Hopefully we don't just settle for more mercs coming here for the Todd's cash while we are out of the CL. That will just send us further down.

5 hours ago, bisright1 said:

Yeah of course Potter wins if we sacked him tomorrow. Because we'd look insane and he hadn't had time to put his mark on the club.

That's one of the reasons why we should give him time...

If he is here for 2 seasons and we still look sh*te and he signs 200m of players, who now everyone knows will have his blueprint on (as tuchel not wanting to be involved in transfers was a reason for his exit), then it will be clear he's the problem 

Also we lost to Brighton, arsenal and Newcastle, three settled teams who are playing well this season. We aren't getting relegated, we won't even finish bottom half. We are clearly the 6th or 7th best team right now and once other teams have their injuries, we can climb closer to 4th.

 

Really admire your optimism, how the hell is the current Chelsea a top 6 or 7 side? All the rest of the big 6s are better than us, Newcastle is better than us, Brighton is better than us, even Fulham and Brentford are better than us. If we play Leicester or Villa tomorrow, we'd likely to lose. Sure we will beat relegation, if that's the current standard.

Of course we can't sack Potter this season, the deal Boehly offered make him unsackable. It's not just we lost games, it's the manner we lost , the new standard and the reactions after them. When was the last time we get beat after a no-performance, and the manager came out and said they are so much better than us, we gave everything, please give me more time. It happened like 3 times in a week under the new management.

The Athletic sources, who need to maintain anonymous in order to protect their jobs, have made it clear the club’s new owners’ support for Potter and the long-term project they share is unwavering.

Indeed, this was communicated to the Englishman just a few days ago. Before anyone misconstrues this, it should not be mistaken for a vote of confidence.

The phrase which has often been used when a manager on the verge of the sack gets rather unconvincing public backing from the hierarchy only to depart soon enough.

(@SJohnsonSport & @TheAthletic)

Chelsea’s ownership has communicated support to Potter in recent days, Injuries are being taken into account. More than one source close to the senior players said how much they “Loved Potter” although this was before the downturn in results. (@SJohnsonSport) #CFC

The consortium also felt Potter was more willing to give youth and home grown talent a chance than Tuchel. 
 

Chelsea’s owners wanted a champions league run and in this regard Potter has delivered, taking Chelsea into the last 16 after picking up 1 point from the opening 2 games.

5 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Also, all of this "Chelsea need patience" talk is doing my head in. What should we be patient about exactly? watching our team get dragged to mid table playing relegation football? for what purpose? Are people really so deluded that they think we can just finish mid table and everything will work itself out?

I think the idea is that you're supposed to be patient about a new direction that the club is taking. Similar to how Arsenal fans were supposed (but obviously wasn't) to be patient about Arteta, how City fans were supposed to be patient with Pep, Liverpool fans with Klopp etc. Often when you have a long-term plan, there's problems and poor results before you start reaping the rewards.

Obviously no one expects you to be patient so it will be up to the Chelsea board & staff to provide that part. Same as in most big clubs. Not long ago most Arsenal fans wanted Arteta out, but the people in charge kept him. Same with United and SAF in the late 80s.

18 minutes ago, JM7 said:

The Athletic sources, who need to maintain anonymous in order to protect their jobs, have made it clear the club’s new owners’ support for Potter and the long-term project they share is unwavering.

Indeed, this was communicated to the Englishman just a few days ago. Before anyone misconstrues this, it should not be mistaken for a vote of confidence.

The phrase which has often been used when a manager on the verge of the sack gets rather unconvincing public backing from the hierarchy only to depart soon enough.

(@SJohnsonSport & @TheAthletic)

Yup whether the fan base like it or not he's currently untouchable 

Also can people stop comparing Potter to Arteta, Pep and Klopp as an excuse for giving him time. I wanted to believe Arteta was a fraud because who wants to admit Arsenal might finally have another good manager. Make no mistake though Arteta played under Wenger and was Pep's number 2. He's literally learnt from 2 of the best managers of all time. 

To say Potter needs time because he could turn into our version of Arteta is beyond reaching. They couldn't be more different, one was a good player in the prem who knows his club in and out. The other didn't play in the prem and started his managerial career through a less traditional route. 

