On 18/11/2022 at 09:51, Frankie8Lampard said:

I think people are a bit confused. Brighton staff aren't coming because Todd wants to turn us into Brighton, they are coming because Potter is the manager, and he is obviously having a say in the senior staff decisions. If we hired Simone, no doubt there probably would have been a few Atletico staff coming here. 

When City's stock was rising, they took Barcelona's management team + Pep. We on the other hand took Brighton's. 

Personally, I would've been ok with Atletico's management team, they have a knack for uncovering forwards with potential

2 hours ago, Deino said:

Personally, I would've been ok with Atletico's management team, they have a knack for uncovering forwards with potential

Maybe back in the day but their recent record with forwards is even worse than ours.

2 hours ago, Deino said:

When City's stock was rising, they took Barcelona's management team + Pep. We on the other hand took Brighton's. 

Personally, I would've been ok with Atletico's management team, they have a knack for uncovering forwards with potential

But that's the point, City hiring Barcelona's team was all part of the plan to bring Pep in. I think the idea from Boehly and co isn't just to look for the best but for the manager to be involved in who is being hired. Bringing in Ateltico's team without Potter's input completely goes against the reason why Tuchel and Boehly didn't work. If Boehly and Clearlake didn't care about what the manager's opinion in the backroom staff, they probably would have gone on with Tuchel who didn't want to be involved in the process.

Also, there are a lot of things to criticize Boehly and/or Potter on but I really don't see the problem with Bringing in people like Vivell, promoting Neil Bath, and hiring other people from Brighton most likely recommended by Potter? IMO it seems like a nice blend of someone already at Chelsea, a European scout familiar with world recruitment and a few recommended by the manager.  It's not as if our recruitment team since Emenalo left has done any better. We've wasted over 400mil in signings over the past 7 years and the only one of them that has been good is an ageing player that came on free transfer. Clearly there's a problem and it's nice to see a new approach.

Edited November 19, 20223 yr by Frankie8Lampard

11 hours ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

But that's the point, City hiring Barcelona's team was all part of the plan to bring Pep in. I think the idea from Boehly and co isn't just to look for the best but for the manager to be involved in who is being hired. Bringing in Ateltico's team without Potter's input completely goes against the reason why Tuchel and Boehly didn't work. If Boehly and Clearlake didn't care about what the manager's opinion in the backroom staff, they probably would have gone on with Tuchel who didn't want to be involved in the process.

Also, there are a lot of things to criticize Boehly and/or Potter on but I really don't see the problem with Bringing in people like Vivell, promoting Neil Bath, and hiring other people from Brighton most likely recommended by Potter? IMO it seems like a nice blend of someone already at Chelsea, a European scout familiar with world recruitment and a few recommended by the manager.  It's not as if our recruitment team since Emenalo left has done any better. We've wasted over 400mil in signings over the past 7 years and the only one of them that has been good is an ageing player that came on free transfer. Clearly there's a problem and it's nice to see a new approach.

I agree with that take. What I find hard to believe is we're bringing in Brighton's management staff hoping to elevate our club. 

I used City hiring Barca's top execs as an example because City wanted to compete at the very top level hence they brought in the best management execs (that helped to create one of the best teams in Barca's legacy) to prove that point. These are people who have been there and done it. 

Our club on the other hand are bringing in a group of execs that have never constructed a winning team, forget 2 years, it may take us 5 years before this project come together and even then we may still be years behind City's development even if Pep leaves. 

Potter fans better hope he can get it together before City/Barca/Bayern/Real comes in for our best players

12 hours ago, Argo said:

Maybe back in the day but their recent record with forwards is even worse than ours.

Fair point

Problem is that ‘Barca’s top execs’ in creating a wonderful team also created something which was unsustainable in high transfers, wage structure and culture. Something which has now almost collapsed the club.

it’s ok for City to take this on as money and finance is not a problem atm as the dance their way around any FFP restrictions.

We on the other hand we do not have that luxury and have to find a solution somewhere in between Brighton and City.

Edited November 20, 20223 yr by goose

1 hour ago, goose said:

Problem is that ‘Barca’s top execs’ in creating a wonderful team also created something which was unsustainable in high transfers, wage structure and culture. Something which has now almost collapsed the club.

it’s ok for City to take this on as money and finance is not a problem atm as the dance their way around any FFP restrictions.

