9 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Weird comparison - who do you think did "Carrick's role" before Michael Carrick?

Fernandes is a good player but he is not immune to criticism. He needs to do a lot more defensive work, whether he is playing as a DM or not. Modern midfield legends like Modric, Kroos, Xavi, Iniesta never shied away from the tackle or getting their pressing hands dirty. Enzo was such a talent in the World Cup because he provided graft as well as class, and if he loses the former he will  never be the player he can be.

So I'm personally not a fan of Enzo being the one responsible to be that deep seated midfielder who covers ground and anticipates the attacking threats. As great as Enzo is on the ball and despite him winning the young player of the tournament, he was the most dribbled past player at the world cup. Even when we signed him I was cautious of how Potter would use him and to his credit he did well under him. 

Of course he can improve his defensive game but I genuinely think he's wasted until he's offered more freedom in midfield when he's playing alongside a defensive minded aggressor in say a Rice or Caicedo. 

 

 

20 hours ago, Zeta said:

Almost certainly. He's a world-cup winners with the world at his feet, and he's now going on 7 game losing runs and not even finishing top half of the league. Him and Mudryk I suspect would very much like to undo their decisions.

I doubt he regret joining us perse (one swallow doesn't make a summer, Nkunku still isn't pulling out despite this season) but he probably wishes he took a 'Gusto' esque deal so not to be associated with this season, heck even I kind of wish he did now, he really didn't deserve Lampard ball.

He's a world class player, one of the very few of such talent that we have. Yet without a proper manager, it's not much he can do against any well drilled PL team. Since Tuchel left we haven't had a proper tactic, Potter and Lampard are simply bad managers.

We lost 12 PL matches since Tuchel left, which is more than the amount of PL matches we lost under Tuchel and he was in charge for a lot more time and matches played.

So I don't buy this whole narrative that Enzo is bad defensively at all, there is not a single player that looks good defensively right now, what has Chilwell done defensively well, nothing! He was just watching Odegaard gliding through our defense and  not even T.Silva is playing well defensively so that alone speaks volumes of how low level of tactics and preparation is being done.

There is nobody to pass to forward and there is nobody that can keep possession in the opposition's half, that alone would make even some of the best players ever pretty useless. And please let's not talk about having a need of Rice, he's simply overrated and West Ham is doing worse than us which is basically abysmal.

 

Edited May 4, 20233 yr by Gol15

Yeah Enzo is really bad defensively, and Madueke is really bad at goalkeeping, and Azpilicueta is really bad at finishing.

Well, i guess these things can happen if you put players in the wrong position.

Dont think it's worthwhile singling him out, but he needs to do better defensively. It's not just the one-off game, seeing the same pattern of him getting pulled apart for a while now. The 100M+ plus we paid was the price we paid to get him in a once in a decade opportunity, in reality he needs a couple of good reasons to be worth that price tag. Again, that's not his fault. On paper, Kante and Enzo looked like a partnership in fantasy football, with a good manager and Kante staying we should have good time ahead next season.

10 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

So I'm personally not a fan of Enzo being the one responsible to be that deep seated midfielder who covers ground and anticipates the attacking threats. As great as Enzo is on the ball and despite him winning the young player of the tournament, he was the most dribbled past player at the world cup. Even when we signed him I was cautious of how Potter would use him and to his credit he did well under him. 

Of course he can improve his defensive game but I genuinely think he's wasted until he's offered more freedom in midfield when he's playing alongside a defensive minded aggressor in say a Rice or Caicedo. 

 

 

Yeah, I agree with this. In terms of his defensive game he is a much better player when he goes hunting and pressing for the ball rather than playing positionally - which unfortunately is the same as Kante, Kovacic, Zakaria and Loftus-Cheek of course. 

By moving him into a more progressive role, Sarri may have sown the seeds to transform Kante into one of the best players in the world but damn it has cost us tactically since then.

Edited May 4, 20233 yr by SydneyChelsea

4 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Yeah, I agree with this. In terms of his defensive game he is a much better player when he goes hunting and pressing for the ball rather than playing positionally - which unfortunately is the same as Kante, Kovacic, Zakaria and Loftus-Cheek of course. 

By moving him into a more progressive role, Sarri may have sown the seeds to transform Kante into one of the best players in the world but damn it has cost us tactically since then.

In double pivot, you have to be able to do both.

If we put Enzo as one of the wide midfielder in mid 3,he need to be able to help our fb against winger but enzo double team defense against Mitoma was total disaster (puli defense didn't help but Enzo was very bad). 

 

12 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

In double pivot, you have to be able to do both.

If we put Enzo as one of the wide midfielder in mid 3,he need to be able to help our fb against winger but enzo double team defense against Mitoma was total disaster (puli defense didn't help but Enzo was very bad). 

 

I would hope that's something he improves on over the years then, because he doesn't have the pace to play further forward (eg Fabregas or Iniesta when they were younger).

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I would hope that's something he improves on over the years then, because he doesn't have the pace to play further forward (eg Fabregas or Iniesta when they were younger).

Agree, for me the idea that your midfield cannot defend and it is not problem sounds crazy but it has been our reality for years now. 

This is why I like lamp as this caretaker stuff. He doesn't play a very structured system. It force player to take responsibility. Winger need to defend, good. Midfielder need to defend, good. 

Many fans will judge you. Tacticos will write 5000 thread of why you need to move 1m to the left or to the right. It doesn't matter, play better. 