This isn't to say Potter doesn't deserve time, but some of the excuses given for him just aren't based on logical conclusions..... key word 'some'. Then for some to compare him to Pep or Klopp if given time is just ludicrous. For one I've never seen a Klopp or Pep side play the way we did vs the toons. When Pep turns round and tells us to stick with Potter and I see performances like that my eyebrow raises higher than Anceolotti's.

4 hours ago, bisright1 said:

We are literally tied for 7th now and 8 points off 4th. I think deluded is a bit of a stretch. 

11 points in 8 games since Potter took over, that's mid table form. Not to mention we were fortunate to get results against United and Aston Villa.

The club is too big for him. It's that simple.

21 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Also can people stop comparing Potter to Arteta, Pep and Klopp as an excuse for giving him time. I wanted to believe Arteta was a fraud because who wants to admit Arsenal might finally have another good manager. Make no mistake though Arteta played under Wenger and was Pep's number 2. He's literally learnt from 2 of the best managers of all time. 

To say Potter needs time because he could turn into our version of Arteta is beyond reaching. They couldn't be more different, one was a good player in the prem who knows his club in and out. The other didn't play in the prem and started his managerial career through a less traditional route. 

This isn't to say Potter doesn't deserve time, but some of the excuses given for him just aren't based on logical conclusions..... key word 'some'. Then for some to compare him to Pep or Klopp if given time is just ludicrous. For one I've never seen a Klopp or Pep side play the way we did vs the toons. When Pep turns round and tells us to stick with Potter and I see performances like that my eyebrow raises higher than Anceolotti's.

Another big difference is Potter has 10+ years of managerial experience, Arteta was just starting out at the time. Potter's has a similar amount of managerial experience as Tuchel, with little to show for it. It's unlikely he's suddenly going to become an elite tactican in 2-3 years

23 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Also can people stop comparing Potter to Arteta, Pep and Klopp as an excuse for giving him time. I wanted to believe Arteta was a fraud because who wants to admit Arsenal might finally have another good manager. Make no mistake though Arteta played under Wenger and was Pep's number 2. He's literally learnt from 2 of the best managers of all time. 

To say Potter needs time because he could turn into our version of Arteta is beyond reaching. They couldn't be more different, one was a good player in the prem who knows his club in and out. The other didn't play in the prem and started his managerial career through a less traditional route. 

This isn't to say Potter doesn't deserve time, but some of the excuses given for him just aren't based on logical conclusions..... key word 'some'. Then for some to compare him to Pep or Klopp if given time is just ludicrous. For one I've never seen a Klopp or Pep side play the way we did vs the toons. When Pep turns round and tells us to stick with Potter and I see performances like that my eyebrow raises higher than Anceolotti's.

I'd give him January, if we've drifted off into mid table by the end of Jan then his postion should really be untenable

My concern is the players aren’t playing for him. They’re half hearted performances and not seeing enough from GP to address it. 
 

I thought it would be a season of two halves for us, and was optimistic about the post World Cup period. Based on the regression we’ve witnessed I’m less optimistic now. 
 

this club has a nasty habit of doing the absolute minimum to succeed now (since 2015 ish) and I find it increasingly hard to watch. 

What I don't understand is why no matter which coach comes in, since Conte/Mourinho days the attack is so stagnant. Like there's so few options for the player on the ball. When players do make good off the ball runs they're rarely spotted.

It came out after TT left that apparently he instructed them to hold onto the ball and not make risky passes, keep to the passing circuits etc. Believable yet I find it hard to balance that with what my eyes showed me. Which was TT regularly encouraging them to release the ball forwards quicker, thus executing the exact same type of passes he supposedly told them not to do. 

Regardless Sarri, Lamps, TT and now GP have all found it hard to get consistent fluid attacking football with clinical finishing from this team. Yes the players are the common denominator, but there has to be more to it.

The backwards passing vs Newcastle was truly a new low in terms of our all around general play. I'd rather sit through 9000 minutes of opposing fans chanting boring boring Chelsea whilst Jose parks the bus at 1-0 than witness us play it back to Mendy and recycle then hoof the ball to no one and reset to do the same thing.

The players are certainly responsible for some of the performances, but by now 10 games into Potter's tenure I still don't know what he wants to do. He's hiding behind TT's system and as an inferior coach he's demonstrating all the flaws it had under TT without providing any of the benefits. Injuries do play a big factor, but what's the point in sacking a manager for the next one to just pick up where they left off and play the exact same system but, worse?