We on the other hand we do not have that luxury and have to find a solution somewhere in between Brighton and City.

Txiki Begiristain, I'd say the most crucial figure to hire, left for City late 2012. Pretty sure Barca's spening spree and downright ridiculous wage structure came afterwards. Roughly around the time PSG snatched Neymar from them. Who was also signed after Txiki left.

11 hours ago, goose said:

Problem is that ‘Barca’s top execs’ in creating a wonderful team also created something which was unsustainable in high transfers, wage structure and culture. Something which has now almost collapsed the club.

it’s ok for City to take this on as money and finance is not a problem atm as the dance their way around any FFP restrictions.

We on the other hand we do not have that luxury and have to find a solution somewhere in between Brighton and City.

The execs that Barca had during their 2015-20 downfall aren't the same ones as Txiki.

Most people blame their situation on the president at the time, Bartomeu. Personally I think Barca nearly collapsed because they moved away from relying on their incredible academy La Masia and tried to do the Real Madrid Galacticos strategy instead. Even this season they cooked the books to splash out on superstarts, and subsequently got knocked out of the CL.

13 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

The execs that Barca had during their 2015-20 downfall aren't the same ones as Txiki.

Most people blame their situation on the president at the time, Bartomeu. Personally I think Barca nearly collapsed because they moved away from relying on their incredible academy La Masia and tried to do the Real Madrid Galacticos strategy instead. Even this season they cooked the books to splash out on superstarts, and subsequently got knocked out of the CL.

When I think back to Xaxi, Iniesta, Puyol and Pique these were generational players competing at the top of their game not easy to bring through academy players into that environment. Looks to me like after a lot of the golden generation moved on the quality was not there to replace them.

There are echoes of us with Lampard, Drogba and Terry though we have handled it better, yet we were not in a two-headed quasi political tournament. 

2 hours ago, strider6004 said:

When I think back to Xaxi, Iniesta, Puyol and Pique these were generational players competing at the top of their game not easy to bring through academy players into that environment. Looks to me like after a lot of the golden generation moved on the quality was not there to replace them.

There are echoes of us with Lampard, Drogba and Terry though we have handled it better, yet we were not in a two-headed quasi political tournament. 

While true of course it is always something extremely difficult and without guarantees to succeed but I say they had a couple of unfortunate events that weren't really in their hands while at the same time losing the plot and starting to make nonsensical decisions. IMO the first real ultra unfortunate event was the illness and death of Tito. He was meant to be Peps successor but lasted about .. a year as a coach?

Into that timeframe (severe illness) fell also the "legendary" 2:8 against Bayern which was closer in reality as the result implies but made them lose their status as invulnerable (players of course knew at that time that their head coach was in dying in NYC which I think played its part). The remontada later on with heavy influence of the ref in favour of Paris (doesn't matter if you say they deserved it because of Ovebro) and of course PSG snatching Neymar right under their noses away. This was a crucial moment because a) Neymar was incredible important to them and could have easily their anchor while an aged Messi wouldn't be able to keep them on track on his own. b) The money they then received wasn't really helping them either because in their frenzy made grave mistakes and were also unlucky. Dembélé being injured most of the times and Coutinho, a world class player at that time, didn't work out at all. They never got back on track after that and the increasing financial instability just made it worse of course.  

 

Btw. at that time (after Enrique stepped back) I think they made a strategic mistake to not get Tuchel who went on the be successful at PSG. Valverde really was the nail into the coffin because he did keep them somewhat successful enough to stay a bit longer (ultimately failed) but they started to play extremely stale and pragmatic without developing any further.

Edited November 21, 20223 yr by weetee

Well would you look at that, Sterling actually plays better in his actual position instead of LWB, who would've thought.

 

When you make Gareth Southgate look like a good tactician something is seriously wrong.

Edited November 21, 20223 yr by Drogba1

Players look better in WC than Chelsea, although Mendy brought his Chelsea gloves with him flapping at another cross.  

2 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Well would you look at that, Sterling actually plays better in his actual position instead of LWB, who would've thought.

 

When you make Gareth Southgate look like a good tactician something is seriously wrong.

Yes, he swatted the mighty Iran aside like they were league-one quality.

27 minutes ago, Chelsc96 said:

Yes, he swatted the mighty Iran aside like they were league-one quality.