 

 

 

On 03/05/2023 at 17:52, ducavis said:

Giroud only managed to hit 11 Serie A goals last season & hasn’t hit 10 this season. Fans keep forgetting his legs were gone and he struggled with the pace of the league. Aubameyang as crap as he has been is a much better player presently, but his legs are gone also. 

 

We would never have been option in the summer, it was a once in a lifetime deal. Players with his profile don’t come around often;  if you ask most opposition fans which 1 player in our team they would like on their team, 9 out of 10 would go for Enzo. He is currently been used as a “6” when ideally he should be playing as a LCM, it’s like buying a Ferrari & using it off road. 

Giroud had more to his game than just goals though, he brought others into the game and had elite hold up play. Without his goals Aubameyang is absolutely useless on a football pitch.

On 03/05/2023 at 16:36, Sconnie Blue said:

Rice is so elite, hilarious that people hate him because he's English and doesn't have a fancy name. Every team in the world would have him in a heart beat.

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Rice is so elite, hilarious that people hate him because he's English and doesn't have a fancy name. Every team in the world would have him in a heart beat.

People hate Rice? Because he is English? What are you even on about.

12 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

People hate Rice? Because he is English? What are you even on about.

Head on over to talk Chelsea forums, you will see 🤣🤣

29 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

People hate Rice? Because he is English? What are you even on about.

Do you go on any Chelsea forum or social media?

Edit: In fact, just go look at 90% of the drivel Gol posts here.

Edited May 5, 20233 yr by RIP Mourinho

Yeah you could make a point that Rice has the standout metrics. Caicedo better in possession but a lot has to do with De Zerbi's football. 

 

Rice is overrated as hell, and it has nothing to do with where he's from. End of.

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Rice is overrated as hell, and it has nothing to do with where he's from. End of.

This doesn't look like a £100M player to me either LOL.

My eyes have told me the same thing whenever I've watched him for West Ham or England.

£100M of pretty average midfielder ... 

50 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Rice is overrated as hell, and it has nothing to do with where he's from. End of.

Rice or Jorginho? Who would you prefer in the first team?

56 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

This doesn't look like a £100M player to me either LOL.

My eyes have told me the same thing whenever I've watched him for West Ham or England.

£100M of pretty average midfielder ... 

Those metrics are ideally what we are looking for regarding a compatriot next to Enzo. Great interceptor of the ball and tackler. Good metrics when on the ball, and with him next to Enzo he doesn't have to worry about being the only midfield outlet during build up. 

 

Edited May 5, 20233 yr by Sconnie Blue

12 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Do you go on any Chelsea forum or social media?

Edit: In fact, just go look at 90% of the drivel Gol posts here.

Not really, no. Apart from some Chelsea Youtubers (like for example Younes) every now and then.

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Rice is overrated as hell, and it has nothing to do with where he's from. End of.

I don`t really understand the "people hate Rice because he is English" narrative either. Seems like a lot of bollox to me. Nobody would have said something like that about John Terry or Frank Lampard. Or even about some of our rival players like Ferdinand, Gerrard etc. 

9 hours ago, reparto corse said:

I don`t really understand the "people hate Rice because he is English" narrative either. Seems like a lot of bollox to me. Nobody would have said something like that about John Terry or Frank Lampard. Or even about some of our rival players like Ferdinand, Gerrard etc. 

No one says it about Reece James either.

In short it's a deflection tactic for when English players get deserved criticism. I use to get the same crap thrown in my direction when I dared critisize Gary Cahill. The narrative people would have a different opinion on the same player if their name was bit more fancy is borderline offensive.

Edited May 6, 20233 yr by Argo

1 hour ago, Argo said:

No one says it about Reece James either.

In short it's a deflection tactic for when English players get deserved criticism. I use to get the same crap thrown in my direction when I dared critisize Gary Cahill. The narrative people would have a different opinion on the same player if their name was bit more fancy is borderline offensive.

The fact is that there can be many reasons why the market price for players is inflated. Players from the top5 leagues -and English players most of all because the PL is the biggest league in the world- cost more on the transfer market than Lithuanians because of marketing reasons, same goes for tournament winners or certain South American "flair" players (Rodrygo compared to Richarlison). If a club decides to buy such a player he will be scrutinized more than others simply because of his higher value, this is nothing new. Is that fair to the player? Not exactly. It's also not fair that a player that's just as good as him but from the "wrong" country will earn less and won't even get the opportunities to (consistently 😂) fail at like Maguire has at Manure.

Personally, I prefer paying less for a player that performs similarly and is not as marketable, so I'd skip Rice even though I think highly of him. Same as I would've skipped Enzo since this winter was probably when his price was inflated the most ever and will only go down now that we've bought him. I still believe he isn't special enough to build a team around him, but that's what he apparently actually needs. People here are seriously contemplating spending another 100M to accommodate a player that already cost 100M. It's mad. I can't prove it yet, but I'm convinced the next few seasons and results will prove me right, sadly.

Mind you, this is not Enzo's fault -same as it isn't Maguire's-, but the American ownership that was stupid enough to pay that much.

I don’t think he is playing with full confidence.. his signature one touch switch of play were missing.. only once attempted that during the match yesterday..

without that there is no difference in his and Jorgi’s game. I hope next season with a fresh start it returns for him.

2 hours ago, Jangz said:

I don’t think he is playing with full confidence.. his signature one touch switch of play were missing.. only once attempted that during the match yesterday..

without that there is no difference in his and Jorgi’s game. I hope next season with a fresh start it returns for him.

I don't think he's missed any game since he came to the club, maybe he needs to sit the next one out.