Back 3, back 4 switching between the two in game, it feels all very contemporary progressive football until it isn't. I see the intention from Graham, but a lack of execution. If my hunch is right Boehly will give him Ronaldo in January and then we will see the real reason TT was sacked. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but the pieces are falling into place. 

13 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

What I don't understand is why no matter which coach comes in, since Conte/Mourinho days the attack is so stagnant. Like there's so few options for the player on the ball. When players do make good off the ball runs they're rarely spotted.

It came out after TT left that apparently he instructed them to hold onto the ball and not make risky passes, keep to the passing circuits etc. Believable yet I find it hard to balance that with what my eyes showed me. Which was TT regularly encouraging them to release the ball forwards quicker, thus executing the exact same type of passes he supposedly told them not to do. 

Regardless Sarri, Lamps, TT and now GP have all found it hard to get consistent fluid attacking football with clinical finishing from this team. Yes the players are the common denominator, but there has to be more to it.

The backwards passing vs Newcastle was truly a new low in terms of our all around general play. I'd rather sit through 9000 minutes of opposing fans chanting boring boring Chelsea whilst Jose parks the bus at 1-0 than witness us play it back to Mendy and recycle then hoof the ball to no one and reset to do the same thing.

The players are certainly responsible for some of the performances, but by now 10 games into Potter's tenure I still don't know what he wants to do. He's hiding behind TT's system and as an inferior coach he's demonstrating all the flaws it had under TT without providing any of the benefits. Injuries do play a big factor, but what's the point in sacking a manager for the next one to just pick up where they left off and play the exact same system but, worse?

Back 3, back 4 switching between the two in game, it feels all very contemporary progressive football until it isn't. I see the intention from Graham, but a lack of execution. If my hunch is right Boehly will give him Ronaldo in January and then we will see the real reason TT was sacked. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but the pieces are falling into place. 

It's a creativity issue mostly. Our attackers aren't really creative players at all. Hudson Odoi before his injury last season was far ahead of the rest of our attackers in chances created per 90. 

 

The other issue is movement, Timo Werner and Sterling are the only players that really make runs in behind the defense. We've sold Werner and Sterling now plays LWB thanks to Potter's tactical genius.

 

Selling Werner was a huge mistake though, despite his finishing his runs would massively disrupt opposition defensess. He got 22 goal contributions in his first season I think. The 2nd season was poor but he wasn't being played much, we look toothless without him in the front 3. 

 

Pulsic, Ziyech Mount and Havertz are some of the most bang average attackers we've had in recent years, they wouldn't get near the starting 11 of any other top 6 side. They really should be squad players at best, we should really be looking to sell Pulisic and Ziyech as soon as we can get someone decent.

18 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

What I don't understand is why no matter which coach comes in, since Conte/Mourinho days the attack is so stagnant. Like there's so few options for the player on the ball. When players do make good off the ball runs they're rarely spotted.

It came out after TT left that apparently he instructed them to hold onto the ball and not make risky passes, keep to the passing circuits etc. Believable yet I find it hard to balance that with what my eyes showed me. Which was TT regularly encouraging them to release the ball forwards quicker, thus executing the exact same type of passes he supposedly told them not to do. 

Regardless Sarri, Lamps, TT and now GP have all found it hard to get consistent fluid attacking football with clinical finishing from this team. Yes the players are the common denominator, but there has to be more to it.

The backwards passing vs Newcastle was truly a new low in terms of our all around general play. I'd rather sit through 9000 minutes of opposing fans chanting boring boring Chelsea whilst Jose parks the bus at 1-0 than witness us play it back to Mendy and recycle then hoof the ball to no one and reset to do the same thing.

The players are certainly responsible for some of the performances, but by now 10 games into Potter's tenure I still don't know what he wants to do. He's hiding behind TT's system and as an inferior coach he's demonstrating all the flaws it had under TT without providing any of the benefits. Injuries do play a big factor, but what's the point in sacking a manager for the next one to just pick up where they left off and play the exact same system but, worse?

Back 3, back 4 switching between the two in game, it feels all very contemporary progressive football until it isn't. I see the intention from Graham, but a lack of execution. If my hunch is right Boehly will give him Ronaldo in January and then we will see the real reason TT was sacked. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but the pieces are falling into place. 

