4 minutes ago, Argo said:

Tbh (and I think we clashed a couple of times due to it) I did like the potential from last season, expected inconsistency's but when it came together things did look very good.

The hope from my side is that as time went on the raw sides of Frank management eroded and the promise became more dominant but unfortunately the total opposite happened.

And you think that yesterday or Barnsley we looked better? My point here is that Tuchel is no magician, our level at the moment is what it is and no change in coach will make this group look like a proper team without time to work on it. That’s what I ask for, time to the coach to get a settled team, style and get all the potential from these players.

21 minutes ago, RMH said:

And you think that yesterday or Barnsley we looked better? My point here is that Tuchel is no magician, our level at the moment is what it is and no change in coach will make this group look like a proper team without time to work on it. That’s what I ask for, time to the coach to get a settled team, style and get all the potential from these players.

Barnsley yes was awful no arguments there (and yes if we had two months of those level of performances I'd "turn against" him aswell and I'd Hazard a guess I won't be in as big a minority this time round) for yesterday, the final third we were pretty hopeless granted but the reason we were able to f**k up that much in the final third in the first place is because our play in the first two thirds was good enough to constantly get us there. Also as I said in a previous post, one of the best sides this league has seen is having an almost identical type of game to what we had at Southampton right now.

I guess what the "boring possession" type of games (which also happened a lot last season under Frank aswell, especially at Stamford Bridge) does show is Sarri's influence on this squad is still strong, I'll let people decide themselves whether that's a good thing.

My metrics on whether I back manager's when they hit trouble is always been the same and that's whether I see signs they can get us out of it, it's why I backed Sarri and not Scolari and why I backed Lampard through the first three blips and not the fourth.

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by Argo

35 minutes ago, Argo said:

Tbh (and I think we clashed a couple of times due to it) I did like the potential from last season, expected inconsistency's but when it came together things did look very good.

The hope from my side is that as time went on the raw sides of Frank management eroded and the promise became more dominant but unfortunately the total opposite happened.

Same.  I always thought Lampard was such a curious intellectual, that he'd be constantly looking for how to improve. 

However he actually morphed into another Harry Redknapp. Someone who was very much of the old school, "work harder and you win, that's all that matters" type. 

Im completely ambivalent about this year now though. If Tuchel is going to take us back to the elite of world.football, it won't be seen this season. Right now the order of the day is grind out the results and get top 4. We should be able to do that. 

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by bisright1

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

Agreed. I will be surprised if we see anything different. Our best run this season under Lampard was during a similarly favorable set of fixtures. We dipped when we cam across tougher opposition. So far I have seen nothing to suggest things will be drastically different under Tuchel. 

Indeed. For me while TT clearly has an edge over Frank in expierence he has the same problem as him, in that this group of players are vastly overrated and our signings simply have not hit the ground running, bar Werner and Silva, the former burning out after the first two months.

Aside from Mount our youngster have the same problem as most youth players, needing to learn by mistakes and being inconsistent.

Add that to an average goalkeeper, a vastly declining Dave along with every defender bar Silva not being good enough for an elite team. A midfield that lacks creation and a forward line that relies on Mount to drive us forward, Giroud to have the odd blue patch and Werner to win pens.

As a group and especially as a team we are not good enough. Pep and Klopp would do no better with this lot and sadly we wasted a lot of money on duds. I really dont see how however makes the signings manages to keep their job.

While I am unhappy with how TT approached yesterday's game it will be on the players when we return from the next lot of games likely down in 9th in the table and out of the CL. Least is what I am expecting as Mount and Silva cannot do it alone against such teams.

47 minutes ago, Argo said:

And as I type City are currently having an all the possession not many chances created type of game or as some say "boring watch".

Should have kept Pellegrini!

I watched some of the game and City could have been out of sight in the first 30 mins. I don't remember us creating all these clear cut chances in recent games. City definitely didn't put the game out of reach for once, so there was always the risk of an equalizer. But they looked comfortable an in control for most of the game. I was also impressed by the work rate shown by the players. If you are going to play this kind of press players have to be willing to chase everything. I just don't see the same energy from our players.

