I'd be happy. 

31 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Liverpool game now confirmed for March 4th.

Means we have a run of fixtures of 

Atletico Madrid, Feb 23rd

Manchester United, Feb 28th

Liverpool, March 4th

Everton, March 8th

Leeds, March 13th 

Atletico Madrid, March 17th 

So for those of us who have said Tuchel has had easier run of fixtures for his first six games, the following six should probably teach us more about Tuchel and the squad and where they are competitively. 

If we make it through that lot with only 2 losses, I think I'd be happy. 

If we lose the lot, think we might looking for another manager

31 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Liverpool game now confirmed for March 4th.

Means we have a run of fixtures of 

Atletico Madrid, Feb 23rd

Manchester United, Feb 28th

Liverpool, March 4th

Everton, March 8th

Leeds, March 13th 

Atletico Madrid, March 17th 

So for those of us who have said Tuchel has had easier run of fixtures for his first six games, the following six should probably teach us more about Tuchel and the squad and where they are competitively. 

If we make it through that lot with only 2 losses, I think I'd be happy. 

I think we’ll see the tactical side of the man that we’ve been lead to believe we’re getting.

I’m looking forward to seeing how he faces up to the challenge.

 

42 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

If we make it through that lot with only 2 losses, I think I'd be happy. 

Yup, lose the games against A.Madrid, win the rest 👍