Must admit my first tendency was to wonder why everyone is going over board about a decent result against "Iran" ... and I was surprised to find out they are ranked #22 in the FIFA rankings, ahead of the likes of Poland, Czech Republic, Nigeria, ROI, Scotland etc etc. Mind you the operative word in that is probably "FIFA" ... rankings probably as dodgy as their World Cup selection process and VAR teams ... 

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Must admit my first tendency was to wonder why everyone is going over board about a decent result against "Iran" ... and I was surprised to find out they are ranked #22 in the FIFA rankings, ahead of the likes of Poland, Czech Republic, Nigeria, ROI, Scotland etc etc. Mind you the operative word in that is probably "FIFA" ... rankings probably as dodgy as their World Cup selection process and VAR teams ... 

They're a decent defensive side with the capacity of frustrate you. I'm very critical of Southgate but today was a job well done.

Their manager Queiroz was by many accounts the main reason United were so good defensively in the Ferdinand/Vidic era.

54 minutes ago, Chelsc96 said:

Yes, he swatted the mighty Iran aside like they were league-one quality.

Carried England during Euro 2020, City's highest scorer under Guardiola........then gets played LWB by our tactical genius and looks awful

Have to admit after seeing that I'd like to see Chelsea play a 4231 again, Mount looks so much better as a CAM as well.

25 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Must admit my first tendency was to wonder why everyone is going over board about a decent result against "Iran" ... and I was surprised to find out they are ranked #22 in the FIFA rankings, ahead of the likes of Poland, Czech Republic, Nigeria, ROI, Scotland etc etc. Mind you the operative word in that is probably "FIFA" ... rankings probably as dodgy as their World Cup selection process and VAR teams ... 

They beat Uruguay and drew with Senegal just 2 months ago, they're not great but they're hardly San Marino

2 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Have to admit after seeing that I'd like to see Chelsea play a 4231 again, Mount looks so much better as a CAM as well.

I do think that Mount should be in the starting lineup for England, but I'll wait till Southgate has had the match vs USA or maybe the first knockout match, maybe he only put Mount as the starter right now due to the opponent being the weakest team in the group on paper and is actually going to use him as a sub later on.

If that's not the case then full respect for Southgate. That starting lineup, mainly in the context of Mount, being Sterling-Mount-Saka is on paper really strong and all three of them fit together perfectly.

20 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I do think that Mount should be in the starting lineup for England, but I'll wait till Southgate has had the match vs USA or maybe the first knockout match, maybe he only put Mount as the starter right now due to the opponent being the weakest team in the group on paper and is actually going to use him as a sub later on.

If that's not the case then full respect for Southgate. That starting lineup, mainly in the context of Mount, being Sterling-Mount-Saka is on paper really strong and all three of them fit together perfectly.

We have 2 of those 3 as well. We should try Sterling-Mount-Hutchinson.

As much as I dislike his attitude and performances at Chelsea, Pulisic actually looks half decent as well in the national team

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

I do think that Mount should be in the starting lineup for England, but I'll wait till Southgate has had the match vs USA or maybe the first knockout match, maybe he only put Mount as the starter right now due to the opponent being the weakest team in the group on paper and is actually going to use him as a sub later on.

If that's not the case then full respect for Southgate. That starting lineup, mainly in the context of Mount, being Sterling-Mount-Saka is on paper really strong and all three of them fit together perfectly.

We looked far better before mount et al came off. None of the other pretty boys are interested in defending.

2 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

We have 2 of those 3 as well. We should try Sterling-Mount-Hutchinson.

I’ve never seen a team play with three wing backs though - will be fun! 

5 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

As much as I dislike his attitude and performances at Chelsea, Pulisic actually looks half decent as well in the national team

Most of our players suddenly turn good when they play on their national teams unfortunately. Been like that for the past 3 seasons.

16 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Well would you look at that, Sterling actually plays better in his actual position instead of LWB, who would've thought.

 

When you make Gareth Southgate look like a good tactician something is seriously wrong.

Interesting that you hate seeing players played out of position.....you must have really disliked Tuchel then....

I am left questioning tonight why Canada coach John Herdman can talk about how he talked to his side in to going at a vastly superior opponent, believing they could beat them and sh*t finishing the only thing that stopped them doing so, when they had no right to believe that. Yet Graham Potter talks like we are little Chelsea and lucky to be able to share the pitch with Newcastle, Arsenal and City...