Sadly, it's because the team hasn't had an identity since Mourinho/Conte so rather than buying a striker that fits a specific structure, they just throw money at the hottest striker and hopes it sticks. The fact that we moved through Morata, Giroud, Werner, and Lukaku (all different kinds of strikers) shows that whoever was in charge of recruitment was just getting different strikers to see which one stuck. With Mourinho and Conte we always knew what their best eleven was and/or what to expect when the players went on the field. It was no surprise that when we signed Costa, it was like a match made in heaven. We haven't had that with our last few mangers who just chop and change and hope something works so there is no identity to actually build around a striker. Tuchel at least built a bit o an identity in his first few months as manager, but it all fell away in his last few months.

And the managers aren't solely to blame for the club not having an identity. I think the club has been lacking an identity from the top since Emenalo left the club and the sporting director position has been empty.

33 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

It's a creativity issue mostly. Our attackers aren't really creative players at all. Hudson Odoi before his injury last season was far ahead of the rest of our attackers in chances created per 90. 

 

The other issue is movement, Timo Werner and Sterling are the only players that really make runs in behind the defense. We've sold Werner and Sterling now plays LWB thanks to Potter's tactical genius.

 

Selling Werner was a huge mistake though, despite his finishing his runs would massively disrupt opposition defensess. He got 22 goal contributions in his first season I think. The 2nd season was poor but he wasn't being played much, we look toothless without him in the front 3. 

 

Pulsic, Ziyech Mount and Havertz are some of the most bang average attackers we've had in recent years, they wouldn't get near the starting 11 of any other top 6 side. They really should be squad players at best, we should really be looking to sell Pulisic and Ziyech as soon as we can get someone decent.

I was hoping Timo would go on loan, the fact he was sold was a shame. He didn't really suit the league, but no doubt you've hit the hammer on the head his pace and movement was crucial to our playstyle. Also his chemistry with Mount and Havertz for example highly underrated these guys knew each other well.

We dropped the ball imo last season, TT rightly so at the time didn't trust Timo to lead the line for a title challenge. Yet had he stuck with him I think he would have improved on his first season. Rather he rarely played, but when he finally got some form he got injured and then weirdly again didn't get much game time for the rest of the season. Then randomly pops up with a great goal vs Madrid and you think this is his redemption. Then him and TT fall out in pre season and that's it we don't even get to give him a proper goodbye. 

Had we kept together the ucl winning squad I think we're title challengers this season. Instead we lost Rudi, Christensen, Alonso, Emerson, Tomori, Giroud, Abraham, Zouma, Werner, CHO (although on loan) and ofc Thomas. Some of those names don't get me wrong like Zouma and perhaps Emerson to a lesser extent aren't big misses. Some of the others though are massive. 

I had expected TT and Potter to an extent to approach the team this season the same way. To have as many champions league winning players on the field at the same time as possible. I don't know why TT doesn't rate Pulisic but I think had he given him more mins.

So many errors and mistakes from the board, I can understand why Boehly wanted rid of them, but he then goes and makes similar mistakes. You have to laugh because if you don't well....you get the idea.

                                   

                     

 

 

Edited November 14, 20223 yr by LongtimerLurker

4 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

When Pep turns round and tells us to stick with Potter and I see performances like that my eyebrow raises higher than Anceolotti's.

Pep has been sucking off any manager with a pulse ever since he arrived on these shores.

He did this with Klopp last year during a match that would decide who had control of the title race going into the last few games.

https://youtube.com/shorts/pmtgEYHVfxg?feature=share

Every manager deserve some time because you can't implement your idea overnight. 

However, giving any manager season after season to develop ideas are nonsense. You can give potter or even tuchel 100 seasons with this team and we will still be sh$t. 

If you have watched city n pool play in klopp or pep 1st season, you can understand how they want to play and more importantly understand what player do they need to improve that team. With city, it was so obvious in order to play high line, they needed more athletic fb. The next season they signed 3 fb and they were pl winner.

Right now with potter preference for chameleon football, it is very difficult to see what we need. Does he want to play back 4 or back 5? Do we need winger? Do we need ball winner? Do we need creator? Does he want sterling to play as winger or st? 

It feel like we need 24 new player. 

 

Well, I think it's fair to say no one is particularly surprised with what's going on right now. Some of us wouldn't have said it out loud but this is what we've been afraid of for years now. Looming over us, it was inevitable at some point. Boehly taking over just made it come quicker...

The point is the club clearly isn't going in the right direction, which is nothing new. The most obvious piece of evidence is the fact we haven't been nowhere near the title race for six seasons straight, and seven in last eight!? After CL win I thought we finally had a good foundation to build on, but instead we made same mistakes again, especially when it comes to recruitment.