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Indeed. For me while TT clearly has an edge over Frank in expierence he has the same problem as him, in that this group of players are vastly overrated and our signings simply have not hit the ground running, bar Werner and Silva, the former burning out after the first two months.

Aside from Mount our youngster have the same problem as most youth players, needing to learn by mistakes and being inconsistent.

Add that to an average goalkeeper, a vastly declining Dave along with every defender bar Silva not being good enough for an elite team. A midfield that lacks creation and a forward line that relies on Mount to drive us forward, Giroud to have the odd blue patch and Werner to win pens.

As a group and especially as a team we are not good enough. Pep and Klopp would do no better with this lot and sadly we wasted a lot of money on duds. I really dont see how however makes the signings manages to keep their job.

While I am unhappy with how TT approached yesterday's game it will be on the players when we return from the next lot of games likely down in 9th in the table and out of the CL. Least is what I am expecting as Mount and Silva cannot do it alone against such teams.

Exactly. Tuchel will run into the same challenges that Frank did. Presumably he will identify transfer targets that he is interested in us signing to improve the squad. But he will ultimately get whatever the board goes for, and based on previous windows that probably means the wrong players.

59 minutes ago, Argo said:

And as I type City are currently having an all the possession not many chances created type of game or as some say "boring watch".

Should have kept Pellegrini!

You think we play the same way as City?

12 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Indeed. For me while TT clearly has an edge over Frank in expierence he has the same problem as him, in that this group of players are vastly overrated and our signings simply have not hit the ground running, bar Werner and Silva, the former burning out after the first two months.

Aside from Mount our youngster have the same problem as most youth players, needing to learn by mistakes and being inconsistent.

Add that to an average goalkeeper, a vastly declining Dave along with every defender bar Silva not being good enough for an elite team. A midfield that lacks creation and a forward line that relies on Mount to drive us forward, Giroud to have the odd blue patch and Werner to win pens.

As a group and especially as a team we are not good enough. Pep and Klopp would do no better with this lot and sadly we wasted a lot of money on duds. I really dont see how however makes the signings manages to keep their job.

While I am unhappy with how TT approached yesterday's game it will be on the players when we return from the next lot of games likely down in 9th in the table and out of the CL. Least is what I am expecting as Mount and Silva cannot do it alone against such teams.

I agree with this except your last sentence, it will be TT's coaching and picking the right team that will get us back into contention for fourth after this spell of six matches. Of course the players also need to play well.

 

25 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Same.  I always thought Lampard was such a curious intellectual, that he'd be constantly looking for how to improve. 

However he actually morphed into another Harry Redknapp. Someone who was very much of the old school, "work harder and you win, that's all that matters" type. 

Im completely ambivalent about this year now though. If Tuchel is going to take us back to the elite of world.football, it won't be seen this season. Right now the order of the day is grind out the results and get top 4. We should be able to do that. 

😂😂😂 o no you didn't 

Are you telling me I will be getting deadline day interviews from Lampard 😂😂

Please tell me someone has messed with TTs Wikipedia and his middle name isn’t Ian?

Otherwise the mans initials spell TIT 😂

The team from Conte’s second year to now have had the same issues and that is with four different managers. There are still 9 players from the Conte squad still here, 10 if you count Willian being here until last season.

The managers have similar philosophy’s when playing a front three playing them narrow with fullbacks overlapping, maybe this is not working for the players we have. Something needs to change going forward.

25 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I agree with this except your last sentence, it will be TT's coaching and picking the right team that will get us back into contention for fourth after this spell of six matches. Of course the players also need to play well.

 

Dont think he will be able to, dont think the players are good enough, does not matter who the coach is imo.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Dont think he will be able to, dont think the players are good enough, does not matter who the coach is imo.

Sorry but that is BS, we have some outstanding talent! It’s up to the manager to unlock that talent and allow it to shine.

 

29 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Sorry but that is BS, we have some outstanding talent! It’s up to the manager to unlock that talent and allow it to shine.

