Too many passengers and passive attitudes. In any other Premier league season I think the bad attitudes would be even more apparent.

He's got a huge job on his hands...

7 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Hopefully people realize 3412 system is designed to suit two players. One is Havertz the other is Werner. So when a system is designed for you, you have to be great every game, not good because being good is not good enough. 

 

 

 

 

I don't buy that. As of yet there is no evidence, that this system particularly suits Havertz. And while it does suit Werner, it also really suits Alonso, CHO, Christensen, Azpi. In the first game under Tuchel, where we played this formation he didn't even use Werner.

Edited February 20, 20215 yr by True Blue23

Just now, True Blue23 said:

I don't buy that. As of yet there is no evidence, that this system particularly suits Havertz. And while it does suit Werner, it also really suits Alonso, CHO, Christensen, Azpi. 

Havertz is a 10,he will be fine playing Mount role but Mount has been killing it so it wil be difficult. 

CHO suit almost any formation that has winger in it. 

No sane manager will build team thinking about getting the best out of Christensen, alonso and azpi. 

 

Peculiar substations today aside, I think he’s done a pretty good job so far. He’s stabilised a team that were bordering on free fall, although he has had a handy run of fixtures to do so.

There’s been a clear improvement in our pressing and also we are far more solid defensively/less vulnerable to counter attacks.

The lack of chance creation is the only negative I have towards his style of play so far , but I’m hoping this will improve with time and some of it is down to poor execution on the part of the players. For example, Werner completely over hit a pass to alonso who was on the overlap inside the box in the first half, while mount played one a couple yards behind James on the other wing.

3 tough games now in a row in the league and CL, after which I think we will have a much clearer view on how things will go under Tuchel.

6 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

I  In the first game under Tuchel, where we played this formation he didn't even use Werner.

We have moved from 343 into more 3412

Today was terrible especially the subs. We couldn't do anything because Soton didn't give us space to work with, we had the possession but the final ball have been atrocious. 

 

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

We have moved from 343 into more 3412

Yes, the 3412 is to suit Werner, but when we play Giroud or Tammy, we play 343 and Werner does fine there as well. I think that's more about Tuchel not trusting our main strikers and appearently he doesn't trust Werner as a lone striker either. 

I think he started with 3 at the back, because he saw that as the easiest way to make us more stable defensively, which gives us  (and him) a base where we can build from. 

Just now, True Blue23 said:

Yes, the 3412 is to suit Werner, but when we play Giroud or Tammy, we play 343 and Werner does fine there as well. I think that's more about Tuchel not trusting our main strikers and appearently he doesn't trust Werner as a lone striker either. 

I think he started with 3 at the back, because he saw that as the easiest way to make us more stable defensively, which gives us  (and him) a base where we can build from. 

Even when cho came in, we played 3412. It is not about not trusting st but Werner can't play as single striker and he can't play as winger also. 

Playing 3 at the back is fine but when we are chasing games, he need to ask azpi to push up more and I don't understand why cho didn't play as wb/rw today. It was no brainer

 

Really happy with him. Plays good football, tactically flexible and not afraid to make the big calls. 

7 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Even when cho came in, we played 3412. It is not about not trusting st but Werner can't play as single striker and he can't play as winger also. 

Playing 3 at the back is fine but when we are chasing games, he need to ask azpi to push up more and I don't understand why cho didn't play as wb/rw today. It was no brainer

 

Yup, I agree with you on that front. The game management today was bizarre to me and I also didn't like Callum having to play a position that doesn't suit him, and then being taken off as a result, just to accomodate Werner, who had a bad game himself.

I just don't think that in general Tuchel introduced the 3 at the back formation to suit Werner and Havertz, which was your initial point.

Edited February 20, 20215 yr by True Blue23

Today was the first real test of in game management and TT failed spectacularly!

Don't forget we’ve been told he’s a tactical genius that spots things in games and shifts the formation to suit.

You read it hear first, no way is he here beyond the initial 18 months!

8 minutes ago, Delroy said:

Really happy with him. Plays good football, tactically flexible and not afraid to make the big calls. 

This is good football? 

10 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

Yup, I agree with you on that front. The game management today was bizarre to me and I also didn't like Callum having to play a position that doesn't suit him, and then being taken off as a result, just to accomodate Werner, who had a bad game himself.

I just don't think that in general Tuchel introduced the 3 at the back formation to suit Werner and Havertz, which was your initial point.