Look at Man City and Liverpool for example, not a single of their signings in the past few years was considered a "flop". Yet we manage to break a record for spending most money in a single window without a glimpse of a good transfer, simply because we overpay players who don't fit our style of play. That core group of CL winners certainly needed reinforcements, and of course our picks were like Boehly is playing a game of Football Manager.

So there is no point in blaming it on Potter, Tuchel, or any other manager. Everyone since Mourinho had left faced the same problems. Every now and then they come to surface and last time it happened Tuchel came in and won us the CL. Which also proves we are a cup team for some time, whether we would like to admit it or not.

The idea of "building a legacy" with a manager (in this case Potter) has never worked for us, neither it's going to work this time around. What we need is a major change of our transfer policy (if one exists) which I don't expect to happen but if it goes on like this someone will have to at least think about it. We need a clear and realistic plan. Then we can talk about patience and sticking with a manager. 

Edited November 14, 20223 yr by wizardous

I haven't read back on this thread, so please forgive me, if some of this is repetitive, but my take on Potter is that we must give him time. Accept, we will win nothing this season, (it has been happening to Arsenal and Spurs for decades!) Stick with the Club, as the real fans always have done, ignore the Plastics and get behind Potter and the boys. Now, I am not advocating support with no return. The Players and Management must try harder, there must be structure, effort, passion, a willingness to fight for the shirt and currently these are ALL missing!  Potter must be given at least TWO windows where he has the option to get rid of as many of this failing squad as he chooses. At Brighton, their scouting and recruitment team did a superb job, but it took 2-3 years and as most, if not all of these chaps are now at Chelsea, we must give them time to work their magic. Then once Potter has a squad/side that he has chosen and has confidence in, give him TWO full seasons.  So yes, this means I am recommending giving him maybe three years to turn this around. Most of the Chelsea Twitterati wouldn't give him another three weeks, but that is the difference, like my Brother Nibs, we have been at the Bridge with 8000 others watching Scarborough, Oxford United, York City and others and 50 years later we are still here, because ultimately it is nice to win trophies, but Chelsea FC will ALWAYS be a Club with ups and downs, it's just that many of our Fans now, haven't lived long enough to have seen this. 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Every manager deserve some time because you can't implement your idea overnight. 

However, giving any manager season after season to develop ideas are nonsense. You can give potter or even tuchel 100 seasons with this team and we will still be sh$t. 

If you have watched city n pool play in klopp or pep 1st season, you can understand how they want to play and more importantly understand what player do they need to improve that team. With city, it was so obvious in order to play high line, they needed more athletic fb. The next season they signed 3 fb and they were pl winner.

Right now with potter preference for chameleon football, it is very difficult to see what we need. Does he want to play back 4 or back 5? Do we need winger? Do we need ball winner? Do we need creator? Does he want sterling to play as winger or st? 

It feel like we need 24 new player. 

 

Bob, I don't think its 24 new players, but it will be at least a dozen 😉

44 minutes ago, coombsie said:

Bob, I don't think its 24 new players, but it will be at least a dozen 😉

I want to know what potter vision for this team. 

3 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I want to know what potter vision for this team. 

Agreed Bob, all we have heard from GP is the "the boys gave everything" line.  The Team needs an identity, a purpose,  a DNA. To be fair, with the huge number of injuries, he will have had to continually change his plans, tactics, set-up etc, so let's get everybody fit and then see if GP can produce a cohesive line-up.

Tuchel was sacked because he didn't want to be involved with recruitment and other non-coaching roles.

Over the next six weeks we need Potter doing what he was brought in for, along with Macaulay and the backroom, they should be working overtime, trying to identify and build an extensive list of players that the club can go after in the next two windows.

TB should be lay by a pool. sipping cocktails, with his phone turned off when they are doing this, we don't need him involved at all, just leave your cheque book at SB and sod off.

 

 

24 minutes ago, coombsie said:

Agreed Bob, all we have heard from GP is the "the boys gave everything" line.  The Team needs an identity, a purpose,  a DNA. To be fair, with the huge number of injuries, he will have had to continually change his plans, tactics, set-up etc, so let's get everybody fit and then see if GP can produce a cohesive line-up.

Agree, that is why I said you need to give potter until the end of this season to show us his plan.