 

I would say that whilst we have some very good players, a lot of them are ‘fair’ weather and are found looking for leaders on the pitch when things get hard. A good team can carry a couple of these during a match we though are trying to carry around seven. We lack a spine.

15 minutes ago, charierre said:

I would say that whilst we have some very good players, a lot of them are ‘fair’ weather and are found looking for leaders on the pitch when things get hard. A good team can carry a couple of these during a match we though are trying to carry around seven. We lack a spine.

This I agree with, unfortunately the JTs of this world don’t come around to often.

I suppose at this point we are suffering from lack of confidence which in turn would embolden people to make decisions.

52 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

Sorry but that is BS, we have some outstanding talent! It’s up to the manager to unlock that talent and allow it to shine.

 

We have an average goalkeeper. 1 world class defender, the rest are poor at best. Some decent workhorses in midfield that offer 0 creatively, and a forward line that plays like strangers. Mount being the exception.

 

We do not have "outstanding talent" mate, that would be your blue tinted glasses. Silva and Mount the only ones that would make Cities bench.

17 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

We have an average goalkeeper. 1 world class defender, the rest are poor at best. Some decent workhorses in midfield that offer 0 creatively, and a forward line that plays like strangers. Mount being the exception.

 

We do not have "outstanding talent" mate, that would be your blue tinted glasses. Silva and Mount the only ones that would make Cities bench.

You have your opinion I have mine.

5 minutes ago, Wearyourcolours said:

You have your opinion I have mine.

Fair enough 👍

Tedious to keep hearing this maybe, but there’s a lot of hyperbole on here regarding both TT and the quality of our squad. Squad has some weaknesses but is pretty good and has a lot of potential. This wasn’t clear in yesterday’s showing but nor was the performance nearly as bad as the dominant narrative suggests.
 

As for TT, he got things badly wrong yesterday and may not be a tactical genius but he’s at least a serious coach who has introduced structure that was plainly lacking. I know there are certain allegiances and I commend that loyalty, but SFL just isn’t a serious prospect yet when it comes to managing an elite football club. I wanted to believe it but my head told me otherwise.

I think the combo of TT and our current squad should be pushing for a top 4 spot probably this season (it may depend on whether or not Liverpool has some sort of resurgence), next season without a doubt. In CL, getting past atletico would be a nice bonus this season but next season I would expect to do better (obviously with some conditionality - e.g. if we end up challenging for the prem next season I would forgive a poor showing in the CL..)

if we don’t achieve something like the above, then I’m wrong - about TT, about our squad, or both. simples. 

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

We have an average goalkeeper. 1 world class defender, the rest are poor at best. Some decent workhorses in midfield that offer 0 creatively, and a forward line that plays like strangers. Mount being the exception.

 

We do not have "outstanding talent" mate, that would be your blue tinted glasses. Silva and Mount the only ones that would make Cities bench.

You aren't wrong 

However these world class players for City broadly became world class at city under Pep. 

So with a good coach, who knows what could be unlocked here. 

 

I'd say half and half, Man city already had world class players before Pep came. Although he did do wonders for other players who were prospects and he has brought in tremendous talent which he has nurtured. Let's not forget City have been the best team over the last decade qualifying for the ucl every single season for the last 10 years.

Speaking of Pep he was quoted saying to Roman before he went to City, our squad needed like 10 players minimum and Roman debunked him. Conte won the league with 3 new players in Kante, Alonso and Luiz (if I forgot anyone I apologise).

I find it funny how we signed 6 new first team players for a relatively new coach this season but wouldn't give Conte (a proven world class coach) the 2 or 3 he wanted after winning the league. The mind boggles and this isn't a dig at the board...we all know what they can be like but you have to wonder what goes through their mind? Yes youth is important but aren't they the ones the priorities this winning right now mentality?

If Thomas gets us top 4 and the Fa cup I think there is an argument to be had that he is a world class coach.