It is not the 3 at the back, it is the two st format with a 10 behind. 

Right now Tuchel basically build the team for Werner over puli or Ziyech. 

People overrate some of our players if they expect free-flowing, fantastic football right now. Abraham & Werner are arguably not good enough at the moment and we had to look too Mount for any kind of potency in the attacking third today. The beforementioned are neither great at controlling the ball, holding it up or passing meaning it's going to be a struggle to create chances and score.

 

4 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

This is good football? 

He’s a troll, not a bright one either.

9 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Today was the first real test of in game management and TT failed spectacularly!

Don't forget we’ve been told he’s a tactical genius that spots things in games and shifts the formation to suit.

You read it hear first, no way is he here beyond the initial 18 months!

This reaction from a draw? Imagine if we lose...

I worry when any manager publicly scrutinies one of their players, I really don't think CHO deserved to be called out like that especially considering he's been playing pretty decently recently.

1 minute ago, TomCFC85 said:

I worry when any manager publicly scrutinies one of their players, I really don't think CHO deserved to be called out like that especially considering he's been playing pretty decently recently.

Well when you play with the big boys you have to take it on the chin and move on.......unless he wants a participation trophy. 

2 minutes ago, TomCFC85 said:

This reaction from a draw? Imagine if we lose...

That’s been my view since the first game I watched of his, which I think was the Tottenham game.

It’s ponderous football that shows a limited coaching ability.

Obviously this is just my opinion.

48 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

He's using the younger players as a scape goat for his own sh*t mistakes. I didn't think Hudson-Odoi was great when he came on, but I don't think he was anywhere near bad enough to be subbed off. If he was disappointed with Hudson-Odoi's work rate, then he should be livid with a few of the senior players. 

Looks like another one of those coaches that will take it out on the younger more inexperienced players when things don't go right. If he is going to be like that, then he is going to learn a very hard lesson when the same players that let our other managers down do the same to him.

Alonso was playing a stinker today. He had TWO left backs on the bench but instead chose to sub off the player he subbed on because of his body language? 

Just now, Bob stark said:

It is not the 3 at the back, it is the two st format with a 10 behind. 

Right now Tuchel basically build the team for Werner over puli or Ziyech. 

3412 doesn't work with our team because Ziyech, Pulisic, CHO are wasted. Chilwell and Emerson becomes even more useless.

All our CBs except Silva and to a lesser extent Christensen doesn't really suit the formation other than just filling up spots. Zouma and Rudiger are RCBs that function better in a 4 and low block next to a sitting defender. Azpi is declining.

Our 3 strikers don't work well with each other. Giroud needs someone like Suarez or Alexis Sanchez. Tammy is better with wingers and Werner is a Jamie Vardy-type of striker.

Mount is a better No. 10 than Havertz right now so Havertz is the odd man out again. 

18 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Today was the first real test of in game management and TT failed spectacularly!

Had we lost against Tottenham you would have said that was the first real test. Let's be honest.

Some go completely overboard. Did it with Lampard and clearly they intend to do the same with Tuchel.

 

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Had we lost against Tottenham you would have said that was the first real test. Let's be honest.

Some go completely overboard. Did it with Lampard and clearly they intend to do the same with Tuchel.

 

The test he failed was in overcoming a deficit and a team that had negated his tactics.

If you get beaten by a better team, that’s how it goes.

We were told by all the ‘experts’ that he changed formations during games if it wasn’t working, have you seen him do that yet?

You can win, draw or lose, that’s football, but you have to ask questions of the opponent and TT failed to do that today.

Once again we got out of jail due to a silly challenge from an opposition player in the box.

I'm always sceptical when a manager is labelled a "tactical genius" Especially when they have no experience in the EPL. The last alleged "tactical genius" we had was Sarri. And 90% of his matches in charge bored me to death.

Tommy Tactics probably needs to find the inner courage to actually try different formations when things aren't working, rather than throw a youngster under the bus.

Unless West Ham win we stay in top 4 so I'm not sure why people are so quick to turn on a manager with 4 wins and 2 draws in a new league with 2 goals conceeded. Like most I can stomach the lack of attacking football as long as we grind out the 3 points. However, todays draw isn't all on Tom.

Did Thomas get the subs wrong? Almost certainly doesn't mean he's entirely at fault for today's performance. From outside looking in, it looks like he's doing the best with what he's got. Aside from hitting the bar and that one lapse in concentration they barely threatened.