 

26 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I'd say half and half, Man city already had world class players before Pep came. Although he did do wonders for other players who were prospects and he has brought in tremendous talent which he has nurtured. Let's not forget City have been the best team over the last decade qualifying for the ucl every single season for the last 10 years.

Speaking of Pep he was quoted saying to Roman before he went to City, our squad needed like 10 players minimum and Roman debunked him. Conte won the league with 3 new players in Kante, Alonso and Luiz (if I forgot anyone I apologise).

I find it funny how we signed 6 new first team players for a relatively new coach this season but wouldn't give Conte (a proven world class coach) the 2 or 3 he wanted after winning the league. The mind boggles and this isn't a dig at the board...we all know what they can be like but you have to wonder what goes through their mind? Yes youth is important but aren't they the ones the priorities this winning right now mentality?

If Thomas gets us top 4 and the Fa cup I think there is an argument to be had that he is a world class coach.

 

Remember in Roman we have a ruthless owner, that knows nothing about football, his record proves that he doesn’t understand what it takes to build on the successes we’ve had.

Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte all gone far too soon.

I don’t think TT is in the world class coach category, probably in the level below that.

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

We have an average goalkeeper. 1 world class defender, the rest are poor at best. Some decent workhorses in midfield that offer 0 creatively, and a forward line that plays like strangers. Mount being the exception.

 

We do not have "outstanding talent" mate, that would be your blue tinted glasses. Silva and Mount the only ones that would make Cities bench.

I think it’s abit harsh to call Mendy an average goalkeeper, imo he’s a very good keeper who have transformed our defence this season.

I also refuse to believe Werner is this bad, he was one of the highest rated strikers around just a year ago. I think he will turn out to be a world class finisher eventually even though thats really hard to believe.

Pulisic also showed what he can do, he’s just so injury prone. Hudson Odoi has a lot of potential, I’d say our midfield has already reached its potential. Gilmour need to play more games really, we’re not going to see much improvement from Kovacic and Jorginho.

The defence I agree, we are pretty weak. Silva and Chilwell aside, it is poor for a team of our calibre.

Our team certainly can do better than this though.

1 hour ago, dansubrosa said:

I think it’s abit harsh to call Mendy an average goalkeeper, imo he’s a very good keeper who have transformed our defence this season.

I also refuse to believe Werner is this bad, he was one of the highest rated strikers around just a year ago. I think he will turn out to be a world class finisher eventually even though thats really hard to believe.

Pulisic also showed what he can do, he’s just so injury prone. Hudson Odoi has a lot of potential, I’d say our midfield has already reached its potential. Gilmour need to play more games really, we’re not going to see much improvement from Kovacic and Jorginho.

The defence I agree, we are pretty weak. Silva and Chilwell aside, it is poor for a team of our calibre.

Our team certainly can do better than this though.

On Mendy who do you blame out of him and Dave on yesterday's goal? Cause for me both of them going for the same move and leaving an open goal was appalling. 

Personally I think Mendy is being over hyped simply  because Kepa set the bar so very low.

4 hours ago, Dean said:

Tedious to keep hearing this maybe, but there’s a lot of hyperbole on here regarding both TT and the quality of our squad. Squad has some weaknesses but is pretty good and has a lot of potential. This wasn’t clear in yesterday’s showing but nor was the performance nearly as bad as the dominant narrative suggests.
 

As for TT, he got things badly wrong yesterday and may not be a tactical genius but he’s at least a serious coach who has introduced structure that was plainly lacking. I know there are certain allegiances and I commend that loyalty, but SFL just isn’t a serious prospect yet when it comes to managing an elite football club. I wanted to believe it but my head told me otherwise.

I think the combo of TT and our current squad should be pushing for a top 4 spot probably this season (it may depend on whether or not Liverpool has some sort of resurgence), next season without a doubt. In CL, getting past atletico would be a nice bonus this season but next season I would expect to do better (obviously with some conditionality - e.g. if we end up challenging for the prem next season I would forgive a poor showing in the CL..)

if we don’t achieve something like the above, then I’m wrong - about TT, about our squad, or both. simples. 

Well written Dean. Sadly think you will end up wrong.